New tilefish, new flukes?

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Another ruby rally bath today completed. Does his right gill look kind of swollen?

I'm not sure if I'm actually seeing much improvement, and if I should try something else. He's been handling the baths really well.

He's still eating and swimming around a bit, but he does rest a lot and the breathing is still somewhat labored.

Sorry - it does look like the eye infection is getting worse. Ruby reef is more of a mild antiseptic than an antibiotic.

 

[christinna77]

Sorry - it does look like the eye infection is getting worse. Ruby reef is more of a mild antiseptic than an antibiotic.

What do you recommend here?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

What do you recommend here?

What true antibiotics have you tried? I often suggest erythromycin (Maracyn 1) for eye infections.

 

[christinna77]

What do you recommend here?

What true antibiotics have you tried? I often suggest erythromycin (Maracyn 1) for eye infections.

Thank you. So far I've done NFG in the tank and ruby rally baths. I was also able to get my hands on cipro today, which I was going to try as a bath.

I have erythromycin on hand. At this point, do you think this is still an eye infection or is it more likely damage left over from the previous severe head wound that spread to the eye and got infected? I'm trying to figure out whether treating it with erythromycin would still make sense here.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thank you. So far I've done NFG in the tank and ruby rally baths. I was also able to get my hands on cipro today, which I was going to try as a bath.

I have erythromycin on hand. At this point, do you think this is still an eye infection or is it more likely damage left over from the previous severe head wound that spread to the eye and got infected? I'm trying to figure out whether treating it with erythromycin would still make sense here.

I’d try erythromycin and cipro, I think there is some active bacteria here…..maybe erythromycin in the tank and cipro as a bath?

 

[christinna77]

Thank you. So far I've done NFG in the tank and ruby rally baths. I was also able to get my hands on cipro today, which I was going to try as a bath.

I have erythromycin on hand. At this point, do you think this is still an eye infection or is it more likely damage left over from the previous severe head wound that spread to the eye and got infected? I'm trying to figure out whether treating it with erythromycin would still make sense here.

I’d try erythromycin and cipro, I think there is some active bacteria here…..maybe erythromycin in the tank and cipro as a bath?

Sounds good, I'll try that, thank you! I'm going to do a Cipro bath today, and set up my hospital tank again for erythromycin tomorrow, then continue with Cipro baths every day as well. They're in the observation tank now, so I don't wanna dose there.

I'm really glad he's so interested in food again. I'm feeding every 2-3 hours and he slurps it all up, so whatever bloating or constipation he's had before seems to be mostly resolved now.

 

[christinna77]

@Jay Hemdal is it possible that the larger tilefish still has flukes even though the smaller one was 100% clear during the last diagnostic FW dip I did a few days ago? I noticed the larger one's head twitching, but I can't tell if it's just irritation from the infection or if he could still have flukes.

Have you ever seen one fish be completely clear while the other is still infected? I'm thinking about doing a skin swab from the larger one, and checking it under a microscope, as I'm afraid to do a FW dip on him.

 

[Arose231]

@christinna77 looking at what happened you were better of just doing prazi pro or api general cure and 14 days copper this in my is the best qt method. Hypo unfortunately is outdated and proven strains of ich do exist. At least with praziquantal after 2-3 courses the flukes will be gone

 

[christinna77]

@christinna77 looking at what happened you were better of just doing prazi pro or api general cure and 14 days copper this in my is the best qt method. Hypo unfortunately is outdated and proven strains of ich do exist. At least with praziquantal after 2-3 courses the flukes will be gone

If you read my whole thread, you'll see that I went through three doses of GC and two doses of pure prazi, and they all failed before I went hypo. And from what I've seen, Neobenedenia flukes are notoriously hard to clear with prazi.

Also, copper does nothing to flukes.

 

[christinna77]

I don't have a Gram stain kit, but I tried taking a swab anyway. I gently touched the infected area with a cotton swab and looked at it under the microscope.

I was wondering if any of these could be harmful. The first long one especially freaked me out a bit, and the smaller ones were moving really fast.

 

[Arose231]

If you read my whole thread, you'll see that I went through three doses of GC and two doses of pure prazi, and they all failed before I went hypo. And from what I've seen, Neobenedenia flukes are notoriously hard to clear with prazi.

Also, copper does nothing to flukes.

@christinna77 copper for ich and velvet not flukes. That’s unfortunate to hear. How long has your qt been running for? The prazi should have done its job you are probably dealing with something else not sure what those are in the microscope @Jay Hemdal might know what those are.

 

[christinna77]

If you read my whole thread, you'll see that I went through three doses of GC and two doses of pure prazi, and they all failed before I went hypo. And from what I've seen, Neobenedenia flukes are notoriously hard to clear with prazi.

Also, copper does nothing to flukes.

@christinna77 copper for ich and velvet not flukes. That’s unfortunate to hear. How long has your qt been running for? The prazi should have done its job you are probably dealing with something else not sure what those are in the microscope @Jay Hemdal might know what those are.

No, it was definitely flukes. They were already confirmed through a FW dip earlier in the thread. I'm familiar with how quarantine and copper works as well.

I appreciate you trying to help, but please read the full thread before offering a diagnosis or asking questions that have already been answered.

At this point, I'm mainly looking for input from Jay and the other fish medics regarding any treatment suggestions and microscope findings.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

@Jay Hemdal is it possible that the larger tilefish still has flukes even though the smaller one was 100% clear during the last diagnostic FW dip I did a few days ago? I noticed the larger one's head twitching, but I can't tell if it's just irritation from the infection or if he could still have flukes.

Have you ever seen one fish be completely clear while the other is still infected? I'm thinking about doing a skin swab from the larger one, and checking it under a microscope, as I'm afraid to do a FW dip on him.

It’s possible that it still has flukes, but having one fish in the tank be cleared of flukes, but the other not be is impossible - both would reinfected if flukes survived the treatment(s). If that happened, one may just have more symptoms than the other at the moment.

I would NOT do a skin scrape - you have to hold the fish and really scrape it in order to find any flukes. One benefit of skin scrapes is that any flukes will still be alive, so their motion makes it easier to see them under the microscope.

FW dips work, but some species of fluke get so distorted that they are tough to recognize under the microscope. Formalin dips distort less, but I don’t suggest using that in homes.

I see you later posted some images - I’ll go look at them now…..

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I don't have a Gram stain kit, but I tried taking a swab anyway. I gently touched the infected area with a cotton swab and looked at it under the microscope.

I was wondering if any of these could be harmful. The first long one especially freaked me out a bit, and the smaller ones were moving really fast.

Can you describe the method you used to get this swab? Free swimming protozoans are rare to see directly on fish.

The microscope3 image *could* be Uronema. That feeds on bacteria, so its presence would indicate a bacterial infection.

 

[christinna77]

I don't have a Gram stain kit, but I tried taking a swab anyway. I gently touched the infected area with a cotton swab and looked at it under the microscope.

I was wondering if any of these could be harmful. The first long one especially freaked me out a bit, and the smaller ones were moving really fast.

Can you describe the method you used to get this swab? Free swimming protozoans are rare to see directly on fish.

The microscope3 image *could* be Uronema. That feeds on bacteria, so its presence would indicate a bacterial infection.

Thank you! Does uronema feed on any bacteria, or is it usually gram positive/gram negative ones?

I grabbed a cotton swab, lifted him up out of the water for a second before his cipro bath, and gently rolled it over the infected area, and then rolled it again over the slide. I didn't press hard or anything as I was afraid to make it worse.

 

[christinna77]

@Jay Hemdal is it possible that the larger tilefish still has flukes even though the smaller one was 100% clear during the last diagnostic FW dip I did a few days ago? I noticed the larger one's head twitching, but I can't tell if it's just irritation from the infection or if he could still have flukes.

Have you ever seen one fish be completely clear while the other is still infected? I'm thinking about doing a skin swab from the larger one, and checking it under a microscope, as I'm afraid to do a FW dip on him.

It’s possible that it still has flukes, but having one fish in the tank be cleared of flukes, but the other not be is impossible - both would reinfected if flukes survived the treatment(s). If that happened, one may just have more symptoms than the other at the moment.

I would NOT do a skin scrape - you have to hold the fish and really scrape it in order to find any flukes. One benefit of skin scrapes is that any flukes will still be alive, so their motion makes it easier to see them under the microscope.

FW dips work, but some species of fluke get so distorted that they are tough to recognize under the microscope. Formalin dips distort less, but I don’t suggest using that in homes.

I see you later posted some images - I’ll go look at them now…..

I'm doing a water change today, so the plan is to FW dip the smaller tilefish again and check if any flukes at all come out. I only went a bit over 3m last time, so now I wonder if they can hold on longer, and that's why I didn't see any.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thank you! Does uronema feed on any bacteria, or is it usually gram positive/gram negative ones?

I grabbed a cotton swab, lifted him up out of the water for a second before his cipro bath, and gently rolled it over the infected area, and then rolled it again over the slide. I didn't press hard or anything as I was afraid to make it worse.

I’m not sure what bacteria they feed on, but most external marine fish pathogens are gram negative.

 

[Arose231]

No, it was definitely flukes. They were already confirmed through a FW dip earlier in the thread. I'm familiar with how quarantine and copper works as well.

I appreciate you trying to help, but please read the full thread before offering a diagnosis or asking questions that have already been answered.

At this point, I'm mainly looking for input from Jay and the other fish medics regarding any treatment suggestions and microscope findings.

This is why I litteraly mentioned jay but I guess you’re the one who can’t read . You do not have flukes anymore your diagnosis is wrong

 

[Arose231]

I'm doing a water change today, so the plan is to FW dip the smaller tilefish again and check if any flukes at all come out. I only went a bit over 3m last time, so now I wonder if they can hold on longer, and that's why I didn't see any.

Go ahead keep doing freshwater dips and hypo keep stressing your fish out that’s all your doing

 

[Arose231]

@Jay Hemdal it’s hilarious they think it’s flukes after multiple prazi treatments and even hypo that would not be possible. Unless there qt has been constantly running and the bactiera was consuming the prazi.