Newcomer questions

[keddre]

I have been in the fresh water hobby a while but want to start a fishless nano with feather dusters out of my old ten gallon tank. Here is my current questions.

1) deep sand bed. In fw we use black worms and trumpet snails to move the lower sand bed, what do you use in saltwater? For a tank that small, can I get away with play sand or should I use live sand no matter what?

2) rocks. Do I need live rock, or can I use lava rock?

3) circulation. I have a 160 gph power head that can convert into a 750gph circulation pump. Which mode should I use? I keep reading that saltwater tanks need a lot of current but can't find any numbers.

Thank you

 

[LBehr]

First off in saltwater the more water the easier the tank is to keep stable

1. Don't know exact answer to first question I feel like most people use crushed coral or reef sand because it looks more authentic also if you try play sand just make sure you rinse it well. Also there are snails and stuff you can get to mix sand or you can just gravel vac regularly.
2. You don't have to use live rock you just need something providing surface area for bacteria to live on. If you don't use live rock or live sand cycling may be more of a process since you wont have any bacteria to begin with. Make sure you research nitrogen cycle it is way more involved in SW than FW.
3. For flow I've always heard about 10 times water volume

 

[keddre]

Thanks for your info. Since I only have the ten, I'm not going to be using fish since this is my first tank. I guess I should use live rock and the reason I asked about play sand is because that's what I have in there now from my first tank. And thanks so I'll just use my 160 power head

 

[Vance]

Play sand tends to have a high silica content, will lead to algae issues later on. Stick with an aragonite (calcium carbonate). Dry or live, doesn't matter IMO, will be seeded with small scavengers and detritrivours eventually anyway.

Dont think live rock is a necessity, you wont have any fish, so your bioload will be minimal. Be careful with lava rock though, have heard stories of it leaching nasty stuff into the water. Remember copper in any amount is fatal to inverts!

Flow wise I think the dusters should be relatively undemanding. With no fish or corals you can really break a lot of the rules "required" from a typical reef tank.

 

[DannyB]

1. I have heard, not sure how true, that some play sand is treated to keep the sandbox from getting nasty stuff growing in it. You could go bare bottom to start with.
2. Lava rock is not very porous and therefore has way less surface area than live or dry rock. My recommendation would be to use dry rock, less chance of nuisance pests/algae.
3. agreed 10x water volume

 

[keddre]

Alright. So it's looking like lava rock is out the picture, I'll just go with live rock as it's only a quarter a pound.
I'll also go with a couple inches of live sand. Thanks everyone

 

[keddre]

Okay I'm back. My tank is up and running. Four days ago I added my 2 in of sand and saltwater with the heater and power head. Today I added 5 lbs of "cured live rock" that had a couple sponges and some strings on it. A guy at the lfs helped me with choosing what was right for my tank and how much rock to get, then told me to come back in two weeks so he can test my water for me.

My question: am I good or should I do anything during those two weeks to help the process? I have seen many differing and contradicting methods online.

 

[Vance]

Still no plans for fish? Nope just sit back and watch the bugs populate the tank.

 

[Duke4Life]

Have any flake or pellet food, piece of raw seafood? If so add a small amount to ghost feed the tank to help populate the good bacteria.

 

[keddre]

Vance > No, I might get a flame scallop or sponge in a couple months when my dsb establishes though. From what I read, they shouldn't be harder than my freshwater filter feeders.

Duke > I have freshwater flake food for my other tanks, but the owner of the pet store store said that was making it worse not helping. That is how I cycle my freshwater tanks though, is it the same idea?

 

[Duke4Life]

Vance > No, I might get a flame scallop or sponge in a couple months when my dsb establishes though. From what I read, they shouldn't be harder than my freshwater filter feeders.

Duke > I have freshwater flake food for my other tanks, but the owner of the pet store store said that was making it worse not helping. That is how I cycle my freshwater tanks though, is it the same idea?

Yes. I used this method on mine after reading what others have done. I do this to my qt at the moment since there's no fish.

 

[jamie callard]

Just so you know dsb is not 2" it is 5" to 7"
Red reef sells a kit that can help cycle the tank but saltwater is all about being patient so i would recomend letting it do its thing. I would get your own kit to test and record the results to see the trend as 2 weeks you may miss needed numbers.

 

[keddre]

Duke > alright, thanks for the help

Jamie > alright thanks, With my next paycheck I plan on getting another bag. I knew 2" was short, but I also thought it was 3-4", has no clue it was 5". Just to start the cycle, I had intentionally cut it short.

 

[Duke4Life]

Duke > alright, thanks for the help

Jamie > alright thanks, With my next paycheck I plan on getting another bag. I knew 2" was short, but I also thought it was 3-4", has no clue it was 5". Just to start the cycle, I had intentionally cut it short.

I've started to add more as well, been up since May. Get a piece of pvc and funnel to help add, less cloudy.

 

[Vance]

I'm sorry. I'm gonna have to disagree with what's being said here. You are never going to feed this tank... Light and photosynthesis is going to be your only energy input long term into this system, so there is no need to try and build up bacterial populations thats just gonna die back when you stop ghost feeding.

I agree with Jamie that a dsb is 4+ inches of sand. But that logic is based off creating anaerobic zones (no oxygen) for denitrifying bacteria, while you are talking about zooplankton production to feed your filter feeders. All those organisms need o2 and can reproduce in under an inch of sand. Now I'm not sure what your detritus production will be with no feedings or no heavy consumers, but be aware that a 2" sandbed has the potential to become a nutrient/detritus sink, so keep an eye on what builds up in it and be prepared to remove some sand if need be.

flame scallops have a dismal survival rate in captivity... And sponges aren't really recommended for beginners. You said your rock was cured and has sponges? Just let those grow. You will have things popping up on that rock you didn't think possible for months after your cycle. Some of my favorite macro algaes and critters just showed up one day without me adding them.

My honest opinion... Patience. Stick with your original plan, it was solid and well thought out. Nothing good in this hobby happens fast. Patience patience patience. Your off to a great start keep asking questions!

 

[keddre]

Thanks Vance. Two questions: by detrious sink, do you mean it will just sit there?

For anyone, a red worm swimming around? It disappeared, but next time I see it, I will take a picture

 

[Vance]

kind of... It builds up and releases nutrients back into the water fueling algae growth.

 

[keddre]

Oh okay, I get what you are saying. As far as the worm, those are not it. I have not seen it in the past hour, but it looked like a pale blood worm

 

[Vance]

Segmented? Free swimming? Or did it look dead caught in a current? If it was swimming what was its swimming style? Some will spin like a corkscrew, others like a snake. It is possible a nonmotile worm bailed out of its tube because of your cycle.

 

[keddre]

Nevermind, it was the first picture you posted. This is the actual one in my tank, seems like it's only that one though.
From a quick Google search it seems like they are called bristle worms and are harmless. Thanks everyone, now it's just time to wait.