nItRaTeS: I hates them! Help!

[whitecloud]

I cannot get my nitrates below 30, ranges from 30-40 (has been as high as 80) - testing with Hanna and results verified similar with Fauna Marin ICP. I know that ‘30 ain’t so bad’ but with all that we are doing, and stopping just one thing causes it to skyrocket

I have a tank that is 1 year and 3 months old:
-60 gallon breeder with HOB overflow
-20 gallon long Sump with:
-2 filter socks (changed out every other day)
-Bubble Magus Curve 5 skimmer
-12 x 12 inch Refugium with fast growing Chaeto (light cycle 24 hour as shorter makes nitrate climb)
Caribsea mineral mud 1.5 inches with 1/2 sand
on top
-Return section with a Jebao return pump
-2 Polyp Lab Bio Bricks (one in refugium area and One in the back of return pump area surrounded by live rock (for lowest flow areas)
Marine Pure Bio Balls in sock section and a few in baffle area
Lifeguard small Bio pellet reactor with recommend 200ml TLF NPX bio pellets
- 1.5 inch Caribsea special grade Reef sand
- Nero 5 Wavemaker
- heater keeping tank 77-78
- large amount of live rock close to 50-60lbs at least


Dosing:
-1ml Tropic Marin Elimina NP for carbon dosing (max dose for water volume)
-10ml Fusion 1 and Fusion 2 (keeping Alk at 8 and Calcium at 450 and Mg at 1350)
-5ml NeoPhos (to get some kind of reading for phosphate or it would be zero, ranges 0.03-0.05
-trying bottle of every bacteria, one at a time: Microbacter7, Microbacter Clean, Dr Tim’s waste away, PNS Deep Cycle, just started Microbacter ‘M’ Purple

Fish: moderately stocked with 2 damsels, 1 clown fairy wrasse, indigo Dottyback, small Bristletooth tang, 1 benghi Cardinal, diamond goby. All fish are thriving, no deaths.

Feeding: down to 1 cube of Hikari frozen brine or Mysis once a day…fish seem starved

Mixed reef with soft, LPS and a few SPS, mostly zoas. Most corals doing well…struggle with Acans.

Mix of snails, inverts, 3 shrimp and 1 tuxedo urchin

Trying a media reactor with SeaChem De-Nitrate

Weekly to twice a week water changes: 15 gallons at a time with Reef Crystals salt

We can’t keep up with doing all this and all the water changes. We are hoping that ‘something’ will just work for nitrates, and you see…all this is just keeping things at max.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I seem to have incorporated 15 years of reef2reef collective knowledge and implemented them all just to keep nitrates from going out of control.

Can’t do a deep sandbed as the tank is only 16 inches tall.

Just at our wits end! Is there anything we are missing??

 

[Spare time]

Have you tried a second test kit?

 

[whitecloud]

Yes…2 different Hanna checkers, ICP reports similar results, and we have used the API as well…which lands us in that range

 

[reefpanda]

Can you try a few days without the socks then test and see?

 

[whitecloud]

We had

Can you try a few days without the socks then test and see?

That we have never tried before. We have a large amount socks, we do wash them in the washer with hot water and a little bit of bleach, with extra rinse cycle and they do look very clean each time. Might be worth a try…we have only ever shortened the time we change the socks…now every other day, so that nothing breaks down, even though they are mostly clean when we change them

 

[whitecloud]

We are even trying the AI in the new Reefability app. The AI offered guidance that seemed contrary to what I know about the BioPellet reactor, it recommend to INCREASE the flow, which seemed wrong…but we did it…and nitrates went higher. From my understanding you keep at a slow tumble, as faster will break down the desired biofilm for bacteria to grow on.

(get a load of that N:P ratio - 995:1)

 

[DanP-SD]

All your biological filtration media is likely acting as a nitrate factory — processing ammonia and nitrite into nitrate highly efficiently. Your summary doesn’t mention how much live rock you have but, if you have about 1-2 lbs per gallon of good quality live rock, it is ample media for your biological filtration. Unless you have a tremendous bioload that necessitates so much biological filtration, which it doesn’t sound like you do, I would start reducing the bio balls, bio bricks and biopellets - gradually over a couple weeks. Your live rock should take over. If you have enough live rock, you shouldn’t need any other biological filtration. The advantage to letting your rock and sand handle the biological filtration is the presence of some anaerobic zones which will help reduce the net output of nitrate.

That should go a long way toward reducing your active production of nitrates. The fact that you’ve been running a nitrate factory for a while means you’ll still have built up nitrate, some of which will be stored in your sand bed and rock. As you lower the nitrate level in the water column, locked up nitrate in the rock and sand may leach back into the water. If so, you would likely see the level initially drop when you cut back the biological filtration but then stubbornly hold its ground. At that point, you can try being very proactive with water changes to keep diluting it or, if it’s really persistent, gradually changing out some rock and sand.

Throughout, I would keep your chaeto going and maybe lengthen the light cycle. Harvest often. It should grow like a weed but is a good nitrate remover.

 

[Matt L]

Is there a particular problem that you think the nitrate is causing? The most effective method for nitrate control in my tanks is an algae scrubber.

 

[whitecloud]

All your biological filtration media is likely acting as a nitrate factory — processing ammonia and nitrite into nitrate highly efficiently. Your summary doesn’t mention how much live rock you have but, if you have about 1-2 lbs per gallon of good quality live rock, it is ample media for your biological filtration. Unless you have a tremendous bioload that necessitates so much biological filtration, which it doesn’t sound like you do, I would start reducing the bio balls, bio bricks and biopellets - gradually over a couple weeks. Your live rock should take over. If you have enough live rock, you shouldn’t need any other biological filtration. The advantage to letting your rock and sand handle the biological filtration is the presence of some anaerobic zones which will help reduce the net output of nitrate.

That should go a long way toward reducing your active production of nitrates. The fact that you’ve been running a nitrate factory for a while means you’ll still have built up nitrate, some of which will be stored in your sand bed and rock. As you lower the nitrate level in the water column, locked up nitrate in the rock and sand may leach back into the water. If so, you would likely see the level initially drop when you cut back the biological filtration but then stubbornly hold its ground. At that point, you can try being very proactive with water changes to keep diluting it or, if it’s really persistent, gradually changing out some rock and sand.

Throughout, I would keep your chaeto going and maybe lengthen the light cycle. Harvest often. It should grow like a weed but is a good nitrate remover.

There is at least 50-60lbs in the display, and another 10lbs or so in the refugium. We only added the additional biomedia (bricks first, then marine pure bioballs) to keep it from going higher than 40. Chaeto is harvested weekly, it come out almost cube shaped, very green and healthy. It does not tumble but we flip it through the week.

On other thing I did not mention is that the source water in a 5 stage Rodi unit that has an inline TDS that reads 0. The last ICP about a month ago tested the RODI and there was nothing it in…’n.d.’ For ‘not detected’ for all elements tested.

 

[whitecloud]

As far as ‘problems’, I think we are holding the nitrates just back enough (or maybe the phosphate is not high enough) for any major algae issues, we do have ‘green film’ on the glass that need to be scraped off once or twice a day…but it is not awful. No green hair/bryopsis or alage on the rocks…the Bristletooth or urchin take care of what little there might be.

 

[Subsea]

I second the use of ATS. I would discontinue bacteria in a bottle.

 

[CHSUB]

No easy answer imo, during WC concentrate of detritus removal with blowing rocks and lightly vacuuming sand, feed only brine and pellets which are higher in po4, insure po4 is readable at all times, add more fast growing leather corals, and live with the higher reading.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There are many good ways to reduce nutrients, but there’s no emergency, IMO. Some great tanks have much higher nitrate.

 

[DanyL]

We are even trying the AI in the new Reefability app. The AI offered guidance that seemed contrary to what I know about the BioPellet reactor, it recommend to INCREASE the flow, which seemed wrong…but we did it…and nitrates went higher. From my understanding you keep at a slow tumble, as faster will break down the desired biofilm for bacteria to grow on.

(get a load of that N:p ratio - 995:1)

You want it tumble somewhat fast for it to “throw” the bacteria off of the media and outside the reactor, making space for new bacteria to settle.

One important thing I see a lot miss when using Biopellets is the fact that its output needs to be directed right into the skimmers intake, which creates the aggressive export Biopellets is known for.

I can’t see how it’s been setup in your sump, but make sure you haven’t miss this step.

Also another thing to point out about Biopellets is that it takes awhile to establish it, usually somewhere between 2-4 weeks.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

One cube for your 7 fish is a big part of the problem.... I take the one cube and divide it among 4 tanks and 20 fish, and I promise I still throw quite a bit away. I feed 3-4 times a day, but much smaller amounts than you. So most of your one cube is going uneaten and end up rotting in the water. You have a very small clean up crew, no hermits or shrimps to eat the uneaten food. I also rinse out my cube before I feed it. And I feel like your curve 5 is a little undersized for your tank, I use the curve 5 on my 40 gallon.

Its all about import vs export, I feel there is too much import for just 7 fish, it exceeds the export ability. IMO. good luck

 

[whitecloud]

You want it tumble somewhat fast for it to “throw” the bacteria off of the media and outside the reactor, making space for new bacteria to settle.

One important thing I see a lot miss when using Biopellets is the fact that its output needs to be directed right into the skimmers intake, which creates the aggressive export Biopellets is known for.

I can’t see how it’s been setup in your sump, but make sure you haven’t miss this step.

Also another thing to point out about Biopellets is that it takes awhile to establish it, usually somewhere between 2-4 weeks.

Not currently at the tank, but to line up the output with the skimmer input is why I went with the side output version of the media reactor, the output is lined up within 1 inch of the skimmer input.

Believe or not, the biopellet reactor was a ‘valentines day present’, so slowly added the pellets over the 2 week time frame as recommended, but has been running with all pellets for 8 weeks now’s.

I will get video of the tumbling to see if more or less is needed.

 

[DanP-SD]

There is at least 50-60lbs in the display, and another 10lbs or so in the refugium. We only added the additional biomedia (bricks first, then marine pure bioballs) to keep it from going higher than 40. Chaeto is harvested weekly, it come out almost cube shaped, very green and healthy. It does not tumble but we flip it through the week.

On other thing I did not mention is that the source water in a 5 stage Rodi unit that has an inline TDS that reads 0. The last ICP about a month ago tested the RODI and there was nothing it in…’n.d.’ For ‘not detected’ for all elements tested.

The RO water is not the problem. It seems like you’re either generating or leaching nitrates. Was the live rock dry or live when you started? If it was dry did you try soaking it in RO water a few days and testing the water? Some hobbyists will do that and won’t add the rock to the tank until the water tests clean.

I think the most likely culprit is the bioballs or bricks. They’re better at turning ammonia into nitrate than removing nitrate.

 

[Lavey29]

There is nothing wrong with 35 nitrates if your tank is not displaying significant issues.

 

[legionofdoon]

https://www.aquamaxxaquariums.com/ts-3-sulfur-denitrator This is what I went with. My nitrates were significantly higher though. I agree with what others have said, if your tank is fine let it be, and from my experience bio blocks are nitrate factories unless you have really slow the flow through them.

 

[BlackGoldReefs]

I cannot get my nitrates below 30, ranges from 30-40 (has been as high as 80) - testing with Hanna and results verified similar with Fauna Marin ICP. I know that ‘30 ain’t so bad’ but with all that we are doing, and stopping just one thing causes it to skyrocket

I have a tank that is 1 year and 3 months old:
-60 gallon breeder with HOB overflow
-20 gallon long Sump with:
-2 filter socks (changed out every other day)
-Bubble Magus Curve 5 skimmer
-12 x 12 inch Refugium with fast growing Chaeto (light cycle 24 hour as shorter makes nitrate climb)
Caribsea mineral mud 1.5 inches with 1/2 sand
on top
-Return section with a Jebao return pump
-2 Polyp Lab Bio Bricks (one in refugium area and One in the back of return pump area surrounded by live rock (for lowest flow areas)
Marine Pure Bio Balls in sock section and a few in baffle area
Lifeguard small Bio pellet reactor with recommend 200ml TLF NPX bio pellets
- 1.5 inch Caribsea special grade Reef sand
- Nero 5 Wavemaker
- heater keeping tank 77-78
- large amount of live rock close to 50-60lbs at least


Dosing:
-1ml Tropic Marin Elimina NP for carbon dosing (max dose for water volume)
-10ml Fusion 1 and Fusion 2 (keeping Alk at 8 and Calcium at 450 and Mg at 1350)
-5ml NeoPhos (to get some kind of reading for phosphate or it would be zero, ranges 0.03-0.05
-trying bottle of every bacteria, one at a time: Microbacter7, Microbacter Clean, Dr Tim’s waste away, PNS Deep Cycle, just started Microbacter ‘M’ Purple

Fish: moderately stocked with 2 damsels, 1 clown fairy wrasse, indigo Dottyback, small Bristletooth tang, 1 benghi Cardinal, diamond goby. All fish are thriving, no deaths.

Feeding: down to 1 cube of Hikari frozen brine or Mysis once a day…fish seem starved

Mixed reef with soft, LPS and a few SPS, mostly zoas. Most corals doing well…struggle with Acans.

Mix of snails, inverts, 3 shrimp and 1 tuxedo urchin

Trying a media reactor with SeaChem De-Nitrate

Weekly to twice a week water changes: 15 gallons at a time with Reef Crystals salt

We can’t keep up with doing all this and all the water changes. We are hoping that ‘something’ will just work for nitrates, and you see…all this is just keeping things at max.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I seem to have incorporated 15 years of reef2reef collective knowledge and implemented them all just to keep nitrates from going out of control.

Can’t do a deep sandbed as the tank is only 16 inches tall.

Just at our wits end! Is there anything we are missing??

sound to me like you have decaying matter in your thank. I would stop the bottle dosing over the next few days or week. Also the biopellet realtor could add to the issues. When you do your water changes are you touching the sand bed?
I would also pull the bio bricks, balls etc and give them a good rinse in RO water, you have something dead somewhere for them to be that high. The beneficial bacteria lives deep in the rocks and bio media and the crude of will only help. When you do that check your sump for dead creatures. I leaning towards decaying livestock somewhen on the tank. Lastly when you do water changes syphon 25% of your sand bed over the next four water changes. Don’t try to do it all at once you’ll stir up to much funk and gunk of the bottom of the tank.