nItRaTeS: I hates them! Help!

[whitecloud]

No change this week. Nitrate was 31, and was 30.5 last week. 25% water change on Sunday. It is stable, but not going down. I tested nitrite, just to see if the bio media was causing nitrite factory and causing an artificially high reading of Nitrate with the Hannah checker.

Please see video of the biopellets…thoughts? Too slow, too fast, or just right? Also note that the outlet for the biopellets is right next to the skimmer intake, as that is what I believe it should be.



I have a mini reactor with Seachem De-Nitrate which has been running for 3 weeks…will need another 3-4 weeks to see results from my understanding. Flow is very slow at about 10 gallons/hr in an effort to make an anaerobic environment. Tested nitrite which was 0, and nitrate out of efflux just slightly lower than the tank at 29.5. The efflux water does not smell of rotten eggs so the flow is not slow enough to worry about anoxic conditions with hydrogens sulfide formations

 

[X-37B]

I run a no3 sulfer reactor on my display. I feed heavy and keep no3 at <5 with little effort. It is currently keeping my systems no3 at 2.
Small reactor, Kamoer pump, and some sulfer media is all thats needed. Very simple, imo, way to keep no3 where you want them.

 

[whitecloud]

I run a no3 sulfer reactor on my display. I feed heavy and keep no3 at <5 with little effort. It is currently keeping my systems no3 at 2.
Small reactor, Kamoer pump, and some sulfer media is all thats needed. Very simple, imo, way to keep no3 where you want them.

I have not been able to find much on sulfur denitrators. I can see only one marketed for purchase and that is like $500. Any chance you can send pics and details of what you have purchased for set this up? This sounds exciting!

 

[DanP-SD]

No change this week. Nitrate was 31, and was 30.5 last week. 25% water change on Sunday. It is stable, but not going down. I tested nitrite, just to see if the bio media was causing nitrite factory and causing an artificially high reading of Nitrate with the Hannah checker.

Please see video of the biopellets…thoughts? Too slow, too fast, or just right? Also note that the outlet for the biopellets is right next to the skimmer intake, as that is what I believe it should be.



I have a mini reactor with Seachem De-Nitrate which has been running for 3 weeks…will need another 3-4 weeks to see results from my understanding. Flow is very slow at about 10 gallons/hr in an effort to make an anaerobic environment. Tested nitrite which was 0, and nitrate out of efflux just slightly lower than the tank at 29.5. The efflux water does not smell of rotten eggs so the flow is not slow enough to worry about anoxic conditions with hydrogens sulfide formations

It’s hard to see the fluidization on the video but when I used a pellet reactor I usually kept it fast enough to keep all pellets in motion but no more. Are you dosing a carbon source other than the pellets themselves? You might try dosing some vinegar or vodka - starting slow and ramping up. The combination of vinegar and pellets can be effective to reduce nitrate.

But based on what you’re seeing — no decrease despite several types of denitrification — suggests you’re manufacturing a lot of nitrate somewhere. If you pull the bio balls and blocks and still have the problem, I would try pulling a small piece of live rock and putting it in a bucket with fresh saltwater (zero nitrate) a small powerhead and a heater and just soak it a few days. If the water has no nitrate at the end, your rock is clean. If it has high nitrates, you have a lot of nitrate locked up in your rock. You could try the same with a sample of sand, the bio blocks and anything else you suspect.

You shouldn’t need to be so proactive in nitrate removal and if you find the source, you should be able to wean off all your denitrification measures.

 

[whitecloud]

It’s hard to see the fluidization on the video but when I used a pellet reactor I usually kept it fast enough to keep all pellets in motion but no more. Are you dosing a carbon source other than the pellets themselves? You might try dosing some vinegar or vodka - starting slow and ramping up. The combination of vinegar and pellets can be effective to reduce nitrate.

But based on what you’re seeing — no decrease despite several types of denitrification — suggests you’re manufacturing a lot of nitrate somewhere. If you pull the bio balls and blocks and still have the problem, I would try pulling a small piece of live rock and putting it in a bucket with fresh saltwater (zero nitrate) a small powerhead and a heater and just soak it a few days. If the water has no nitrate at the end, your rock is clean. If it has high nitrates, you have a lot of nitrate locked up in your rock. You could try the same with a sample of sand, the bio blocks and anything else you suspect.

You shouldn’t need to be so proactive in nitrate removal and if you find the source, you should be able to wean off all your denitrification measures.

I saw that the video doesn’t look very good within the message, if you click on the ‘YouTube’ logo and see the direct video you can see it a more clearly.

I am still dosing max dose (1ml) of Tropic Marin Elimina-NP as a carbon source.

Excellent idea on the rock..we actually did that on the recommendation of our LFS 6 months ago. We did one large rock in a row, and we did find one that had high nitrates in the end, and pulled it. After that we had a few week of 10, and as low as 2, but then nitrates increase slowly up to the current levels…and has been around 30-40 for the last 6 months…hence the reason we keep on adding a nitrate reduction method every 2 months or so.

 

[X-37B]

I have not been able to find much on sulfur denitrators. I can see only one marketed for purchase and that is like $500. Any chance you can send pics and details of what you have purchased for set this up? This sounds exciting!

I run a deltec reactor. A kamoer peristaltic pump and some tubing is all you need. This is mine on my 150.
You can use any media reactor that has hose fittings on the ends.

 

[DanP-SD]

I saw that the video doesn’t look very good within the message, if you click on the ‘YouTube’ logo and see the direct video you can see it a more clearly.

I am still dosing max dose (1ml) of Tropic Marin Elimina-NP as a carbon source.

Excellent idea on the rock..we actually did that on the recommendation of our LFS 6 months ago. We did one large rock in a row, and we did find one that had high nitrates in the end, and pulled it. After that we had a few week of 10, and as low as 2, but then nitrates increase slowly up to the current levels…and has been around 30-40 for the last 6 months…hence the reason we keep on adding a nitrate reduction method every 2 months or so.

If it’s been 6 months, you can all but guarantee the rock and sand have absorbed nitrates and will leach it back into the tank. So I think the key is to eliminate your nitrate factories (balls and blocks), maintain good cleaning/water change practices and be patient.

Your efforts may not show for a while. It’s like opening the windows in a room that’s been closed up for six months with smokers. The rugs and upholstery will make it smell of smoke for a long time. Your rocks and sand will leach nitrate back into the tank for a while.

So, I’d eliminate all sources of excess nitrate, maintain good tank hygiene and look for a trend over several months. Once it starts slowly dropping, you’ll know that you have the nitrate production under control. Then you can try replacing 30% or so of your sand every few weeks. You could also replace some rocks but I’m always reluctant to remove rock once it’s encrusted with coralline and other cool organisms.

The silver lining is your chaeto will continue to to grow well along the way.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, phosphate reversibly binds to calcium carbonate surfaces such as rock and sand, but nitrate does not. :)

 

[DanP-SD]

FWIW, phosphate reversibly binds to calcium carbonate surfaces such as rock and sand, but nitrate does not. :)

Good clarification. I’ve read that before and no doubt it is the case, but then what process causes nitrate to continue to rise when obvious sources like overfeeding or dead organisms are removed? It seems to come from rock and sand that’s been in a high-nitrate environment. Can it be that it’s bound up in organisms and detritus embedded in the rock and sand but just not in the carbonate substrate itself?

 

[whitecloud]

I run a deltec reactor. A kamoer peristaltic pump and some tubing is all you need. This is mine on my 150.
You can use any media reactor that has hose fittings on the ends.

Nice looking setup! I like the continuous duty pump so you don’t need another pump in the sump! What is the rate of water flow that you have it set for?

I see the sulfur, but what are in the other layers, the black on top of the sulfur, then the stuff on top?

Thanks for sharing your setup!

 

[X-37B]

Nice looking setup! I like the continuous duty pump so you don’t need another pump in the sump! What is the rate of water flow that you have it set for?

I see the sulfur, but what are in the other layers, the black on top of the sulfur, then the stuff on top?

Thanks for sharing your setup!

The only objects above the sulfer are bones. Same as I use in my carx. This helps keep the sulfer inplace and may help offset some of the low ph comming out of the reactor. I also drip into bones along with my carx effluent.
Currently running 12mlm.
The bones get dark due to the sulfer.
Same bones in my carx.
Note: It takes around 6 weeks before the reactor starts bringing down no3.

 

[whitecloud]

I run a deltec reactor. A kamoer peristaltic pump and some tubing is all you need. This is mine on my 150.
You can use any media reactor that has hose fittings on the ends.

The only objects above the sulfer are bones. Same as I use in my carx. This helps keep the sulfer inplace and may help offset some of the low ph comming out of the reactor. I also drip into bones along with my carx effluent.
Currently running 12mlm.
The bones get dark due to the sulfer.
Same bones in my carx.
Note: It takes around 6 weeks before the reactor starts bringing down no3.

Since I don’t have a calcium reactor, the bones in the sulfur reactor raise the pH enough not to have to worry about it lowering the pH of the tank?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Good clarification. I’ve read that before and no doubt it is the case, but then what process causes nitrate to continue to rise when obvious sources like overfeeding or dead organisms are removed? It seems to come from rock and sand that’s been in a high-nitrate environment. Can it be that it’s bound up in organisms and detritus embedded in the rock and sand but just not in the carbonate substrate itself?

If there are dead organisms on it, yes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Since I don’t have a calcium reactor, the bones in the sulfur reactor raise the pH enough not to have to worry about it lowering the pH of the tank?

Sulfur reactors either lower alkalinity, or raise calcium (when passed over calcium carbonate), or typically, some of each.

pH will still be depressed, but not as much.

 

[whitecloud]

If there are dead organisms on it, yes.

During weekly water changes, detritus is sucked up from the sand bed, never the whole sandbed, but alternate half of the sand bed each week. The sump is kept very clean and every 1-2 months we use a power head with a vacuum to suck up any detritus that is in there.

 

[legionofdoon]

The only objects above the sulfer are bones. Same as I use in my carx. This helps keep the sulfer inplace and may help offset some of the low ph comming out of the reactor. I also drip into bones along with my carx effluent.
Currently running 12mlm.
The bones get dark due to the sulfer.
Same bones in my carx.
Note: It takes around 6 weeks before the reactor starts bringing down no3.

I'm running mine at 50 mls/min, but I'm using a lot more sulfur. Mine is also recirculating it keeps my nitrates between 7-10. It took about 4 weeks for mine to really kick in. I also use calcium reactor media mixed into the sulfur and separate on the final pass through.

 

[legionofdoon]

Sulfur reactors either lower alkalinity, or raise calcium (when passed over calcium carbonate), or typically, some of each.

pH will still be depressed, but not as much.

Mine does both

 

[backbayreef]

My tank has been running with high nitrate due to heavy feeding, likely overstock with 25 fish, and no water changes. Nitrate is between 85-90ppm. I’ve been carbon dosing for 3+ months with vodka but reached a saturation point and developed cyano. Therefore I’ve just installed a sulfur-based reactor (old GEO CaRx) so hopefully nitrate will come down in 4-5 weeks.

 

[backbayreef]

IME sulfur-based denitrators consume a little alk, which will show up as an increase in calcium if you’re dosing in equal parts (or my in case, using a CaRx). I would simply dose a little alk to offset.

 

[legionofdoon]

My tank has been running with high nitrate due to heavy feeding, likely overstock with 25 fish, and no water changes. Nitrate is between 85-90ppm. I’ve been carbon dosing for 3+ months with vodka but reached a saturation point and developed cyano. Therefore I’ve just installed a sulfur-based reactor (old GEO CaRx) so hopefully nitrate will come down in 4-5 weeks.

It will most certainly, just have patience. When it starts producing bubbles don't worry about it that's when it's starting to work. Since your nitrates are so high it will produce a ton of bubbles. If you start smelling sulfur increase the flow (slowly), you can test the effluent to dial it in . Over time I increased my drip rate to 50/mls a minute. It will drop your alk so keep an eye on it.