Not a feesh supplements

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The impact of sodium hydroxide on skin, and that of a number of other chemicals we use (e.g., muriatic acid) is entirely dependent on its pH. Once in the tank, the pH is normal for a reef tank and there is no issue at all. :)

If you add hydroxide to a sump slowly enough that the water is not turning and staying cloudy (from precipitating magnesium hydroxide), the pH is not going to be high enough to harm your hand.

 

[theishkid]

The impact of sodium hydroxide on skin, and that of a number of other chemicals we use (e.g., muriatic acid) is entirely dependent on its pH. Once in the tank, the pH is normal for a reef tank and there is no issue at all. :)

If you add hydroxide to a sump slowly enough that the water is not turning and staying cloudy (from precipitating magnesium hydroxide), the pH is not going to be high enough to harm your hand.

Thank you Randy

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you Randy

you're welcome.

Happy Reefing. :)

 

[hunterallen40]

Can I ask what’s probably a really dumb question but I know nothing about chemistry… if the sodium hydroxide is dangerous to get on your skin… how dangerous would it be putting your hand in the tank to move corals for example?

I'm sure you aren't the only one wondering that :), and with chemicals better to ask than not! In short: there is virtually no danger at all doing this for two main reasons.

First, the second the hydroxide solution hits your aquarium water, it reacts with dissolved CO2 to form sodium carbonate (and technically some sodium bicarbonate, but I only mention this for completeness), so it is entirely safe for you and your corals.

The second reason is simply dilution. When you are adding a tiny amount to a very large water volume (proportionally), the exposure to any NaOH (even supposing it had not been reacted) would be miniscule.

**edit**: didn't see Randy got to it first :P

 

[theishkid]

I'm sure you aren't the only one wondering that :), and with chemicals better to ask than not! In short: there is virtually no danger at all doing this for two main reasons.

First, the second the hydroxide solution hits your aquarium water, it reacts with dissolved CO2 to form sodium carbonate (and technically some sodium bicarbonate, but I only mention this for completeness), so it is entirely safe for you and your corals.

The second reason is simply dilution. When you are adding a tiny amount to a very large water volume (proportionally), the exposure to any NaOH (even supposing it had not been reacted) would be miniscule.

**edit**: didn't see Randy got to it first :P

Thanks for your input Hunter. I've defintiely got a low PH issue where it ranges from 7.7 - 7.89 (I occasionally hit 7.9). I'm trying to decide if I should go the Not A Feesh two part method to raise it up or if I should try a couple of other things first.
For example. I don't have very high nutrients in my tank so I haven't unboxed my skimmer yet. But I'm wondering if just getting more aeration in the tank with a skimmer might bring the PH up a little bit?

 

[rtparty]

I'm sure you aren't the only one wondering that :), and with chemicals better to ask than not! In short: there is virtually no danger at all doing this for two main reasons.

First, the second the hydroxide solution hits your aquarium water, it reacts with dissolved CO2 to form sodium carbonate (and technically some sodium bicarbonate, but I only mention this for completeness), so it is entirely safe for you and your corals.

The second reason is simply dilution. When you are adding a tiny amount to a very large water volume (proportionally), the exposure to any NaOH (even supposing it had not been reacted) would be miniscule.

**edit**: didn't see Randy got to it first :P

Hunter, do you know if the dosing lines used in BRS dosing pumps is rated for sodium hydroxide?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for your input Hunter. I've defintiely got a low PH issue where it ranges from 7.7 - 7.89 (I occasionally hit 7.9). I'm trying to decide if I should go the Not A Feesh two part method to raise it up or if I should try a couple of other things first.
For example. I don't have very high nutrients in my tank so I haven't unboxed my skimmer yet. But I'm wondering if just getting more aeration in the tank with a skimmer might bring the PH up a little bit?

Skimmers can raise or lower pH, and may even do both at different times of the day.

Do you know your alk demand?

If it is not medium to high, using hydroxide as an alk additive won’t make much difference.

 

[theishkid]

Skimmers can raise or lower pH, and may even do both at different times of the day.

Do you know your alk demand?

If it is not medium to high, using hydroxide as an alk additive won’t make much difference.

I'm dosing around 50ml of All for Reef a day so not sure how much of a demand that would be considered.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm dosing around 50ml of All for Reef a day so not sure how much of a demand that would be considered.

To what size tank?

 

[theishkid]

To what size tank?

150 Gallon Display
50 Gallon Sump
Salinity 1.025
Temp 77
Alk 9
Ca 430
Mag 1310
Phosphate .04
Nitrate 3

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If we assume 150 gallon total volume, that 50 mL of AFR is only 0.5 dKH per day. That’s a fairly low dose so any pH boost will be pretty small.

 

[theishkid]

If we assume 150 gallon total volume, that 50 mL of AFR is only 0.5 dKH per day. That’s a fairly low dose so any pH boost will be pretty small.

I looked at it a little closer and I'm only about 30 - 40 mL of AFR to keep my Alk at 9. Randy do you think it's even worth trying the Sodium Hydroxide for someone in my situation or just not mess with it?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I looked at it a little closer and I'm only about 30 - 40 mL of AFR to keep my Alk at 9. Randy do you think it's even worth trying the Sodium Hydroxide for someone in my situation or just not mess with it?

I doubt it will make much difference, but assuming your pumps can handle it, and you mix it in fast enough, there’s nothing wrong with doing it.

You could do a test with some hydroxide and see what effect it has. Calcium or sodium hydroxide are fine.

 

[Liam's tank]

I know I'm late to the party but just saw this thread. I started with the original three part and am now dosing the Not a Feesh two part. It has been a game changer for me! Growth, color, overall health of my corals. I can also share from my personal experience working with Hunter and his wife Ruxin that they are more interested in your success than they are in any sale they make!
They also have some great corals and fish, highly recommend checking them out.

 

[Joe Rice]

Just ordered my first batch and noticed that there's now a choice between version 4.3 and version 5 beta. What are the differences between the two versions? @hunterallen40

 

[hunterallen40]

Just ordered my first batch and noticed that there's now a choice between version 4.3 and version 5 beta. What are the differences between the two versions? @hunterallen40

Hey! Yeah, we have a new version that changes a few things. The main reason to change up was to support our new amino acid product, reef bull, in a way that it can be added directly to the two part (if one should be so inclined).

1. We now chelate the trace blend differently in an effort to make things more bio-available than previous versions. In short, we are EDTA free now. This is the biggest change.

2. We reduced the total amount of carbon by a lot, as the nutrient stripping in V4 is a bit too aggressive. V4.3 is still less than a starter dose of vinegar for large daily doses (in terms of total added carbon), but it's now barely present. We just saw too many folks struggling to keep up their nitrates / phosphates.

3. To support reef bull, we needed to buffer the pH of the calcium / magnesium part up a bit (instead of down like in V4.3) to ensure the added aminos don't just fall apart in the brine / fall out of solution. This was the toughest part to get right, but it has been pretty great so far.

Reef bull, for anyone curious, is a 2-part amino acid. Having it in two parts makes it significantly easier to stabilize, and allows you to add it straight to the two part if you are so inclined (HOWEVER: I HIGHLY suggest you dose it independently for a while so you understand the effect it has on your aquarium!!!).

We actually had some mud collected from the solomon islands to analyze for which aminos we chose, using the oceamo organo-MS testing. We had no idea where to start in developing an amino acid, so we just looked to get some real info from nature. We weren't expecting to see very much, but... we were very wrong :). This mud sample was collected very deep (~70 feet) near some solomon islands lokani (which we have struggled keeping historically), and we saw some very interesting things... The most notable spike was actually in Taurine (thus the name"Reef Bull"), but there were many other aminos that spiked considerably. The other interesting thing was vitamin B2 showing up out of nowhere. This is a fishless system, so we don't really do much aside from broadcast feeding, and we had zero water changes / changes in our feeding patterns collecting this data, so we're highly confident these were in fact leachates from the mud itself.

We did NOT want another "proprietary amino acid blend" for the market, so here's the list of the aminos we chose (in no particular order): Taurine, Aspartic Acid, Arginine, Tryptophan, Serine, Threonine.

 

[BriDroid]

Hey! Yeah, we have a new version that changes a few things. The main reason to change up was to support our new amino acid product, reef bull, in a way that it can be added directly to the two part (if one should be so inclined).

1. We now chelate the trace blend differently in an effort to make things more bio-available than previous versions. In short, we are EDTA free now. This is the biggest change.

2. We reduced the total amount of carbon by a lot, as the nutrient stripping in V4 is a bit too aggressive. V4.3 is still less than a starter dose of vinegar for large daily doses (in terms of total added carbon), but it's now barely present. We just saw too many folks struggling to keep up their nitrates / phosphates.

3. To support reef bull, we needed to buffer the pH of the calcium / magnesium part up a bit (instead of down like in V4.3) to ensure the added aminos don't just fall apart in the brine / fall out of solution. This was the toughest part to get right, but it has been pretty great so far.

Reef bull, for anyone curious, is a 2-part amino acid. Having it in two parts makes it significantly easier to stabilize, and allows you to add it straight to the two part if you are so inclined (HOWEVER: I HIGHLY suggest you dose it independently for a while so you understand the effect it has on your aquarium!!!).

We actually had some mud collected from the solomon islands to analyze for which aminos we chose, using the oceamo organo-MS testing. We had no idea where to start in developing an amino acid, so we just looked to get some real info from nature. We weren't expecting to see very much, but... we were very wrong :). This mud sample was collected very deep (~70 feet) near some solomon islands lokani (which we have struggled keeping historically), and we saw some very interesting things... The most notable spike was actually in Taurine (thus the name"Reef Bull"), but there were many other aminos that spiked considerably. The other interesting thing was vitamin B2 showing up out of nowhere. This is a fishless system, so we don't really do much aside from broadcast feeding, and we had zero water changes / changes in our feeding patterns collecting this data, so we're highly confident these were in fact leachates from the mud itself.

We did NOT want another "proprietary amino acid blend" for the market, so here's the list of the aminos we chose (in no particular order): Taurine, Aspartic Acid, Arginine, Tryptophan, Serine, Threonine.

So I’m guessing that part 1 of reef bull goes into part 1 of the 2 part and part 2 of reef bull goes into part 2 of the 2 part?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

We actually had some mud collected from the solomon islands to analyze for which aminos we chose, using the oceamo organo-MS testing. We had no idea where to start in developing an amino acid, so we just looked to get some real info from nature. We weren't expecting to see very much, but... we were very wrong :). This mud sample was collected very deep (~70 feet) near some solomon islands lokani (which we have struggled keeping historically), and we saw some very interesting things... The most notable spike was actually in Taurine (thus the name"Reef Bull"), but there were many other aminos that spiked considerably. The other interesting thing was vitamin B2 showing up out of nowhere. This is a fishless system, so we don't really do much aside from broadcast feeding, and we had zero water changes / changes in our feeding patterns collecting this data, so we're highly confident these were in fact leachates from the mud itself.

We did NOT want another "proprietary amino acid blend" for the market, so here's the list of the aminos we chose (in no particular order): Taurine, Aspartic Acid, Arginine, Tryptophan, Serine, Threonine.

Curious why a mud composition is a good indication of which amino acids (if any) are beneficial to dose? Seems odd to me. What is your rationale?

Also, taurine is not typical amino acid. It is not a protein building block. Why do you think adding it is useful?

 

[Hooz]

Curious why a mud composition is a good indication of which amino acids (if any) are beneficial to dose? Seems odd to me. What is your rationale?

Also, taurine is not typical amino acid. It is not a protein building block. Why do you think adding it is useful?

I think they chose those based on results with their own acros in their own tanks.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think they chose those based on results with their own acros in their own tanks.

That would certainly be appropriate, especially if we knew what changes were observed to decide what to dose, but I thought just said they chose it based on mud in the ocean???

We actually had some mud collected from the solomon islands to analyze for which aminos we chose, using the oceamo organo-MS testing. We had no idea where to start in developing an amino acid, so we just looked to get some real info from nature. We weren't expecting to see very much, but... we were very wrong :). This mud sample was collected very deep (~70 feet) near some solomon islands lokani (which we have struggled keeping historically), and we saw some very interesting things... The most notable spike was actually in Taurine (thus the name"Reef Bull"), but there were many other aminos that spiked considerably.