Nutrient Saturated Systems

[reeferfoxx]

Just found out that some "algae" can turn into bacterivores under low phosphate (nutrient starvation) conditions.

Low P conditions also seem to cause them to become more toxic.

These are single-celled "algae" – obligate primary producers was the focus.

"Bacterivory in algae: A survival strategy during nutrient limitation"
http://aslo.org/lo/toc/vol_38/issue_2/
Download

Here's the Abstract just to get you warmed up, if you weren't already:

Bacterivory in obligate phototrophic algal flagellates may be an important strategy for acquiring nutrients during periods of inorganic nutrient limitation. Several marine algal flagellates were shown to increase bactivory when phosphate was limited. Grazing on bacteria by algal flagellates was found during blooms of Prymnesium parvum in Sandsljorden, western Norway, in 1989 and Chrysochromulina polylepis on the south and west coast of Norway in 1988. Dissolved phosphate was not detectable in these situations. Algal flagellates may graze bacteria to obtain phosphate, which may permit these algal flagellates to develop blooms when phosphate becomes limited. ​

There must be a handful of algae with the nickname "golden algae". This is more like dinos?

 

[mcarroll]

It's a collective of dino's diatoms and other archae as near as I can tell.

 

[mcarroll]

"Chrysophytes", if you will...but even that has a squirrelly meaning.

I needed a microscope to see for myselfm but never had the time and budget to do it. Someone else offered to look at it locally, but I think everyone got busy on that front as well. So I don't have any sort of confirmation....but it does seem to be that collective known as "Chrysophytes".

#chrysophytes

 

[mcarroll]

Click that tag to see more.

 

[reeferfoxx]

"Chrysophytes", if you will...but even that has a squirrelly meaning.

I needed a microscope to see for myselfm but never had the time and budget to do it. Someone else offered to look at it locally, but I think everyone got busy on that front as well. So I don't have any sort of confirmation....but it does seem to be that collective known as "Chrysophytes".

#chrysophytes

You still battling that?

Prymnesium parvum is a haptophyte, belonging to Haptophyta (=Prymnesiophyta). The species is of concern because of its ability to produce a toxin, prymnesin. It is a flagellated alga that is normally found suspended in the water column.

 

[mcarroll]

U see that flagellated algae link I posted just a little bit ago??? Low phosphate conditions seem to cause or be associated with the cause. Low P = toxic algae.

Yes whatever-it-is it's still around, but not on the warpath anymore. It still loves the bare Hydnophora skeleton and one or two other spots. Since adding nutrients to the tank and straightening out the water chemistry, there're many more algae competing for real-estate. I'm actually going to have to clean coraline algae off of a pump here soon....first time in many moons I've seen even a sign of coraline. :)

 

[reeferfoxx]

U see that flagellated algae link I posted just a little bit ago??? Low phosphate conditions seem to cause or be associated with the cause. Low P = toxic algae.

Yes whatever-it-is it's still around, but not on the warpath anymore. It still loves the bare Hydnophora skeleton and one or two other spots. Since adding nutrients to the tank and straightening out the water chemistry, there're many more algae competing for real-estate. I'm actually going to have to clean coraline algae off of a pump here soon....first time in many moons I've seen even a sign of coraline. :)

Salty and I were just talking, I've yet to see a pic of what you are tackling? And yes I looked at your link which makes me believe it's not that?

 

[mcarroll]

They were talking about a couple of different flagellated algae that are like haplophytes, and haplophytes used to be classified as chrysophytes, so.... Hrm.

And you wouldn't find a pic of that here. Where have you been looking? :D I wish there was an image search on here....so I could at least look up all the images I had posted in the past.

I'll start a PM with you two. ;)

P.S. Another interesting reference in that link earlier was that "bacteria are high in P, even under low-P conditions". Still need to read up more on that one, but interesting.

 

[reeferfoxx]

They were talking about a couple of different flagellated algae that are like haplophytes, and haplophytes used to be classified as chrysophytes, so.... Hrm.

And you wouldn't find a pic of that here. Where have you been looking? :D I wish there was an image search on here....so I could at least look up all the images I had posted in the past.

I'll start a PM with you two. ;)

P.S. Another interesting reference in that link earlier was that "bacteria are high in P, even under low-P conditions". Still need to read up more on that one, but interesting.

What drives me nuts is the lack of specification between fresh and saltwater.

 

[Paul B]

What drives me nuts is the lack of specification between fresh and saltwater.

What drives me nuts is all the problems and the battling. How come I never have to "battle" anything. If this was a battle I would have thrown it in my garbage years ago.
I don't know what you are battling but a diatom filter would probably eliminate it no matter what your phosphates are. :rolleyes:

 

[reeferfoxx]

What drives me nuts is all the problems and the battling. How come I never have to "battle" anything. If this was a battle I would have thrown it in my garbage years ago.
I don't know what you are battling but a diatom filter would probably eliminate it no matter what your phosphates are. :rolleyes:

Because your trial and error began when fossils werent fossils.. Lol j/k. Keeping things simple has obviously helped you.

 

[skim]

 

[mcarroll]

I don't know what you are battling but a diatom filter would probably eliminate it no matter what your phosphates are. :rolleyes:

I was just thinking about that when I saw that Marineland has a new, pretty affordable diatom-filter option:
Magnum® Polishing Internal Canister Filter ($40)

In case you can't tell, it's made for internal use which simplifies things a lot! My tanks aren't that big, but these are small enough and cheap enough I might even consider running two if it seemed necessary.

For size perspective, it fits one of their standard 4" diameter pleated filter cartridge.

 

[mcarroll]

What drives me nuts is all the problems and the battling. How come I never have to "battle" anything. If this was a battle I would have thrown it in my garbage years ago.
I don't know what you are battling but a diatom filter would probably eliminate it no matter what your phosphates are. :rolleyes:

I would only add that I'm happy to see other algae proliferating now. This stuff was blanketing everything and seemed to be causing coral mortality – not much Hydnophora left to save when I got into it!– that's the only thing that got me to take action at all.

Though this tank has never really had any, in general I tend to let waves of algae come and go as it seems natural and healthy. They don't normally stage a violent takeover like this though!

 

[Paul B]

I have seen that diatom filter gismo at the LFS I go to. It looks good for a smaller tank as diatom filters clog quickly.
I could not run my tank without a diatom filter. Great invention.

Reeferfoxx, I cycled my tank with trilobites, what's wrong with that? :eek:
Everything to me is simple. I throw food in the tank, the fish eat it and live 25 years. No problems and no battling anything.

When this hobby gets hard I will get a new hobby like trying to guess the phone numbers of Supermodels or counting the legs on copepods.
Or maybe I will just work on getting that 6 pack back

 

[john.m.cole3]

How does a diatom filter work? Mechanical? Different than a filter sock?

 

[mcarroll]

sub-micron mechanical filtration :)

There's a pleated "paper" 1 micron filter at the core of it....you run it in a 5 gallon bucket that you've previously mixed with diatom powder. Run the filter in the bucket until it's fully charged with the powder...this blocks the pores down to sub-micron in size. (I don't know how you know...I guess the bucket water clears?) Then you transfer the filter to the tank where you need it. (From reading their webpage on it.)

 

[skim]

I still believe that they made one of the best Canister filters. Magnum 350, anyone remember them, you could convert it to a Diatom filter.

 

[Tench1]

Ok we all hear to shoot for low but detectable nutrients i.e. nitrates and phosphates.

But I want to hear about the tanks that are running just fine on HIGH nutrients. Like nitrates of 100 and a phosphate reading of 1.0. I'm sure it can be done. I was reading a post where a guy was keeping SPS with nitrates at 160 and phosphates of 1.33!!!

how old is your tank and what corals/fish are in there? throw up a pic for fun.
Celebrate the nutrients :rolleyes::eek::Do_O;):)

Hi there, back to the topic, I would like to share my high nutrient tank setup.

Sps - dominated tank.

TDS reading of my Saltmix water - 130+
Po4 - 60-80ppb (Hanna checker Hi736)
No3 - 50 (Salifert)

FTS of my almost 3X2.5x2.5 ft tank.

This should be taken sometime last year...

I'm not usin RODI water for my Saltmix, hence the high nutrients. However, I have no issue keeping SPS.

Colors wise, cannot be compared to ULNS tank with pastel color, but I find mine with richer color. (Mainly due to higher metal elements in the water)

 

[john.m.cole3]

Hi there, back to the topic, I would like to share my high nutrient tank setup.

Sps - dominated tank.

TDS reading of my Saltmix water - 130+
Po4 - 60-80ppb (Hanna checker Hi736)
No3 - 50 (Salifert)

FTS of my almost 3X2.5x2.5 ft tank.

This should be taken sometime last year...

I'm not usin RODI water for my Saltmix, hence the high nutrients. However, I have no issue keeping SPS.

Colors wise, cannot be compared to ULNS tank with pastel color, but I find mine with richer color. (Mainly due to higher metal elements in the water)

Thanks for getting us back in topic. Very nice tank! Dark colors ate very appealing