Orchid Dottyback Breeding Attempt

Wolf89

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Is there any way to tell if the fry are eating the dry food?
They aren't the most expressive at this age gotta say
Whether or not they are, you should continue to do so! But you really just to observe for a while i guess
 
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PeterLL

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Whether or not they are, you should continue to do so! But you really just to observe for a while i guess
Awesome, thank you. I guess they’re gonna have to learn dry at some point. Still feeding as much Roti’s as I can but the cultures aren’t doing good.



Day 6eve
About 12 more little fry corpses but honestly far less than I had expected so far. Still made me quite sad to see :(
35B69EA3-6946-4924-97D7-F1123EBB2A38.jpeg


Still a good amount going strong.
70EDD153-449B-4B03-9C8F-3BF0BC82FFF6.jpeg
 
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PeterLL

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Having a huge big die off (relative to just yesterday) just in the last few hours. Think it is because I have switched to entirely rotifer to mostly dry fry food just in the last few days after my rotifer culture's stalled but have no main idea.
Sucks :(

Edit: If I were to guess I would say 50% in the last few hours. This really stings. I was also lazy with water changes as its dark cold and rainy which is another lesson learnt.
I'm not sure if this batch is a write-off
 
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Wolf89

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Having a huge big die off (relative to just yesterday) just in the last few hours. Think it is because I have switched to entirely rotifer to mostly dry fry food just in the last few days after my rotifer culture's stalled but have no main idea.
Sucks :(

Edit: If I were to guess I would say 50% in the last few hours. This really stings. I was also lazy with water changes as its dark cold and rainy which is another lesson learnt.
I'm not sure if this batch is a write-off
Thats sucks man! But don't give up! Don't lose hope with this batch either. My first batch of clowns i only had 1 survivor
 
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PeterLL

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Thats sucks man! But don't give up! Don't lose hope with this batch either. My first batch of clowns i only had 1 survivor
I had just posted this on another forum, but down to single digits now.
For sure making changes more inline with what you recommend.

I'm debating whether I want another go though, as it would mean I will have to stay at home even after lockdown may be over and I would be able to go back to uni.

Few things I would definitely change:
  • 14L of rotifers were clearly not enough, think I would go with 3 x 10L tubs and restart and clean out a vessel once week.
  • Culture Isochrysis Gabana and along that Parvocalanus Copepods. Probably start with 2x4L cultures of Isochrysis, and 2 x 10L of Parvocalanus. I would use the Isochrysis as feed for the Copepods, and to also tint the water of the larval tank.
  • I would have a constant storage of fresh salt water at room temperature. ATM I had to make it up every time outside in the rain, cold and dark and think this meant I didn't water change as much as I should have. (my excuse for laziness).
  • Have the larval tub sitting in a larger storage box with water, a water bath essentially, with the heater outside the tub (and the thermometer within the tub). Reason is my rooms an attic and the temperature gets very cold at night and swings about a lot during the day. Think this would help keep it more stable.
That's all that I can think of at the moment.
A lot more have died in the last hour, single digits of fish now swimming about.
 
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Wolf89

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I had just posted this on another forum, but down to single digits now.
For sure making changes more inline with what you recommend.

I'm debating whether I want another go though, as it would mean I will have to stay at home even after lockdown may be over and I would be able to go back to uni.

Few things I would definitely change:
  • 14L of rotifers were clearly not enough, think I would go with 3 x 10L tubs and restart and clean out a vessel once week.
  • Culture Isochrysis Gabana and along that Parvocalanus Copepods. Probably start with 2x4L cultures of Isochrysis, and 2 x 10L of Parvocalanus. I would use the Isochrysis as feed for the Copepods, and to also tint the water of the larval tank.
  • I would have a constant storage of fresh salt water at room temperature. ATM I had to make it up every time outside in the rain, cold and dark and think this meant I didn't water change as much as I should have. (my excuse for laziness).
  • Have the larval tub sitting in a larger storage box with water, a water bath essentially, with the heater outside the tub (and the thermometer within the tub). Reason is my rooms an attic and the temperature gets very cold at night and swings about a lot during the day. Think this would help keep it more stable.
That's all that I can think of at the moment.
A lot more have died in the last hour, single digits of fish now swimming about.
Those are some good ideas. I would also suggest having some brine shrimp eggs availble to hatch if your cultures are ever not producing. Of course they are more of a last resort, but they can be super helpful in a pinch.
 
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PeterLL

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Those are some good ideas. I would also suggest having some brine shrimp eggs availble to hatch if your cultures are ever not producing. Of course they are more of a last resort, but they can be super helpful in a pinch.
I have brine shrimp eggs right now with me just thought they were too big :(

I think the main reasoning was the stall of my rotifers, I had to switch over to dry very quickly and tbh I had not a clue how much dry to feed.
 

Wolf89

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I have brine shrimp eggs right now with me just thought they were too big :(

I think the main reasoning was the stall of my rotifers, I had to switch over to dry very quickly and tbh I had not a clue how much dry to feed.
They can eat NHBBS by day 6-7
 
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PeterLL

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They can eat NHBBS by day 6-7
Ahh I read day 9 so thought it would have been a pointless. I will know for next time!

I have been having another look around and racking my brain to think if anything else went wrong and came across what I think could have been another (deadly) mistake. With the feeding of dry foods I became more and more concerned with ammonia as I had no established biological filter. This, has led me to putting in more prime. Far more prime than I should have I think. Probably about 5 ml's under the assumption "better safe than sorry" and that I couldn't really overdose. Unfortunately I discovered that prime, can indeed be overdosed. It strips oxygen from the water, and after looking the maximum dose is 4ml/40l under any circumstances. I think this may have been my fatal error, more so than the rotifers.

Live and learn.
Well I will, the fry not so much :(
 
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PeterLL

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@Wolf89 Thought's on Ocean Nutrition Instant BBS as an alternative to live BBS/ a regular good along with rotifers after day 4?
Also, Thoughts on mixing batches? My current batch fell drastically because of yet a another problem with rotifers. I hope that is sorted now, and I have another batch of eggs. I was thinking of adding them, the age difference would only be a week. I get its probably a bad idea but I can't imagine why. what do you think?
 

Wolf89

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@Wolf89 Thought's on Ocean Nutrition Instant BBS as an alternative to live BBS/ a regular good along with rotifers after day 4?
Movement is what attracts the larvae to food... Not sure how non living bbs would fare. You would need to keep it in suspension, which is pretty difficult to do. The bbs will also rot quickly. It may work, but it will require some extra attention to keep it suspended in the water and to keep the ammonia down.

I still recommend live copepods. They are much easier to consistently culture than rots, as they reproduce much slower. Just make extra sure you don't get rots in the pod culture, or it will be overrun. Parvocalanus is the best, but any pelagic copepod with small enough nauplii should work.

Are you using live phyto for your rotifers? Pods only consume live phyto, and parvo need the brown species, like t-iso, not green ones like you would use for rotifers.

Also, Thoughts on mixing batches? My current batch fell drastically because of yet a another problem with rotifers. I hope that is sorted now, and I have another batch of eggs. I was thinking of adding them, the age difference would only be a week. I get its probably a bad idea but I can't imagine why. what do you think?
No personal experience, but in Moe's book, he did exactly what you're proposing and I don't recall any negatives from it.
 
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PeterLL

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Movement is what attracts the larvae to food... Not sure how non living bbs would fare. You would need to keep it in suspension, which is pretty difficult to do. The bbs will also rot quickly. It may work, but it will require some extra attention to keep it suspended in the water and to keep the ammonia down.

I still recommend live copepods. They are much easier to consistently culture than rots, as they reproduce much slower. Just make extra sure you don't get rots in the pod culture, or it will be overrun. Parvocalanus is the best, but any pelagic copepod with small enough nauplii should work.

Are you using live phyto for your rotifers? Pods only consume live phyto, and parvo need the brown species, like t-iso, not green ones like you would use for rotifers.


No personal experience, but in Moe's book, he did exactly what you're proposing and I don't recall any negatives from it.
Thank You! That makes sense about the BBS, will just keep hatching my own ones. Yeah I do keep throwing the idea of the copepods, I just have never cultured a phytoplankton before which is scaring me off a little bit lol. For the rotifers I am using a concentrated feed, and then the night before feeding I use a rotifer enrichment.
I have ordered some F2 and Isochrysis now though so will be starting that up and if I can get that stable I will get parcocalanus. It is true that I only harvest the phyto once a week, and if stored in the fridge, it will remain live for about a week, right? So I can still use a week old stuff from the fridge to tint the water/feed the parvo?
 

Wolf89

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I have ordered some F2 and Isochrysis now though so will be starting that up and if I can get that stable I will get parcocalanus. It is true that I only harvest the phyto once a week, and if stored in the fridge, it will remain live for about a week, right? So I can still use a week old stuff from the fridge to tint the water/feed the parvo?
Yes, but you'll probably want to give it a good shake when it starts dropping out of the water column. Be very careful with using sterile equipment. You should use rubbing alcohol as all solid materials and sterilize the culture vessel and water with either boiling water (the starter water should be boiled or bleached, rodi alone is not enough) or using bleach and then adding a dechlorinator.
 

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It is true that I only harvest the phyto once a week, and if stored in the fridge, it will remain live for about a week, right? So I can still use a week old stuff from the fridge to tint the water/feed the parvo?
I wouldn't do it that way but rather leave it in the culture vessel and use it from there. Isochrysis doesn't really like it cold and Parvocalanus doesn't eat it once it's dead or not moving.
Also, you will need 200 to 400 ml Isochrysis each day to feed just one 5 gallon/20 liter bucket with Parvocalanus.
 
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PeterLL

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@Wolf89
I am genuinely so sorry, I’ve been having my midterms and essays and all that last few weeks and the fry have fallen slightly under the radar. Thank you for the information about the ISO unfortunately I never got round to it due to the Uni but good to know if I try again.
I have about 15 left - either 3 or 4 weeks old. Judging by the fact I don’t see any fish or colour, I’m guessing it’s mostly the 3 week old. I’m guessing this might be a tough week for them, so hopefully I get some fry left at the end of the week and some colour on them!
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