Overflow is very loud

[cpark645]

Hello,

I purchased the 16'' ghost overflow and am having issues with noise. All the noise is coming from the internal overflow box, from the water falling down from the weirs to the water level of my external box. I plumbed it so the external box's water level is relatively high, but still I have this problem.

I've attached a video of the water level in my external overflow. Again, all the noise you can hear is from the internal box.

 

[Ariel V Rosa]

IMO, looks like you are trying to run too much water through there. Slow your return down some if your able to do so.

A lot of these overflows advertise being silent and they also advertise a maximum GPH, what some of these guys don't tell users is that running it at max GPH will always make some noise.

How is this overflow configured down in the sump? Which lines are above and below water? That noise might be splashing water coming back up though the emergency line, You also might be overly closed on your siphon line and too much water is flowing down the open channel.

Cant really tell without seeing what's happening in the sump.

 

[cpark645]

IMO, looks like you are trying to run too much water through there. Slow your return down some if your able to do so.

A lot of these overflows advertise being silent and they also advertise a maximum GPH, what some of these guys don't tell users is that running it at max GPH will always make some noise.

How is this overflow configured down in the sump? Which lines are above and below water? That noise might be splashing water coming back up though the emergency line, You also might be overly closed on your siphon line and too much water is flowing down the open channel.

Cant really tell without seeing what's happening in the sump.

I can slow it down, right now I'm running a Varios 6s on the 3rd highest setting, with about 3 feet of head pressure. I'd guess I'm probably at around 800-900 gph, but that's a total guess.

Like I mentioned in the first post, all the noise is from the internal box. The siphon is running perfectly, open channel is near silent as well. Emergency line is dry as you can see in the video. The reason I can tell this is because I messed around with my gate valve so that the open channel starts making noise, and adjusted it back until it became silent. However the waterfall noise never went away, and I can hear it's coming from the internal box.

 

[Ariel V Rosa]

I can slow it down, right now I'm running a Varios 6s on the 3rd highest setting, with about 3 feet of head pressure. I'd guess I'm probably at around 800-900 gph, but that's a total guess.

Like I mentioned in the first post, all the noise is from the internal box. The siphon is running perfectly, open channel is near silent as well. Emergency line is dry as you can see in the video. The reason I can tell this is because I messed around with my gate valve so that the open channel starts making noise, and adjusted it back until it became silent. However the waterfall noise never went away, and I can hear it's coming from the internal box.

Yeah I just got a feeling you are hearing splashing noise traveling back up from the sump though the open channel. YOu might have hit that perfect resonance frequency for it to happen. When you get pictures of the sump situation we can get a better view of what's going on.

That pump is rated for 1300 GPH at that height, but I see you got a couple of bends and thinner return lines.

 

[cpark645]

Yeah I just got a feeling you are hearing splashing noise traveling back up from the sump though the open channel. YOu might have hit that perfect resonance frequency for it to happen. When you get pictures of the sump situation we can get a better view of what's going on.

That pump is rated for 1300 GPH at that height, but I see you got a couple of bends and thinner return lines.

Not sure what you mean :x What info are you looking for from sump pic? Here’s a pic

The siphon and open channel go into the filter sock compartment. Emergency is the pipe behind skimmer. But like I said, I played with the gate valve until the open channel clearly made gurgling sounds and then dialed it back down until it’s silent. I’m 99% sure it is the internal box.

And you’re right about the bends and smaller size return plumbing, I’m using 3/4 pipes and several 90 elbows.

 

[Ariel V Rosa]

Not sure what you mean :x What info are you looking for from sump pic? Here’s a pic

The siphon and open channel go into the filter sock compartment. Emergency is the pipe behind skimmer. But like I said, I played with the gate valve until the open channel clearly made gurgling sounds and then dialed it back down until it’s silent. I’m 99% sure it is the internal box.

And you’re right about the bends and smaller size return plumbing, I’m using 3/4 pipes and several 90 elbows.

Nice looking sump area 10/10

Are all 3 pipes under water? Is there an air regulation method on the open channel?

There also might be an issue with how horizontal the two pipes going to the left are, siphons hate horizontal runs, easiest fix is with 45 degree elbows to get rid of the horizontal runs.

 

[cpark645]

Nice looking sump area 10/10

Are all 3 pipes under water? Is there an air regulation method on the open channel?

Hah thanks. When you say 3 pipes are you referring to the drain pipes in the sump? Which the answer would be no, the emergency Ian not under water. This is standard design so I know when the emergency is being used from the noise it will make.

Open channel and siphon are fully submerged under water when sump is filled.

As for fixing horizontal runs, I don’t think it’s necessary. My siphon is fine, there’s no noise from any of my plumbing!! :|

 

[Ariel V Rosa]

Hah thanks. When you say 3 pipes are you referring to the drain pipes in the sump? Which the answer would be no, the emergency Ian not under water. This is standard design so I know when the emergency is being used from the noise it will make.

Open channel and siphon are fully submerged under water when sump is filled.

Yep, that's understandable, A lot of reefers are doing the emergency out of the water method, but that comes with the understanding that the pipe will carry whatever sound it hears around it up to the overflow box and into the environment. So whatever that opening down in the sump is placed next to it will be amplified and carried up. You could cut a round piece of foam sponge the size of the pipe and have it loosely go in there, it will block some of the sound going up, and will pop out if water was to ever go though there. I am leaning more towards air maybe getting stuck in the horizontal runs at the top of the tube. It will still act like a siphon. Before you go tearing anything up, cover the emergency with something down at the sump, see if that quiets things down, as an experiment, like a removable end cap.

 

[Ariel V Rosa]

No more air bubble since it has to go up or down.

 

[cpark645]

Yep, that's understandable, A lot of reefers are doing the emergency out of the water method, but that comes with the understanding that the pipe will carry whatever sound it hears around it up to the overflow box and into the environment. So whatever that opening down in the sump is placed next to it will be amplified and carried up. You could cut a round piece of foam sponge the size of the pipe and have it loosely go in there, it will block some of the sound going up, and will pop out if water was to ever go though there. I am leaning more towards air maybe getting stuck in the horizontal runs at the top of the tube. It will still act like a siphon.

But that pipe is running dry. How can it make noise while it’s dry?? Why don’t you believe me that it’s not my plumbing T.T I don’t know how else to convince you!

 

[cpark645]

Oh you’re saying the sound is not from the pipe running water, it’s carrying the sounds of the sump up to the overflow? I don’t think that would make the kind of noise it’s making though. And if I stick my head in the sump I don’t hear anything, it’s dead silent. Another reason why I’m convinced it is not the plumbing !!

Another thing is, if I turn off my mp40 I have less surface tension, and it also makes it a little bit more quiet. That’s another reason why I was convinced the sound was from the water falling down from the weirs in the internal box.

 

[Ariel V Rosa]

Oh you’re saying the sound is not from the pipe running water, it’s carrying the sounds of the sump up to the overflow? I don’t think that would make the kind of noise it’s making though. And if I stick my head in the sump I don’t hear anything, it’s dead silent.

Another thing is, if I turn off my mp40 I have less surface tension, and it also makes it a little bit more quiet. That’s another reason why I was convinced the sound was from the water falling down from the weirs in the internal box.

YES!! LOL Sound going through pipes behaves differently, it may be dead silent on one end to human ears but once it makes it to the other side of the pipe it sounds loud. Stick your ear on an open PVC pipe and you will see how things are amplified.

Check your weir for level it should be letting the same amount of water in on both ends, I did notice that in your video where the bulkhead the farthest is fully submerged and the bulkhead nearest is not submerged and letting bubbles in, that is splashing right there.

Let me link you the beananimal thread this actually happens more often than you think.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1541946

not everybody solution is the same to getting this thing running dead silent.

 

[cpark645]

YES!! LOL

Check your weir for level it should be letting the same amount of water in on both ends, I did notice that in your video where the bulkhead the farthest is fully submerged and the bulkhead nearest is not submerged and letting bubbles in, that is splashing right there.

but my sump is so quiet... and I can clearly hear that the noise is from the internal box!!

Hmm ok! I can check for level.

 

[cpark645]

Just checked and it is indeed level.

 

[cpark645]

YES!! LOL Sound going through pipes behaves differently, it may be dead silent on one end to human ears but once it makes it to the other side of the pipe it sounds loud. Stick your ear on an open PVC pipe and you will see how things are amplified.

Check your weir for level it should be letting the same amount of water in on both ends, I did notice that in your video where the bulkhead the farthest is fully submerged and the bulkhead nearest is not submerged and letting bubbles in, that is splashing right there.

Let me link you the beananimal thread this actually happens more often than you think.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1541946

not everybody solution is the same to getting this thing running dead silent.

Trust me, this has nothing to do with the bean animal style plumbing. It has to do with the fact the water is falling down a distance of about 2-3 inches from the weir to the water level of the internal box, because the external box is positioned way below the internal box. I was just hoping other people might have had the same problem and was able to fix it. It DOES NOT have to do with the plumbing!!! Except maybe the plumbing in the external box itself.

 

[Ariel V Rosa]

Trust me, this has nothing to do with the bean animal style plumbing. It has to do with the fact the water is falling down a distance of about 2-3 inches from the weir to the water level of the internal box, because the external box is positioned way below the internal box. I was just hoping other people might have had the same problem and was able to fix it. It DOES NOT have to do with the plumbing!!! Except maybe the plumbing in the external box itself.

They call that the "Niagara Falls" Effect

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/heres-a-video-of-my-shadow-overflow-very-quiet.344238/

Water shouldn't be falling so far, at least for that overflow I believe.

 

[mixer911]

It should not be that loud. Do you have any internal flow pumps that may be aimed towards the front box of the overflow. The video only showed the rear box, can you do a video of the whole thing including the front box so I can see what the front is doing inside the tank.

 

[cpark645]

It should not be that loud. Do you have any internal flow pumps that may be aimed towards the front box of the overflow. The video only showed the rear box, can you do a video of the whole thing including the front box so I can see what the front is doing inside the tank.

I have an mp40 about 4 inches down from the surface of the water. Is that going to cause problems? I also have minimal rockwork so I think the mp40 is definitely causing some noise.

Also, I'm starting to notice salt creep on the back of the overflow...

I tried turning the return pump flow down some more, and it helped. I don't have as much turnover as I'd like but it's still not too bad so I might keep it at a low turnover rate. I just wish this box could handle more flow..

Actually @mixer911 I saw the video of your demo, and it looks like the water level in the external box has to be high enough to cover the bulkheads. It's a bit too high for comfort but I think I'll try raising the open channel pipe some more and see if it helps.

 

[mixer911]

I have an mp40 about 4 inches down from the surface of the water. Is that going to cause problems? I also have minimal rockwork so I think the mp40 is definitely causing some noise.

Also, I'm starting to notice salt creep on the back of the overflow...

I tried turning the return pump flow down some more, and it helped. I don't have as much turnover as I'd like but it's still not too bad so I might keep it at a low turnover rate. I just wish this box could handle more flow..

Actually @mixer911 I saw the video of your demo, and it looks like the water level in the external box has to be high enough to cover the bulkheads. It's a bit too high for comfort but I think I'll try raising the open channel pipe some more and see if it helps.

It's more than likely the water level in the rear box need to be raised up over the 2 bulkheads coming thru the back of the tank. This can cause both issues with noise in the front box and salt creep to build up. The high water level helps stop splashing inside the rear box, which is usually the cause for salt creep over time. It may seem too high for comfort, but that is why we have the emergency channel. If it is all plumbed properly you will not have to worry. It will pull water down way before if would overflow. The box can def handle more flow if you are only doing 800 gph. Bring that level up and it should solve your issue. With the MP40 under neath it, it shouldn't be any issue. Pumps that are aimed in the direction can cause splashing noise in the front weir at first until the slime coat builds up on the inside of the front box.

 

[cpark645]

It's more than likely the water level in the rear box need to be raised up over the 2 bulkheads coming thru the back of the tank. This can cause both issues with noise in the front box and salt creep to build up. The high water level helps stop splashing inside the rear box, which is usually the cause for salt creep over time. It may seem too high for comfort, but that is why we have the emergency channel. If it is all plumbed properly you will not have to worry. It will pull water down way before if would overflow. The box can def handle more flow if you are only doing 800 gph. Bring that level up and it should solve your issue. With the MP40 under neath it, it shouldn't be any issue. Pumps that are aimed in the direction can cause splashing noise in the front weir at first until the slime coat builds up on the inside of the front box.

Do you know how long the open channel pipe should be for me to achieve this? The piece I cut was 5.5 inches I think. And how long should the emergency be?