Oxygen while using meds

[Humblefish]

Appetite suppression has begun (probably due to all the different meds being mixed together.) Also, the Clown Tang has stringy white poop - so that means he also has intestinal worms. Hopefully this next round of Metro will take care of that. On the bright side, the Yellow Tang's infection has completely cleared. So, kanamycin got the job done without the need for nitrofurazone.

Updated list of meds I have dosed below:

Day 1: 5 min FW dip + 90 min acriflavine bath, then transferred into a QT predosed with Chloroquine phosphate @ 60mg/gal. CP treats all external parasites, including velvet (for the butterfly).

Day 2: Dosed kanamycin (25mg/gal) for the Yellow Tang's infection in the AM. Dosed metronidazole (25mg/gal) and praziquantel (8mg/gal) for the Clown Tang's flukes in the PM. Water starts to turn cloudy.

Day 3: No meds; I decided against dosing nitrofurazone (another antibiotic) because the YT's infection is already looking better, and I didn't want to risk suppressing the fishes' appetites by dosing more meds.

Day 4: Dosed kanamycin (25mg/gal) for the Yellow Tang's infection in the AM. Dosed metronidazole (25mg/gal) and praziquantel (8mg/gal) for the Clown Tang's flukes in the PM.

Day 5: No meds

Day 6: Dosed kanamycin (25mg/gal) for the Yellow Tang's infection.

Day 7: No meds

Day 8: Dosed kanamycin (25mg/gal) for the Yellow Tang's infection (pretty much gone now).

Day 9: Dosed metronidazole (25mg/gal) and praziquantel (8mg/gal) - second round of treatment.

 

[TCFletch]

I see that you're dosing Kanamycin and Metro, and Prazi with CP. my question is is it ok to combine those meds with CopperSafe? I can't get a hold of CP.

 

[TCFletch]

I see that you're dosing Kanamycin and Metro, and Prazi with CP. my question is is it ok to combine those meds with CopperSafe? I can't get a hold of CP.

 

[Humblefish]

I see that you're dosing Kanamycin and Metro, and Prazi with CP. my question is is it ok to combine those meds with CopperSafe? I can't get a hold of CP.

Yes, just watch out for a bacterial bloom (cloudy water) and provide extra O2 if this occurs. Same precautions as when mixing with CP. And you can also expect appetite suppression to occur when mixing that many meds. My fish in QT have pretty much stopped eating, but they are less than 48 hrs away from transfer into a non-medicated HT so I'm gonna stay the course.

 

[Darbna]

An air pump & stone works fine, it's just that a powerhead is a more effective way of achieving gas exchange. You gotta remember that the tiny air bubbles in the water count for nothing. It's when those air bubbles break the surface (create a ripple) that gas exchange occurs.

P.S. I added this in at the top:

• A wide open top is the best way to ensure proper gas exchange is taking place. A sealed lid or cover limits gas exchange. You can always use eggcrate as a top if you have jumpers in QT.

I added an air stone to mine and the bacteria bloom has ceased. I have 2 powerheads pointed up and couldnt combat it. I pointed the powerhead right where the bubbles hit the surface therfore creating more of a "disturbance". It worked and Im good to go. Thank you for the past help with the QT advise @Humblefish. I am getting my 265 Gallon a week from today and will begin cycle. I may start getting a few fish to QT while the cycle is happening. Any suggestions on time frame? I only ever saw a cycle taking a few weeks. I heard a few people talking about a couple months. My 125 took 2 weeks and here it his now 7 months later. I guess I will have to test the water on the 265 every few days and see like all beginnings of a reef tank. Either way I am stoked its happening and I am confident that I can quarantine long term with the powerheads and airstone.

 

[Humblefish]

Any suggestions on time frame? I only ever saw a cycle taking a few weeks.

When I cycle a tank, I like to wait 4-6 weeks before adding any livestock.

 

[CJBuckeyes]

My fish in QT have pretty much stopped eating, but they are less than 48 hrs away from transfer into a non-medicated HT so I'm gonna stay the course.

Can you talk more about your plan moving forward? Are you stopping all medication after ~11 days? Thanks!

 

[TCFletch]

Yes, just watch out for a bacterial bloom (cloudy water) and provide extra O2 if this occurs. Same precautions as when mixing with CP. And you can also expect appetite suppression to occur when mixing that many meds. My fish in QT have pretty much stopped eating, but they are less than 48 hrs away from transfer into a non-medicated HT so I'm gonna stay the course.

So I should administer meds every other day? For how long? Until symptoms disappear? I have to QT with meds for 30 days with CopperSafe.

 

[Humblefish]

Can you talk more about your plan moving forward? Are you stopping all medication after ~11 days? Thanks!

I will provide more info in 24 hrs, after all the fish have been moved into a non-medicated conditioning tank. I just want to keep everything in chronological order for documentation purposes.

So I should administer meds every other day? For how long? Until symptoms disappear? I have to QT with meds for 30 days with CopperSafe.

I wouldn't dose antibiotics unless needed to fight signs of an active infection. API General Cure (prazi + metro mix) gets dosed 2x, spaced 48 hrs apart. One week later you repeat this "2x, spaced 48 hrs apart" regimen.

Or you can just use Prazipro with copper (which only requires one dose, and then gets repeated one week apart); but I don't recommend using Prazipro with CP.

 

[CJBuckeyes]

but I don't recommend using Prazipro with CP.

Is this because of your findings with the treatment your doing now? Or you just don't recommend other people doing it because of the difficulty maintaining O2? Thanks!

 

[TCFletch]

In staying in order: we know the butterfly has symptoms of velvet, so why is it ok to transfer it to the observation tank only at 11/12 days of being medicated?

 

[Humblefish]

Is this because of your findings with the treatment your doing now? Or you just don't recommend other people doing it because of the difficulty maintaining O2? Thanks!

Prazipro contains Oxybispropanol (inert solubilizing agent), and mixing this with CP has led to "out of control" bacterial blooms for me in the past. So much that some of the fish literally suffocated to death, no matter how much gas exchange I provided. Switching over to powder praziquantel (as found in General Cure) has only caused mild, manageable bacterial blooms when mixed with CP.

In staying in order: we know the butterfly has symptoms of velvet, so why is it ok to transfer it to the observation tank only at 11/12 days of being medicated?

Because velvet trophonts can only remain on a fish for 4 days max (ich trophonts 7 days max). The trophont drops off, and the presence of CP (or copper) shields the fish from reinfection. So, by transferring the fish into another HT you are (in theory) leaving behind any parasite problems in the original treatment tank. I stress this is still only theoretical (but it has worked for me every time); so I still place the fish into a HT and observe for an extended period of time before rehoming. I never just put a fish directly into a DT post treatment.

 

[TCFletch]

Is it possible to transfer the fish over in just 12 days if it were ich instead of velvet?

 

[Humblefish]

Is it possible to transfer the fish over in just 12 days if it were ich instead of velvet?

In theory, yes. I have actually done this with excellent results. However (and I cannot stress this enough), you have to be certain the fish was exposed to therapeutic levels of copper or CP for the entire 12 day duration. And DO NOT drop the level prior to transferring.

You also must transfer the fish to a HT at least 10 feet away from the original treatment tank.

 

[TCFletch]

Very well stated and understood. I'm learning something new everyday. And my babies are grateful for all your life-saving assistance Mr. Humblefish. We would be at a loss without you. Thanks so much.[emoji4]

 

[Humblefish]

Very well stated and understood. I'm learning something new everyday. And my babies are grateful for all your life-saving assistance Mr. Humblefish. We would be at a loss without you. Thanks so much.[emoji4]

You're very welcome.

 

[Humblefish]

Update time! I'm having major appetite suppression and lethargy issues with all these fish. Not too surprising considering all the the meds I have dosed on top of them. Each fish will get a FW dip (to double check for flukes), and if all goes well with that then they all get transferred into a non-medicated HT tomorrow.

Here is the final list of meds I have dosed:

Day 1: 5 min FW dip + 90 min acriflavine bath, then transferred into a QT predosed with Chloroquine phosphate @ 60mg/gal. CP treats all external parasites, including velvet (for the butterfly).

Day 2: Dosed kanamycin (25mg/gal) for the Yellow Tang's infection in the AM. Dosed metronidazole (25mg/gal) and praziquantel (8mg/gal) for the Clown Tang's flukes in the PM. Water starts to turn cloudy.

Day 3: No meds; I decided against dosing nitrofurazone (another antibiotic) because the YT's infection is already looking better, and I didn't want to risk suppressing the fishes' appetites by dosing more meds.

Day 4: Dosed kanamycin (25mg/gal) for the Yellow Tang's infection in the AM. Dosed metronidazole (25mg/gal) and praziquantel (8mg/gal) for the Clown Tang's flukes in the PM.

Day 5: No meds

Day 6: Dosed kanamycin (25mg/gal) for the Yellow Tang's infection.

Day 7: No meds

Day 8: Dosed kanamycin (25mg/gal) for the Yellow Tang's infection (pretty much gone now).

Day 9: Dosed metronidazole (25mg/gal) and praziquantel (8mg/gal) - second round of treatment.

Day 10: Dosed kanamycin (25mg/gal) for the Yellow Tang's infection. Strongly considered not doing this due to all the appetite suppression, but wanted to finish up the 10 day course of treatment. Right and proper.

Day 11: Dosed metronidazole (25mg/gal) and praziquantel (8mg/gal) - final meds to be dosed before transfer in 24 hrs.

 

[Humblefish]

IT'S BEEN A DEVASTATING DAY - haven't had something like what I'm about to describe happen to me in a long time.

So, I'm getting the FW dip water ready (temperature/aeration). I decide I'm gonna dip them all together in a 5 gal bucket (I usually dip one at a time), and this was probably my first mistake. I get all the fish in there and remember I forgot to set the timer. So I run into the kitchen to set the oven timer, but when I get back I find the Clown Tang has jumped out of the bucket and hit the hard floor. What makes this even worse is I had the bucket resting on a step stool so he had farther to fall. So, I scoop him up and place him into the conditioning tank. In retrospect, I should have just put him back in QT.

I get back to the bucket and now the Yellow Tang is laying on the bottom. what the heck?! I try to move him around but he's just looking worse & worse, so I cut his FW dip short and put him in the 150 gal. I'm telling ya, I've probably done hundreds (if not thousands) of FW dips and rarely does something like this ever happen.

The Heniochus (the delicate one) seemed fine the entire time, showed no flukes and even ate before I turned the lights off (after being put into the 150.) But when I get back to the conditioning tank, the Clown Tang is now stuck to the MP40 (I even turned it down to low) so I'm sure that didn't help matters either. I put him in an acclimation box, but he never could swim right after hitting the floor and died tonight.

The Yellow Tang is just more bad news. Initially he seemed fine in the conditioning tank, but then started looking worse & worse. He then started developing these red marks (photos below) behind his pectoral fins (both sides). Similar to how the infection looked (but had cleared) near his eyes. All environmental factors (i.e. pH, ammonia) check out fine.

This photo was taken in QT just 30 mins before all the mayhem started.



This is postmortem (6 hrs later). This "red cut" appears on both sides of the fish.



According to the anatomy of a Zebrasoma Tang (below) these red marks look very close to where the liver is. I will do an autopsy tomorrow, right now I'm too exhausted.

The butterfly seems fine. Hopefully it stays that way. I was able to do a full FW dip postmortem on both tangs, no flukes showed...

 

[DLHDesign]

Sorry for those results, @Humblefish. Really appreciate you describing every part of your work - the wins and the losses. Just remember through the tough times; your every thread saves many fish lives.

 

[Humblefish]

Sorry for those results, @Humblefish. Really appreciate you describing every part of your work - the wins and the losses. Just remember through the tough times; your every thread saves many fish lives.

Thank you, I needed that.