Please help really frustrated here

[JakeNova]

When you ordered on-line did you pick up in the Store or was the Fish Shipped? That can make a difference when acclimating. Your parameters seem fine and you have an airstone going so I see nothing wrong with your Tank Setup. Chances are your Petco Live Rock brought in some parasite and your Grammas are getting sick. You need to post pics and a Video for us to diagnose your Fish. The main thing to look for is elevated respiration levels. If they were breathing hard or fast it usually means a Gill Parasite like Velvet. That can kill a fish in a matter of hours.

I have a few pics small one is from Petco bigger one was from online I floated the bag for 30 minutes before adding the fish none of them seemed like they had trouble breathing but both died with their mouth open the Petco one died when I was at work and the one from online died when I was sleeping so sadly I couldn’t see what was wrong

I had a baby royale gramma die on me. The fish shop guy put two fish from different salinity levels together. The royale gramma asphyxiated with its mouth open because it was not properly acclimated. I would recommend doing the full acclimation process with fish. With inverts i always just toss em in and they survive every time. The one time i only floated my bag and put a scoop or two of water then introduced a fish. It died within 12 hours

Edit:
I have never ordered fish online only pick up

 

[fishface NJ]

I ordered a drip accumulation kit on Amazon and I’m taking a sample of my tank water next week to my LFS to have him test it and hopefully tell me if that’s the issue or not

When I have fish shipped, I do not drip acclimate because when you open the bag there will be an ammonia spike

Acclimation Methods

Acclimating Animals to Aquariums Jay F. Hemdal c.2020 Introduction to acclimation techniques Most beginning aquarists hear that they must “acclimate” any new animals they add to their aquarium. Acclimation (sometimes termed...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[ondy6611]

I had a baby royale gramma die on me. The fish shop guy put two fish from different salinity levels together. The royale gramma asphyxiated with its mouth open because it was not properly acclimated. I would recommend doing the full acclimation process with fish. With inverts i always just toss em in and they survive every time. The one time i only floated my bag and put a scoop or two of water then introduced a fish. It died within 12 hours

Edit:
I have never ordered fish online only pick up

How do I accumulate it properly?

 

[ondy6611]

When I have fish shipped, I do not drip acclimate because when you open the bag there will be an ammonia spike

Acclimation Methods

Acclimating Animals to Aquariums Jay F. Hemdal c.2020 Introduction to acclimation techniques Most beginning aquarists hear that they must “acclimate” any new animals they add to their aquarium. Acclimation (sometimes termed...

www.reef2reef.com

Could I use ammo lock to drip accumulate?

 

[JakeNova]

I had a baby royale gramma die on me. The fish shop guy put two fish from different salinity levels together. The royale gramma asphyxiated with its mouth open because it was not properly acclimated. I would recommend doing the full acclimation process with fish. With inverts i always just toss em in and they survive every time. The one time i only floated my bag and put a scoop or two of water then introduced a fish. It died within 12 hours

Edit:
I have never ordered fish online only pick up

How do I accumulate it properly?

Dont drip acclimate if youre going to ship a fish. This is my process step by step. To ensure your fish survive you need some extra supplies that wont run you too much but is worth it for survival of your fish. Bubbler, small heater (i use an adjustable), bucket, piece of tubing, replacement salt water

1. Return from the store fish in hand
2. Put bucket on ground in front of tank or wherever your work zone is
3. Run tubing from tank to bucket
4.tie off tubing so its going into bucket & will allow air but barely
5. 2-3 drops of water per second / the time I say 1 Mississippi (siphon)
5a- Turn off siphon (you just wanted to get the drip rate)
6. Put heater and bubbler inside bucket (OFF)
7. Empty fish and water into bucket
7a. Start siphon
8. Turn on heater and bubbler
9. Wait 30-60 minutes. (Observing fish acclimate)
10. Remove fish from bucket and into display
11. Discard acclimation water
12. Put away acclimation kit ready for next time.

This is the way I do it but when a fish has to acclimate is when it is most vulnerable.

For a human its like moving from sea level to the mountains. The oxygen levels are different and is actually harder to breath if youre not used to it. It is sort of the same concept but fish will die withput acclimating first. There is more to it too but thats a really simple way of looking at acclimation

 

[ondy6611]

Dont drip acclimate if youre going to ship a fish. This is my process step by step. To ensure your fish survive you need some extra supplies that wont run you too much but is worth it for survival of your fish. Bubbler, small heater (i use an adjustable), bucket, piece of tubing, replacement salt water

1. Return from the store fish in hand
2. Put bucket on ground in front of tank or wherever your work zone is
3. Run tubing from tank to bucket
4.tie off tubing so its going into bucket & will allow air but barely
5. 2-3 drops of water per second / the time I say 1 Mississippi (siphon)
5a- Turn off siphon (you just wanted to get the drip rate)
6. Put heater and bubbler inside bucket (OFF)
7. Empty fish and water into bucket
7a. Start siphon
8. Turn on heater and bubbler
9. Wait 30-60 minutes. (Observing fish acclimate)
10. Remove fish from bucket and into display
11. Discard acclimation water
12. Put away acclimation kit ready for next time.

This is the way I do it but when a fish has to acclimate is when it is most vulnerable.

For a human its like moving from sea level to the mountains. The oxygen levels are different and is actually harder to breath if youre not used to it. It is sort of the same concept but fish will die withput acclimating first. There is more to it too but thats a really simple way of looking at acclimation

What’s the difference between that and drip acclimation? They sound like the same process

 

[JakeNova]

Dont drip acclimate if youre going to ship a fish. This is my process step by step. To ensure your fish survive you need some extra supplies that wont run you too much but is worth it for survival of your fish. Bubbler, small heater (i use an adjustable), bucket, piece of tubing, replacement salt water

1. Return from the store fish in hand
2. Put bucket on ground in front of tank or wherever your work zone is
3. Run tubing from tank to bucket
4.tie off tubing so its going into bucket & will allow air but barely
5. 2-3 drops of water per second / the time I say 1 Mississippi (siphon)
5a- Turn off siphon (you just wanted to get the drip rate)
6. Put heater and bubbler inside bucket (OFF)
7. Empty fish and water into bucket
7a. Start siphon
8. Turn on heater and bubbler
9. Wait 30-60 minutes. (Observing fish acclimate)
10. Remove fish from bucket and into display
11. Discard acclimation water
12. Put away acclimation kit ready for next time.

This is the way I do it but when a fish has to acclimate is when it is most vulnerable.

For a human its like moving from sea level to the mountains. The oxygen levels are different and is actually harder to breath if youre not used to it. It is sort of the same concept but fish will die withput acclimating first. There is more to it too but thats a really simple way of looking at acclimation

What’s the difference between that and drip acclimation? They sound like the same process

This is just that with extra precaution

 

[JakeNova]

Dont drip acclimate if youre going to ship a fish. This is my process step by step. To ensure your fish survive you need some extra supplies that wont run you too much but is worth it for survival of your fish. Bubbler, small heater (i use an adjustable), bucket, piece of tubing, replacement salt water

1. Return from the store fish in hand
2. Put bucket on ground in front of tank or wherever your work zone is
3. Run tubing from tank to bucket
4.tie off tubing so its going into bucket & will allow air but barely
5. 2-3 drops of water per second / the time I say 1 Mississippi (siphon)
5a- Turn off siphon (you just wanted to get the drip rate)
6. Put heater and bubbler inside bucket (OFF)
7. Empty fish and water into bucket
7a. Start siphon
8. Turn on heater and bubbler
9. Wait 30-60 minutes. (Observing fish acclimate)
10. Remove fish from bucket and into display
11. Discard acclimation water
12. Put away acclimation kit ready for next time.

This is the way I do it but when a fish has to acclimate is when it is most vulnerable.

For a human its like moving from sea level to the mountains. The oxygen levels are different and is actually harder to breath if youre not used to it. It is sort of the same concept but fish will die withput acclimating first. There is more to it too but thats a really simple way of looking at acclimation

What’s the difference between that and drip acclimation? They sound like the same process

This is just that with extra precaution

I say this because whats the point of not trying to give your fish the best chance at survival? Acclimation is the most vulnerable step in my opinion.

 

[ondy6611]

This is just that with extra precaution

Should I use ammo lock? I’m worried because some sources say ammonia spike will kill the fish

I say this because whats the point of not trying to give your fish the best chance at survival? Acclimation is the most vulnerable step in my opinion.

 

[commod0re]

No ammo lock doesn’t work for this, safer to just follow the directions given already

 

[JakeNova]

This is just that with extra precaution

Should I use ammo lock? I’m worried because some sources say ammonia spike will kill the fish

I say this because whats the point of not trying to give your fish the best chance at survival? Acclimation is the most vulnerable step in my opinion.

I havent done that but people on these forums have had success with dosing ammo lock or prime to the water the fish was shipped in. You must put the ammolock in quickly before the fish dies from ammonia. I read people preaching all ways. People saying do not drip acclimate, to drip acclimate, to use ammolock or prime and drip acclimate. Its all about you doing it the proper way.

Honestly i see your situation. 1st died from the lfs and 2nd died when you put it right in. If you intend of shipping another fish this could be the path you want to take.

Id look up some other peoples experience using ammolock for acclimation.

 

[commod0re]

Prime is a dechlorinator and does nothing for ammonia

 

[JakeNova]

Prime is a dechlorinator and does nothing for ammonia

Seachem claims it detoxify ammonia

 

[commod0re]

Seachem claims it detoxify ammonia

they do and they’re liars

 

[JakeNova]

Seachem claims it detoxify ammonia

they do and they’re liars

Im starting to think about what OP said. Typically id think the fish would perish within a few hours of being added if acclimation were the issue

 

[JakeNova]

This feels like an acclimation issue vs anything else.

How were the fish acclimated? VERY frequently fish stores will run their tanks at a lower salinity level than we keep our tanks at.

With both fish I just floated the bag for 30 minutes. I have 2 clownfish in another tank I did this with a few months ago and they’re doing fine. Are Royal grammas more sensitive?

I have heard stories of people using royale grammas to test tanks because theyre so sensitive. If it dies or gets infected then they know.

 

[Mebbid]

Im starting to think about what OP said. Typically id think the fish would perish within a few hours of being added if acclimation were the issue

Generally, if the fish dies within around 24 hours of being added then that's a pretty safe bet that acclimation was the issue.

In a tank that's been fishless for weeks there's just not going to be a large enough population of parasites to cause enough damage to kill a fish that quickly. Any decent online retailer isn't going to ship a fish that's on the verge of death, and one that's that close to dying is going to be pretty obvious in the store when picking them out.

 

[JakeNova]

Im starting to think about what OP said. Typically id think the fish would perish within a few hours of being added if acclimation were the issue

Generally, if the fish dies within around 24 hours of being added then that's a pretty safe bet that acclimation as the issue.

In a tank that's been fishless for weeks there's just not going to be a large enough population of parasites to cause enough damage to kill a fish that quickly.

I assumed it would be faster than 24 hours. I had 2 royale grammas in my time already. The first one was my first fish and i watched it die to gill flukes. I didnt know what to do until after. I watched it suffer then infect my goby The 2nd one asphyxiated because the guy working at the store was dumb and mixed 2 systems for my fish. The gramma was the one added into the other systems water. The other fish is still with me today. Ive gotten another fish along side each gramma and theyre both still with me while the grammas perished.

 

[Mebbid]

I assumed it would be faster than 24 hours. I had 2 royale grammas in my time already. The first one was my first fish and i watched it die to gill flukes. I didnt know what to do until after. I watched it suffer then infect my goby The 2nd one asphyxiated because the guy working at the store was dumb and mixed 2 systems for my fish. The gramma was the one added into the other systems water. The other fish is still with me today. Ive gotten another fish along side each gramma and theyre both still with me while the grammas perished.

Generally, yes. But it can really be up to a couple days afterwards, it's just less common the further out you go.

 

[W31Olds]

I checked out the pics of your first Gramma. He has a chunk of his tail missing and also what looks to be a spot of Ich. This could be a combination of factors with the stress of acclimation and a weakened Fish that has health issues going on. He does look lively in the Video so not likely Acclimation. Usually, they just sit on the bottom or are lethargic with something like that.
As far as prevention goes, if it were my Tank I would do a large Water Change and then Fallow it for 60 Days before adding another Fish. You would need to ghost Feed the Tank to maintain the Filter.
I have a Gramma in my Tank and it's one of my Favorite Fish. He loves to hide in little, tiny holes and crevasses and is a fierce little guy that will nip at my hand when I'm cleaning. All my other large fish cower.

@Jay Hemdal