PO4 not getting down

[promotheus2070]

Hi ,
I am trying to get my phospates more down for the last couple weeks .
Nothing seems to work to get them under 0.1 .
It feels like im adding more phospates in than im pulling out .

I am running now a nyos torq for approx 1 month with gfo/carbon twice the required gfo dose needed .
Before using the nyos torq i had the gfo in a bag near the sump pump . This had same result's

Any ideas why it wont lower ?

 

[Dan_P]

Hi ,
I am trying to get my phospates more down for the last couple weeks .
Nothing seems to work to get them under 0.1 .
It feels like im adding more phospates in than im pulling out .

I am running now a nyos torq for approx 1 month with gfo/carbon twice the required gfo dose needed .
Before using the nyos torq i had the gfo in a bag near the sump pump . This had same result's

Any ideas why it wont lower ?

The GFO probably needs to be replaced more often. One way to tell when the GFO is exhausted is test the water leaving the reactor. If the PO4 concentration is not lower than the aquarium water PO4 concentration, the GFO is exhausted.

 

[Reef.]

It will work, you are either not changing it often enough or adding more po4 than it’s removing…not familiar with that reactor but if possible check the effluent it should be zero po4 coming out, turn up the flow to a highish lvl whilst still ke ping it at zero, check regularly to see when it starts to contain po4 then replace, also remover your po4 nay not look like it’s decreasing in the tank at first as the rocks will release any po4 they are holding when you remove it from the water.

 

[fishyjoes]

What are you feeding? Some foods are much higher in phosphate than others.
I got my phosphate under control with "Phosphate RX" and by avoiding high phosphate foods.

There is a good article on the subject
https://reefs.com/magazine/aquarium-chemistry-phosphate-and-math-yes-you-need-to-understand-both/
From the broader phosphate article
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/phosphate-in-the-reef-aquarium.9/

 

[mboley]

Latham Chloride works well.

 

[VintageReefer]

If your using reef roids at all, stop.

The phosphate will eventually come down but the the media needs to be changed very often. Sometimes every few days. For weeks and months.

I question…do you have a reason to want the phosphate below .1? It if because “it’s what you heard?” Or do you actually have an issue.

I keep mine .3-.4

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I would not claim you need to do anything different.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/randy’s-thoughts-on-nutrient-target-ranges.1087/

• 4. What targets seem reasonable? Of course, that depends on all the other factors at play, such as types of corals, availability of ammonia, particulate foods, etc. However, for a mature mixed reef, this would be how I personally would run it:
  • Let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
  • Above 50 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by organic carbon dosing, turf or macroalgae, etc.
  • Below 5 ppm, I’d begin to dose ammonia or feed more. The target level might drop lower if dosing ammonia, just like the heavy in/heavy out scenario where nitrate may not be as needed.
  • Let phosphate float between about 0.06 ppm and 0.3 ppm. This range is higher than I’ve recommended in the past. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
  • Above about 0.3 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by turf or macroalgae, or a binder such as GFO or lanthanum (has its own risks to tangs). If a binder: GO SLOW. Turf and macroalgae will typically be slow enough.
  • Below 0.06 ppm, I’d begin to dose sodium phosphate or feed more to get the level up.

 

[get-salty]

If your using reef roids at all, stop.

The phosphate will eventually come down but the the media needs to be changed very often. Sometimes every few days. For weeks and months.

I question…do you have a reason to want the phosphate below .1? It if because “it’s what you heard?” Or do you actually have an issue.

I keep mine .3-.4

Very good point here..

Often enough, id say most new reefers likely to aim for them #s or "chasing the numbers". I get it, you dont know these things when you first start out.

However, I also think chasing #s is a good thing.. it teaches you water chemistry - to a certain point, you dont want too much or too little of the nutrients. There is that sweet spot, the spot where all of your corals are happy, grow, and thrive. This could be having po4 of .1 or .5.... Ultimately, remember that you cannot rush the cycle/process in this hobby. You rush. You fail. Simply that.

with that said... Cheers and happy reefing !

 

[promotheus2070]

If your using reef roids at all, stop.

The phosphate will eventually come down but the the media needs to be changed very often. Sometimes every few days. For weeks and months.

I question…do you have a reason to want the phosphate below .1? It if because “it’s what you heard?” Or do you actually have an issue.

I keep mine .3-.4

At levels until .3 i notice no problems , after that i see browning monti

The GFO probably needs to be replaced more often. One way to tell when the GFO is exhausted is test the water leaving the reactor. If the PO4 concentration is not lower than the aquarium water PO4 concentration, the GFO is exhausted.

Good idea :) ill try that out .
For now i replace every 7 tot 14 days the gfo .

 

[promotheus2070]

What are you feeding? Some foods are much higher in phosphate than others.
I got my phosphate under control with "Phosphate RX" and by avoiding high phosphate foods.

There is a good article on the subject
https://reefs.com/magazine/aquarium-chemistry-phosphate-and-math-yes-you-need-to-understand-both/
From the broader phosphate article
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/phosphate-in-the-reef-aquarium.9/

I had a same idea . I do notice higher po4 levels when using more pellet food's . Especialy the aquaforrest food's

 

[promotheus2070]

If your using reef roids at all, stop.

The phosphate will eventually come down but the the media needs to be changed very often. Sometimes every few days. For weeks and months.

I question…do you have a reason to want the phosphate below .1? It if because “it’s what you heard?” Or do you actually have an issue.

I keep mine .3-.4

My problems as in browning monti and troubles with soft corals / leathers start above .3 levels of phospate i seem to see .
Also i cannot keep a torch alive in my tank for one reason unknown yet .
The most obvious would be the higher po4 levels so that was the first thing i would like to change .
The level of below .1 is what ive read .

 

[promotheus2070]

I am running a stable 15.0 nitrates with carbon dosing

 

[promotheus2070]

I would not claim you need to do anything different.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/randy’s-thoughts-on-nutrient-target-ranges.1087/

• 4. What targets seem reasonable? Of course, that depends on all the other factors at play, such as types of corals, availability of ammonia, particulate foods, etc. However, for a mature mixed reef, this would be how I personally would run it:
  • Let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
  • Above 50 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by organic carbon dosing, turf or macroalgae, etc.
  • Below 5 ppm, I’d begin to dose ammonia or feed more. The target level might drop lower if dosing ammonia, just like the heavy in/heavy out scenario where nitrate may not be as needed.
  • Let phosphate float between about 0.06 ppm and 0.3 ppm. This range is higher than I’ve recommended in the past. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
  • Above about 0.3 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by turf or macroalgae, or a binder such as GFO or lanthanum (has its own risks to tangs). If a binder: GO SLOW. Turf and macroalgae will typically be slow enough.
  • Below 0.06 ppm, I’d begin to dose sodium phosphate or feed more to get the level up.

Thanks for the information . Would u also say that i can keep po4 levels based on my nitrate level ?
lets say a tank with higher nitrates would be better of or could handle higher po4 levels ?

 

[VintageReefer]

Thanks for the information . Would u also say that i can keep po4 levels based on my nitrate level ?
lets say a tank with higher nitrates would be better of or could handle higher po4 levels ?

My nitrates are approx 10-15 and phosphate .3

If corals aren’t happy with that, mine didn’t get the memo

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for the information . Would u also say that i can keep po4 levels based on my nitrate level ?
lets say a tank with higher nitrates would be better of or could handle higher po4 levels ?

Once nitrate and phosphate are above limiting growth levels, having more of one does not really impact the pros and cons of elevated levels of the other.

 

[BryanM]

I would not worry about getting it down to these .03-.06 "vanity" numbers, personally I think thats dangerously close to bottoming out, and will cause more harm than good.

My tank is running .2x, and things seem to be quite happy.

 

[promotheus2070]

Is my reasoning correct?
Can phosphate-binding media like GFO ever be truly effective without using a protein skimmer?
If I use GFO without a skimmer, does the phosphate stay in the water?
How should I look at this from a practical perspective?

 

[Pod_01]

Is my reasoning correct?
Can phosphate-binding media like GFO ever be truly effective without using a protein skimmer?
If I use GFO without a skimmer, does the phosphate stay in the water?
How should I look at this from a practical perspective?

GFO does not require skimmer to work. Phosphate bind to GFO until the water column phosphate and phosphate bound to GFO are at equilibrium, once at equilibrium (phosphate levels don’t change) you need to replace the GFO.
It is best to use small amounts and change it frequently/ daily vs. using large quantities that will shock the corals.

My experience with GFO has been negative and I don’t use it, others make it work.

Good luck,

 

[promotheus2070]

GFO does not require skimmer to work. Phosphate bind to GFO until the water column phosphate and phosphate bound to GFO are at equilibrium, once at equilibrium (phosphate levels don’t change) you need to replace the GFO.
It is best to use small amounts and change it frequently/ daily vs. using large quantities that will shock the corals.

My experience with GFO has been negative and I don’t use it, others make it work.

Good luck,

I am thinking its doing is thing but i Just dont get Down to where i want it to be or let it stay there , even with weekly gfo changes tbh

 

[get-salty]

Is my reasoning correct?
Can phosphate-binding media like GFO ever be truly effective without using a protein skimmer?
If I use GFO without a skimmer, does the phosphate stay in the water?
How should I look at this from a practical perspective?

be careful when using GFO. id start by adding a small amount into a media bag and throw it in the sump somewhere with flow. do your normal po4 tests to see the change. increase your dose little by little. if you dont see a change within a couple of wks. id try using a reactor and again, start out w/ small amount of GFO as well.