I am the same way about Facebook, tiktok, etc…
It is a difficult poll - because nearly ALL of the 'advice' on R2R is 'opinion'. Even the posts supposedly 'backed-up' by science are based on that poster's reading of the actual paper - which may be decades old, and already disproven - or it may be being mis-read by the poster. Also - to get a firm grasp on 'science' - it takes more than one paper to prove a point - no matter what the topic. IMHO, most of the advice given on the site is done in order to help people as compared to some malicious intent.
In that case no reefers can replicate PaulB's success because no one has a tank that old? It seems like a circular 'opinion' - and no offense to you - I don't understand the logic. Is it the age of the tank that causes the success? or the Method that causes the age which defines the success? If its the second, then anyone can replicate Paul B's method, and thus if they keep a tank that long, they will have the same success (IMHO)
You are correct, it will not work in a new tank. Especially if you are using dry rock and ASW. Nothing will work in a new tank because no new tanks are healthy. I wrote an article in my book about this but somewhere in the beginning of my book it reads, "This book is not for Noobs with a new tank" or something like that.
Noobs will always have problems but it is not your fault so don't beat yourself up. It is the bacteria and other micro fauna's fault. Those are the things that run our tanks, not you. They determine when you can add corals, when certain fish can be added and when the tank will generally be healthy. It will not happen in a year or two, sorry.
But to make you feel better, this hobby has no end (I just posted this someplace) There is no time you will say, I finally did it and can call my tank a success. (I can and will explain)
Keeping a tank is like sailing an expensive Yacht. You don't really want to get any place, you are enjoying the journey, the scenery, the breeze, and gentle water splashing on you, the conversation and wine.
The only end to that pleasure is the dock at the end. Unless of course you sink. Just like your tank crashing.
If you wanted to get someplace, why would you board a very expensive piece of machinery and go maybe 5 MPH while getting splashed?
In March of this year my reef will be running fifty years. All of the time that I have had this tank running I said many times that I won't call it a success until it is 50 years old. That is the age I placed on what I can call success. Some people may say 6 months is success. That is their goal.
I also said many times, that if it runs 50 years I will call my theory about not quarantining and how bacteria and parasites react with the tank correct.
I think that time is long enough to prove my thoughts as no scientific test lasts that long.
All the people for almost 50 years that keep saying "I have been lucky" that velvet didn't crash my tank are wrong. It is not luck and in March I will call it a success. If it crashes then. It is still a success.
Using my own criteria for my own tank, I can't call any quarantined tank a success until one reaches 50 years old. I am not sure how long I can wait because as my tank has been aging, I have not been in a coma or in space traveling faster than the speed of light looking for the end of the universe which I know is a brick wall with tar paper on top and beyond that, Strawberry fields forever.
Prove me wrong.
I think this can be where some of the problems come from: is the ignorant question ignorant by choice or lack of experience/education? We all start in ignorance, but not necessarily intentional ignorance by choosing to ignore the advice and experience of others. If someone is willing to learn and asking questions in good faith, albeit in ignorance, we should help to educate without belittling his/her ignorance. Education and experience do not come immediately and will usually take more time than it does for a thread to spiral out of control with the wrong responses. If the community belittles ignorance, it will drive away new members who may have been willing to learn but are not given the opportunity. I do understand the desire to respond with sarcasm and ignorant answers, but we should be careful not to do this to a willing-to-learn beginner or at least make sure it is meant in fun to point out how important it is for each of us to do our own research rather than just asking someone else to do that work for us.
I also think we should be careful about this. I personally enjoy the humor of these responses since I recognize how over-the-top the answer is and that it is done to point out how absurd the question is from the viewpoint of someone with experience or who has done much research, but I only recognize the joke because of my own level of research and forum interaction to recognize the typical responses and assess what I understand to be the right answer, thus understanding the sarcasm/exaggeration. To a new member, though, this often seems to be taken as belittlement of his/her lack of experience (true of ALL beginners) and encourages in the new member a perception of elitism in the community.
Existence to cater to the lowest common denominator has killed humor, intelligent discussion and a lot of other important things a functioning society needs.Can we vote for all of the options at once?
If it is based on what I determine through continued research, I would rank this highly.
If it is based on all information available, though, there is plenty shared that does not agree with my continued research.
I do not look at "The R2R Opinion" as one collective, so I do my own research on the opinions to compare to other opinions. I do not give anyone a free pass simply because of my opinion of that person. Rather, I understand that we all have opinions but we cannot confirm absolute truth of our opinion. By this I always put opinions to the test of research, including my own, and never assume my opinions to be the certain truth.
So far, I believe I find good advice on this forum, but I have to filter it out of the negative or ignorant responses and regurgitated information without evidence of understanding the given information.
I try to only share my opinion if I believe it to be strongly supported by information and experiences (mine and/or those of others) that I am willing to share and discuss or have challenged. Having a good measure of humility is also important so I can understand that I will never know everything and that, even with things I believe to be true, I could be the one that is wrong.
I think this can be where some of the problems come from: is the ignorant question ignorant by choice or lack of experience/education? We all start in ignorance, but not necessarily intentional ignorance by choosing to ignore the advice and experience of others. If someone is willing to learn and asking questions in good faith, albeit in ignorance, we should help to educate without belittling his/her ignorance. Education and experience do not come immediately and will usually take more time than it does for a thread to spiral out of control with the wrong responses. If the community belittles ignorance, it will drive away new members who may have been willing to learn but are not given the opportunity. I do understand the desire to respond with sarcasm and ignorant answers, but we should be careful not to do this to a willing-to-learn beginner or at least make sure it is meant in fun to point out how important it is for each of us to do our own research rather than just asking someone else to do that work for us.
That becomes the difficult part: assessing whether the new member is willing to learn or choosing the path of ignorance since the preconceived desired answer was not given as the advice.
I also think we should be careful about this. I personally enjoy the humor of these responses since I recognize how over-the-top the answer is and that it is done to point out how absurd the question is from the viewpoint of someone with experience or who has done much research, but I only recognize the joke because of my own level of research and forum interaction to recognize the typical responses and assess what I understand to be the right answer, thus understanding the sarcasm/exaggeration. To a new member, though, this often seems to be taken as belittlement of his/her lack of experience (true of ALL beginners) and encourages in the new member a perception of elitism in the community.
By the way, this is not directed personally at all at either of you, @zoa what and @WVNed , since I have quite enjoyed and appreciated responses from both of you in different threads.
My personal view is not that sarcasm/jokes/ignorant answers should be avoided, but rather that we should be careful when and how they are expressed and the direction of the continued discussion afterward. I think we should try to make jokes clear (which is more difficult in online text only) and offer useful advice as well with the intent to help educate and to inspire desire for personal research.
Yes, I understand and tend to agree, though my first posted response will typically be out of the pity for the ignorance and will be advice to help rather than automatically moving toward cynicism (even if my first mental response is "here we go again/did you even try to look this up first?"). This is not out of an effort to give the "Everyone's a Winner" award but to start with some respect out of common decency until that respect is destroyed, and to take an opportunity to encourage doing research.
I just "started" a new thread (without posting) to test the question on previous discussions and confirmed that it was here on this forum that I had seen such a feature before. That is a big step to help the situation even though it is not forced. Of course, I don't think forcing research is really feasible or reasonably regulatable, so my ideas are pretty limited at this point of what more can be done or even if I think more should be done. I like and appreciate where R2R is, which is why this is one of my primary forums.
