Pro Reef salt from Turkey

LiamPM

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You can see how TM are finding this difficult though. Someone mentioned an odd smell and now others are smelling it. But before it was citrus, and now it is chalk? Is it the same thing, something else or nothing?

And does anyone (other than TM) know where the German salt comes from? It could always have been mixed/prepared in Germany but sourced from somewhere else. There must be a reason why Turkey was chosen as a manufacturing facility. It could be financial, technical or location (or all of them). Turkey is by the Black Sea, which I guess could potentially be a good source for salt. There seems to be a suggestion that Germany is good but Turkey is bad, with no proof other than perception. Even if it is just the salt from Turkey having the issue, it might not be because it is coming from Turkey!

Whilst googling to try to find the answer to the question of the origins of TM salt, I stumbled across a forum from 2014, where someone was complaining about brown residue in the mixing bin from TM pro. Other people didn’t appear to have the same observations; that seems to be a bit like what is going on now. That forum then referenced an article from Randy Holmes-Farley that talked about precipitation in salt mixes.

I’m not saying that people aren’t experiencing something they weren’t before but maybe, as it is now being highlighted, others are looking to see if they have issues when they previously didn’t. If I said ‘do you have an itchy head?’ how many people now have itchy heads that didn’t before? Probably a bad example but if you’re looking to find something you probably will.
For reference - I itched my head :rolleyes:

Ive used and gone through quite a number of buckets over the past year (or since April) and have never noticed any difference between them. No smell, no residue. I havent taken any notice of the manufacturing location in all honesty but would like to think id have had at least one from the Tukey facility with the amount ive used.

Fingers crossed they can identify some form of reasoning. Nothing worse than being told theres an issue and not being able to replicate it - Those are the worst kinds of "issues".
 

Slicktop

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I have 2 boxes from Turkey bought from BRS sitting in my fish room unopened. I will mix in new white bucket at 77* and see if I have brown residue. I have not had this issue before with TMP. If I have brown residue its going in the trash and if not I will use. I will post pics of this process. I see the Turkey address on the boxes but do not see a Batch #. Can someone tell me where this is located on the box? In the meantime this thread needs to stay open, as IMO nothing could be more important in this hobby until this has been resolved.
 

xiaoxiy

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I have 2 boxes from Turkey bought from BRS sitting in my fish room unopened. I will mix in new white bucket at 77* and see if I have brown residue. I have not had this issue before with TMP. If I have brown residue its going in the trash and if not I will use. I will post pics of this process. I see the Turkey address on the boxes but do not see a Batch #. Can someone tell me where this is located on the box? In the meantime this thread needs to stay open, as IMO nothing could be more important in this hobby until this has been resolved.
On the buckets, Batch number is right above where location of manufacturing is printed: "Art-N xxxxx"
 

Hans-Werner

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Your help is much appreciated, but, sorry, the Art-N° is not the batch. I am not sure where the batch number of the boxes and buckets from Turkey is, it should be a paper sticker. I think on the buckets it is under the bottom. Lou will jump in with better and more complete information.
 

Lou Ekus

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I have 2 boxes from Turkey bought from BRS sitting in my fish room unopened. I will mix in new white bucket at 77* and see if I have brown residue. I have not had this issue before with TMP. If I have brown residue its going in the trash and if not I will use. I will post pics of this process. I see the Turkey address on the boxes but do not see a Batch #. Can someone tell me where this is located on the box? In the meantime this thread needs to stay open, as IMO nothing could be more important in this hobby until this has been resolved.
The lot number, on the boxes, whether they are from Turkey or from Germany, will usually be located on the right, left, front or back panel of the box.
I am no chemist but I wonder if the wave action of a pump or even the heat of a pump would facilitate the precipitation some are seeing (meaning you cannot replicate it)? Just trying to be helpful but again I am no chemist.
This "could" be true, or part of the issue, but you would have expected to see it before, under the same circumstances. Makes me wonder why it would be showing up more now than the very few times it has shown up in the past. But thank you for the suggestion.
 

spicymikey

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From our side nothing has changed. We know about the manganese concentrations stated above for years and they haven't changed.

We now know for sure that precipitates are mainly manganese and every image I see shows exactly the same blackish-brown color typical for manganese oxides.

I don't know what has changed on your side. From our side neither the suppliers nor the quality we buy has changed, and also the mixing procedure remains the same.

The quality control has even improved, we now have ICP-OES, and otherwise it stayed the same for years, six samples each batch tested for the main parameters in our laboratory before the salt leaves our house.

Regarding the precipitates, I guess, if you don't look you won't see. For me there is no other explanation.

I make this for more than twenty years now and I know that the first thing problems are blamed to is the salt.

If you cooperate we can seriously look for the root causes of the problems open to all directions or we can continue this blame game.
I was willing to give TM the benefit of the doubt. Manufacturing and supplier problems happen all the time, especially right now. But this was NOT the right answer. Should have said we are looking into this and promise to correct any the quality problems we might find immediately. I understand liability concerns. I understand this is a business. But you just turned an excusable problem into a trust issue which now will make me move to another salt.
 

Hans-Werner

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Please see for example this article on "geomicrobiology of manganese(II) oxidation":
Manganese (Mn) (II)-oxidizing microorganisms, primarily
bacteria and fungi, accelerate the rate of Mn biomineralization
several orders of magnitude faster than either
abiotic catalysis on mineral surfaces or homogeneous
oxygenation in aqueous solution [1]. This biogeochemical
process has gained much attention in recent years because
Mn(III,IV) oxide minerals are abundant in terrestrial and
marine environments.
Mn(II)-oxidizing bacteria are ubiquitous in nature
(Table 1). Isolated from virtually any environmental
sample, they are most conspicuous when there is an
adequate supply of reduced Mn(II), such as in oxic–anoxic
transition zones or at hydrothermal vents.
 

xiaoxiy

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Your help is much appreciated, but, sorry, the Art-N° is not the batch. I am not sure where the batch number of the boxes and buckets from Turkey is, it should be a paper sticker. I think on the buckets it is under the bottom. Lou will jump in with better and more complete information.
Ope! That’s good to know. What is that Art-N?
 

Slicktop

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I found the lot numbers and they are 213511 and 212853. These numbers were on a sticker on the box. Does anyone know if these are the lot numbers in question?
 

GillMeister

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FYI - I just mixed up a batch of german made pro salt for some incoming corals. No slime, no smell, no precipitate. Mixed up clear and clean in under an hour. Batch 11512076.
That should validate any assumptions Hans might have that Germany is superior.
 

DWill

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Article Number is NOT the batch number. The batch number will be either 6 or eight digits. On boxes it is on one of the side panels. On buckets it is on the lid.
Lou, just a heads up the lids of my mix from Turkey are blank. The batch number is on a sticker on the bottom of the bucket. Looking at old German buckets the batch numbers are all stamped on the lid.
 

Lou Ekus

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Lou, just a heads up the lids of my mix from Turkey are blank. The batch number is on a sticker on the bottom of the bucket. Looking at old German buckets the batch numbers are all stamped on the lid.
We have since moved the lot sticker from the bottom of the buckets to the lid of the buckets on the salt made in the facility in Turkey. Some buckets are still out there with the sticker on the bottom. But they often come off. So now they are all on the top.
 

Hans-Werner

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I found the lot numbers and they are 213511 and 212853. These numbers were on a sticker on the box. Does anyone know if these are the lot numbers in question?

Batch 11512076.
Thank you, these sound good.

The "German batch" is from a box, according to the records.
 

Kingston

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Don't know what to do after reading through this thread. I have lost all the Acros frags I got from the fraghouse black Friday sale. I don't know what to blame but I was leaning more towards lights. Now I am scratching my head. Unfortunately I still have this pile all from the black Friday sale and all manufactured in Turkey....
 

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