Pro Reef salt from Turkey

Lou Ekus

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BMW you are correct. I will also add that having owned at least one BMW, typically M cars, continuously since 1980 the quality of the cars assembled in the US is far below those assembled in Germany. I won’t buy a US produced BMW.

Back to the topic. I’m the same issues with the Turkish TMP. After using about a half bucket I’ve also started noticing differences in water parameters which thanks to careful notes and record keeping I quickly chased to a time frame shortly after I began using Turkey produced TMP. I’ve already posted a pic in this thread of a small container that is completely brown. This container has only TMP missed water and the brown “gunk” showed up shortly after I began using Turkish TMP.

I believe TM will find and solve the problems. My plan in the meantime is to use ESV mix. I’m really not looking forward to the extra steps mixing new water. I believe though it won’t take too long for TM to correct the issues we are seeing.
I am very sorry that you are having this issue. Tropic Marin takes every customer complaint very seriously. We are working very hard to determine if there is any foundation, from the manufacturing standpoint, for complaints like this. The most helpful thing for us is to compile data that we can analyze. In the end, hoping it points to a root cause. To that end, it would be extremely helpful if you could fill out this very short salt survey. It really only takes a couple of minutes to complete. This is the kind of data that will help us track this down.
Tropic Marin Salt Questionnaire

If you are also able to collect any of the residue, a sample, sent to our office will be extremely helpful. Our office address is 44 Center Street, Montague Massachusetts, 01351.

Thank you in advance for any of this that you can do. The information you provide is essential in our efforts to help you!
 

Brian’sBrain

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I would like to share that this nasty black slime/sludge I have in my mixing container are from German buckets only! I’ve noticed it in my last two buckets.

I have a Turkey made bucket sitting in storage for the past couple of months because I have been hesitant to use it since these issues, but again, I’m having this with German buckets.

324084DB-7A8F-40A5-A42F-9B4AE9DF2887.jpeg
 

((FORDTECH))

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I am very sorry that you are having this issue. Tropic Marin takes every customer complaint very seriously. We are working very hard to determine if there is any foundation, from the manufacturing standpoint, for complaints like this. The most helpful thing for us is to compile data that we can analyze. In the end, hoping it points to a root cause. To that end, it would be extremely helpful if you could fill out this very short salt survey. It really only takes a couple of minutes to complete. This is the kind of data that will help us track this down.
Tropic Marin Salt Questionnaire

If you are also able to collect any of the residue, a sample, sent to our office will be extremely helpful. Our office address is 44 Center Street, Montague Massachusetts, 01351.

Thank you in advance for any of this that you can do. The information you provide is essential in our efforts to help you!
Thank you for your reply I will fill out the form. I also took a screen shot so I can have the address and when I figure out how I will get a sample but I’m not sure how I will do with without some type of Telescoping device to get to the bottom. Maybe I could somehow use a q-tip and rub it on the bottom some how and send it in Along with water sample.
 

Brian’sBrain

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Thank you for your reply I will fill out the form. I also took a screen shot so I can have the address and when I figure out how I will get a sample but I’m not sure how I will do with without some type of Telescoping device to get to the bottom. Maybe I could somehow use a q-tip and rub it on the bottom some how and send it in Along with water sample.
I asked the same question. Lou said wiping with a paper towel and sealing in a zip lock will suffice for analysis
 

Hans-Werner

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Nevertheless, in running tanks Fe and Mn usually are below the detection limits of ICP-OES. I think most of these two trace metals is precipitated by bacteria quite rapidly. If water is circulated for some time in the mixing tanks bacteria will grow which will precipitate manganese. We have checked the resulting brown "dust" with ICP-OES, and it hast turned out to be mainly manganese as I had expected. The blackish-brown color like the Söchting Oxidator ceramic is quite typical.

I would like to share that this nasty black slime/sludge I have in my mixing container are from German buckets only! I’ve noticed it in my last two buckets.
It is exactly what I have stated before. What may look slimy looks and feels like dust to me when taking a closer look. Maybe if it remains in the tub for some time bacterial growth might render it more slimy. Finally also the cause of the precipitates and the reason why manganese and iron "disappear" so fast from tank water are bacteria.

For me the last posts show quite clearly that everything seems quite normal so far, nothing special seen yet.
 

Duffer

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It is exactly what I have stated before. What may look slimy looks and feels like dust to me when taking a closer look. Maybe if it remains in the tub for some time bacterial growth might render it more slimy. Finally also the cause of the precipitates and the reason why manganese and iron "disappear" so fast from tank water are bacteria.

For me the last posts show quite clearly that everything seems quite normal so far, nothing special seen yet.
Hans
i think the problem lies where you say quite normal is folks like myself that have used TMP for years have never experience brown residue, slimy, etc with your salt...so to us this is not normal and very concerned..
 

90's reefer

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Anyone try running a small bag of rox in their mixing container.
I do that with IO as it always leaves a residue.
The carbon pics all of it up and the water is crystal clear with no residue in the brute.
Have no issues.
 
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poidog

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Hans
i think the problem lies where you say quite normal is folks like myself that have used TMP for years have never experience brown residue, slimy, etc with your salt...so to us this is not normal and very concerned..
Exactly what I also was going to say. Unless this is the “new normal” with TM salts, this is not normal.
 

Hans-Werner

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But TMP has never had an issue with manganese precipitation before. What changed?
From our side nothing has changed. We know about the manganese concentrations stated above for years and they haven't changed.

We now know for sure that precipitates are mainly manganese and every image I see shows exactly the same blackish-brown color typical for manganese oxides.

I don't know what has changed on your side. From our side neither the suppliers nor the quality we buy has changed, and also the mixing procedure remains the same.

The quality control has even improved, we now have ICP-OES, and otherwise it stayed the same for years, six samples each batch tested for the main parameters in our laboratory before the salt leaves our house.

Regarding the precipitates, I guess, if you don't look you won't see. For me there is no other explanation.

I make this for more than twenty years now and I know that the first thing problems are blamed to is the salt.

If you cooperate we can seriously look for the root causes of the problems open to all directions or we can continue this blame game.
 

rtparty

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The next place I would look if this was happening to me would be my water source and RODI unit.

Most of the issues seem to have started in November. Many water companies change their formulas at the plant between winter and summer. Maybe they switched to chloramines and the RO units were not ready for that switch? So now we have ammonia making it through? This usually affects fish more than coral but not a bad place to look.

Just spitballing here
 

Cell

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From our side nothing has changed. We know about the manganese concentrations stated above for years and they haven't changed.

We now know for sure that precipitates are mainly manganese and every image I see shows exactly the same blackish-brown color typical for manganese oxides.

I don't know what has changed on your side. From our side neither the suppliers nor the quality we buy has changed, and also the mixing procedure remains the same.

The quality control has even improved, we now have ICP-OES, and otherwise it stayed the same for years, six samples each batch tested for the main parameters in our laboratory before the salt leaves our house.

Regarding the precipitates, I guess, if you don't look you won't see. For me there is no other explanation.

I make this for more than twenty years now and I know that the first thing problems are blamed to is the salt.

If you cooperate we can seriously look for the root causes of the problems open to all directions or we can continue this blame game.

I'm not sure I would characterize this as a "blame game". People are having legitimate issues and are legitimately concerned. I think perhaps you are underestimating the reason people pay a premium for your salt. Whether or not manganese precipitation causes adverse issues, the salt is no longer mixing clean which is the #1 reason most people use this salt.

So are you saying on your side, you have always had precipitate? If you don't have precipitate, do you have any theories on why all of the sudden multiple users are having precipitate? Surely there must be some chemistry answer here.
 
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poidog

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From our side nothing has changed. We know about the manganese concentrations stated above for years and they haven't changed.

We now know for sure that precipitates are mainly manganese and every image I see shows exactly the same blackish-brown color typical for manganese oxides.

I don't know what has changed on your side. From our side neither the suppliers nor the quality we buy has changed, and also the mixing procedure remains the same.

The quality control has even improved, we now have ICP-OES, and otherwise it stayed the same for years, six samples each batch tested for the main parameters in our laboratory before the salt leaves our house.

Regarding the precipitates, I guess, if you don't look you won't see. For me there is no other explanation.

I make this for more than twenty years now and I know that the first thing problems are blamed to is the salt.

If you cooperate we can seriously look for the root causes of the problems open to all directions or we can continue this blame game.
Wow Hans, this is a pretty horrible answer. So you want to bury your head in the sand and blame the consumers now and deny all possibilities that this could be TM’s issue to fix? You have had many people come forward all stating they are experiencing new issues with your salt as of late, a majority of them with salt from the new Turkish facility.

I for one have not done anything different in my mixing procedures. I can mix the Turkish and German made salts side by side and will only experience the difference with the Turkish made salt. SOMETHING IS DIFFERENT. it may be batch specific and this is not the norm, who knows - that’s why we’re here asking you - the company. It may be something else in the salt that isn’t the “main parameters” you’re testing for, a pollutant or different compound possibly?

With this response you’ve lost me as a customer, a 15+ year customer. If you can’t pull your head out of the sand and realize you may have a production problem on your hands you’re going to loose many more.
 

Hydrored

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From our side nothing has changed. We know about the manganese concentrations stated above for years and they haven't changed.

We now know for sure that precipitates are mainly manganese and every image I see shows exactly the same blackish-brown color typical for manganese oxides.

I don't know what has changed on your side. From our side neither the suppliers nor the quality we buy has changed, and also the mixing procedure remains the same.

The quality control has even improved, we now have ICP-OES, and otherwise it stayed the same for years, six samples each batch tested for the main parameters in our laboratory before the salt leaves our house.

Regarding the precipitates, I guess, if you don't look you won't see. For me there is no other explanation.

I make this for more than twenty years now and I know that the first thing problems are blamed to is the salt.

If you cooperate we can seriously look for the root causes of the problems open to all directions or we can continue this blame game.

All this answer tells me is to go find a new salt company. Sounds to me Tropic Marin got complacent over the years. Something changed rather you guys want to admit it or not.
 

Brian’sBrain

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From our side nothing has changed. We know about the manganese concentrations stated above for years and they haven't changed.

We now know for sure that precipitates are mainly manganese and every image I see shows exactly the same blackish-brown color typical for manganese oxides.

I don't know what has changed on your side. From our side neither the suppliers nor the quality we buy has changed, and also the mixing procedure remains the same.

The quality control has even improved, we now have ICP-OES, and otherwise it stayed the same for years, six samples each batch tested for the main parameters in our laboratory before the salt leaves our house.

Regarding the precipitates, I guess, if you don't look you won't see. For me there is no other explanation.

I make this for more than twenty years now and I know that the first thing problems are blamed to is the salt.

If you cooperate we can seriously look for the root causes of the problems open to all directions or we can continue this blame game.
Hans idk your affiliation with tropic marin, but you seem to work there. Many people as of recently, including myself, have been having issues with this product and posting; looking for answers or confirmation. This is one of, if not the most most expensive salt mix on the market that has built a reputation on clean salt that doesn’t leave your mixing bins nasty while being a stable salt. Right now that is not the case.
Pro Reef salt has an issue right now that needs addressed. Now it seems, according to you, it seems like the end users fault/problem playing the “blame game”. I’ve been using this salt for years, clean and scrub my bin out regularly never have I once seen these types of deposits.

That kind of response is a total turn off of Tropic Marin for me.
 

Cell

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I just can't believe no chemist at Tropic Maric has a chemistry answer for this. If it's truly just a user thing fine. But regardless of where the fault lies, it is going to hurt sales if we can't figure out why or how to prevent it. The most likely entity to have these answers is TM. I'm guessing the resident R2R chemist has been hesitant to jump in on this conversation for obvious reasons, but perhaps Randy Holmes Farley has some insight into why manganese precipitation is suddenly appearing when it hadn't previously.
 

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