Pro Reef salt from Turkey

[poidog]

I just received a box of Pro Reef salt from the plant in Turkey and am weary to use it. I understand that @Lou Ekus has stated that the Turkey salt should be exactly the same as the German, however I've noticed some differences and wanting to see if anyone else has noticed or have encountered issues using the Turkish salt.

First, the salt and final mixed water has a sweet acidic citrus smell to it, where the German made salt has no smell at all. What is causing this, a different binder or chemical? When adding the salt to water it produces a milky solution before dissolving rather than a normal cloudy appearance from the German batches. These changes may just be superficial and the salt is fine, but there is definitely a difference between the Turkish and German made batches.

 

[wolfen281]

I'll have to check if my Tropic Marin salt was made in Turkey as I just made the switch over from IO. But the smell you're trying to name is cat p!ss. I asked my brother to confirm it's similarity to feline urine and he concurred.

That being said, this salt is wayyyyy better than IO...so far.

 

[afrokobe]

I'll have to check if my Tropic Marin salt was made in Turkey as I just made the switch over from IO. But the smell you're trying to name is cat p!ss. I asked my brother to confirm it's similarity to feline urine and he concurred.

That being said, this salt is wayyyyy better than IO...so far.

Cat pee is pretty distinct... It just reeks of ammonia... unless you are smelling that

 

[wolfen281]

Cat pee is pretty distinct... It just reeks of ammonia... unless you are smelling that

Let me re-phrase that "hint of cat pee"
And only when it has sat in a container for a couple days. Not when I first make it.

 

[DWill]

Yeah, I’m half way through my first tub of the new salt. The parameters in my tank have changed significantly. Everything is lower, especially Mg. There is also a difference in the pH of a freshly mixed batch of the new salt over the old formula. The first two water changes I did with this new salt I got a pH spike.
My Apex alarm is set at 8.4. My pH normally runs 8.28 - 8.3. This new mix set the alarm off. I “fixed” by letting the water mix for two days before I use it. It’s weird to me the pH would be high but the Alk, Ca and Mg lower than normal. I’ve had to significantly increase dosing Alk and Ca and if I keep using this salt I’ll have dosing Mg.

I’m thinking of switching to Brightwell salt mix. What’s the opinion on Brightwell salt mix?

 

[ShakerBreaker]

Have you done an ICP test on your RODI water? I only ask because I recently found silicate and manganese in my RO water, I'm thinking supply chain issues might be affecting some brands of RODI filters. I'm changing all mine next week then running a new ICP test the week after. I also have the Tropic Marin pro reef salt and I have noticed no issues and I have had 50 gallons of water in my mixing tank for 2 weeks.

 

[poidog]

Have you done an ICP test on your RODI water? I only ask because I recently found silicate and manganese in my RO water, I'm thinking supply chain issues might be affecting some brands of RODI filters. I'm changing all mine next week then running a new ICP test the week after. I also have the Tropic Marin pro reef salt and I have noticed no issues and I have had 50 gallons of water in my mixing tank for 2 weeks.

This has nothing to do with the RO/DI water. I have both batches Germany and Turkey, mixed at the same time, side by side. Look at your labels and see if it's "Made in Germany" or "Made in Turkey under supervision of Tropic Marin."

I'm very surprised @Lou Ekus has not chimed in yet on this. If customers have used your product for years and trusted what has come out of the German plant and then it changes location and there are physical differences in the product, transparency is key to retain those customers. Right now, I do not trust this Turkish made salt as it is clearly not the same as the German sourced ingredients.

 

[ShakerBreaker]

This has nothing to do with the RO/DI water. I have both batches Germany and Turkey, mixed at the same time, side by side. Look at your labels and see if it's "Made in Germany" or "Made in Turkey under supervision of Tropic Marin."

I'm very surprised @Lou Ekus has not chimed in yet on this. If customers have used your product for years and trusted what has come out of the German plant and then it changes location and there are physical differences in the product, transparency is key to retain those customers. Right now, I do not trust this Turkish made salt as it is clearly not the same as the German sourced ingredients.

Don't see why checking your RO water could be a bad choice before pointing fingers, but I'll take your word for it. Still think it's a good idea to double-check your RO, but as I once was a raisin farmer I can tell you turkey is super shady.... I mean super super shady, like Epsteins "suicide" shady.

 

[REEFTIDE]

Don't see why checking your RO water could be a bad choice before pointing fingers, but I'll take your word for it. Still think it's a good idea to double-check your RO, but as I once was a raisin farmer I can tell you turkey is super shady.... I mean super super shady, like Epsteins "suicide" shady.

I think what they mean is that RO would not sku parameters. Generally what you have in you RO would be silicates unless your TDS is super high(which most reefers dont allow to happen)

 

[ShakerBreaker]

I think what they mean is that RO would not sku parameters. Generally what you have in you RO would be silicates unless your TDS is super high(which most reefers dont allow to happen)

Yeah, I get it, just saying RO unit could fail, just like anything else.

 

[rtparty]

Lou put together a very long post about this very thing the other day. Highly doubt he is going to respond to every post made about this

 

[poidog]

Lou put together a very long post about this very thing the other day. Highly doubt he is going to respond to every post made about this

Link?

 

[rtparty]

Link?

Calling On Tropic Marine For Help!!!

I can't believe Lou stopped in but didn't address the actual question at hand... Right? Horrible deflection. I don't even use TM and I was upset with the response.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[poidog]

Calling On Tropic Marine For Help!!!

I can't believe Lou stopped in but didn't address the actual question at hand... Right? Horrible deflection. I don't even use TM and I was upset with the response.

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks. Lou’s responses however do not explain why batches of German and Turkish salts, mixed side by side, are different. They may mix to the exact same ICP but ingredients are 100% not the same between the two facilities.

 

[IKD]

Thanks. Lou’s responses however do not explain why batches of German and Turkish salts, mixed side by side, are different. They may mix to the exact same ICP but ingredients are 100% not the same between the two facilities.

@PeterC99
At first I thought it was the same OP for both threads when I saw this post, but sounds like it’s two independent observations in differences with the salt origins. I think I’m going to verify my TM salt is manufactured in Germany going forward. I hope TM is doing some internal investigations…

 

[mfollen]

From what I have heard there are TM internal investigations

 

[rtparty]

@PeterC99
At first I thought it was the same OP for both threads when I saw this post, but sounds like it’s two independent observations in differences with the salt origins. I think I’m going to verify my TM salt is manufactured in Germany going forward. I hope TM is doing some internal investigations…

I'm sure you read all of Peter's thread? Sounds like TM has been investigating these claims for quite some time and even received salt from the users themselves and can not replicate the issues.

 

[IKD]

I'm sure you read all of Peter's thread? Sounds like TM has been investigating these claims for quite some time and even received salt from the users themselves and can not replicate the issues.

I read the rest of the thread just today after my last reply. Good to see they are investigating

 

[rcunning8]

Turkish made salt cost me nearly my entire sps collection. Close to if not exceeding 60k in rare sps. I am a medical doctor with an additional degree in biomedical sciences from Loyola University Chicago and Rutgers Medical school respectively. I have extensive experience in both biology and chemistry. I have extensive experience in narrowing down differential diagnosis to root cause of underlying disease and issues. I am 100 percent certain this salt caused my issue. I blamed it last when I discovered unbenounced to me I had been using salt made in a different facility than the original German production line. The Turkish bucket has an all plastic handle and the German one has a metal handle. It took me six weeks to determine it was the salt. I sent in three Icp analysis to triton. One of my tank water, one of a freshly mixed batch of Turkish salt and one of my RODI. The Turkish salt fresh batch had severely elevated iron and manganese which I was told was normal by TM.

Following my determination I switched salt brands and the first water change I saw an immediate improvement. Sps Which had zero polyp extension for six weeks IMMEDIATELY shot polyps out on a tiny water change. Prior to switching salts everytime I did a waterchange things would deteriorate more rapidly and often tip sps corals from STN into RTN and the following day I would pull out 2-3 colonies which had taken me 5 plus years of blood sweat and tears to grow. The following week I did a ten percent water change with my new salt brand on the daily. After every single water change the corals started looking better and better. After two weeks of doing this, the corals that were left were colored back up and on their way back to 100 percent health and coloration. I CHANGED NOTHING ELSE FOR THIS RESULT.

I posted about this issue back in September and was half ridiculed and half supported. I have had around 15 people contact my reefing business page with the exact same complaints and everytime the moment they switch off the salt to my recommendation of a new brand they see reversal of the issue. TM is still denying responsibility and I have remained cordial through the entire process. They have refunded me my money for the four buckets which cost me half of my collection but offered to pay nothing for my losses as they don’t believe their salt is the culprit. My intention is not to destroy or harm TM in anyway. I used their salt for 6 years and was integral in switching almost the entire high end Midwest market to their company. I was the biggest TM cheerleader of anyone. If people wanted me to do service on their tanks I would not agree until they threw out their salt and switched to my TM pro brand.

This is just my two cents and my experience with this specific issue. To say I’m dismayed and upset with what happened is an understatement. During that period of time I was staffing the ICU at my hospital and I spoke every waking moment of my free time at home pulling my hair out and working up this issue. It was the most exhausting and stressful time of my entire life. I have never experienced a crash in the 11 years of my hobby experience. I expanded my differential diagnosis for the etiology of the problem so wide I started blaming hair products and even thought maybe a client maliciously poured somthing into my tank because the paranoia had gotten so big. It was none of those things, it was the salt. End of story.

below please find before and after pics of colonies side by side. The pics on the left show my sps at the peak of the issue. The pics on the right show the same exact corals that made it through that issue on the other side alive and six weeks after switching salts and a 100 percent turnover of water change with the new brand.

-Ryan Cunningham MD MBS
Owner and operator of Chumminghamsreef

 

[IKD]

Turkish made salt cost me nearly my entire sps collection. Close to if not exceeding 60k in rare sps. I am a medical doctor with an additional degree in biomedical sciences from Loyola University Chicago and Rutgers Medical school respectively. I have extensive experience in both biology and chemistry. I have extensive experience in narrowing down differential diagnosis to root cause of underlying disease and issues. I am 100 percent certain this salt caused my issue. I blamed it last when I discovered unbenounced to me I had been using salt made in a different facility than the original German production line. The Turkish bucket has an all plastic handle and the German one has a metal handle. It took me six weeks to determine it was the salt. I sent in three Icp analysis to triton. One of my tank water, one of a freshly mixed batch of Turkish salt and one of my RODI. The Turkish salt fresh batch had severely elevated iron and manganese which I was told was normal by TM.

Following my determination I switched salt brands and the first water change I saw an immediate improvement. Sps Which had zero polyp extension for six weeks IMMEDIATELY shot polyps out on a tiny water change. Prior to switching salts everytime I did a waterchange things would deteriorate more rapidly and often tip sps corals from STN into RTN and the following day I would pull out 2-3 colonies which had taken me 5 plus years of blood sweat and tears to grow. The following week I did a ten percent water change with my new salt brand on the daily. After every single water change the corals started looking better and better. After two weeks of doing this, the corals that were left were colored back up and on their way back to 100 percent health and coloration. I CHANGED NOTHING ELSE FOR THIS RESULT.

I posted about this issue back in September and was half ridiculed and half supported. I have had around 15 people contact my reefing business page with the exact same complaints and everytime the moment they switch off the salt to my recommendation of a new brand they see reversal of the issue. TM is still denying responsibility and I have remained cordial through the entire process. They have refunded me my money for the four buckets which cost me half of my collection but offered to pay nothing for my losses as they don’t believe their salt is the culprit. My intention is not to destroy or harm TM in anyway. I used their salt for 6 years and was integral in switching almost the entire high end Midwest market to their company. I was the biggest TM cheerleader of anyone. If people wanted me to do service on their tanks I would not agree until they threw out their salt and switched to my TM pro brand.

This is just my two cents and my experience with this specific issue. To say I’m dismayed and upset with what happened is an understatement. During that period of time I was staffing the ICU at my hospital and I spoke every waking moment of my free time at home pulling my hair out and working up this issue. It was the most exhausting and stressful time of my entire life. I have never experienced a crash in the 11 years of my hobby experience. I expanded my differential diagnosis for the etiology of the problem so wide I started blaming hair products and even thought maybe a client maliciously poured somthing into my tank because the paranoia had gotten so big. It was none of those things, it was the salt. End of story.

below please find before and after pics of colonies side by side. The pics on the left show my sps at the peak of the issue. The pics on the right show the same exact corals that made it through that issue on the other side alive and six weeks after switching salts and a 100 percent turnover of water change with the new brand.

-Ryan Cunningham MD MBS
Owner and operator of Chumminghamsreef

Thank you for sharing and sorry to hear of your struggles. My father (now retired) was a doctor that worked ICU also and it certainly is enough stress in itself. Would you be willing to share what brand of salt you switched to?