Problem: I just came from the lumber yard...

[miyags]

2x4 will work just fine.just don't lay the top 2x4s flat,they need to be upright with crown up.
..If your worried about the open span bowing you can just use 2-2x4s across the top header.The ridged glass will take the weight to the corners

 

[Pntbll687]

Difficult to describe and no skills/software to create an image.

Basically, I want to create and upper and lower rail equal to the tank footprint (72" x 18"). Then 4 vertical supports along the back.

In the front, I also want 4 vertical supports, however these will not be equidistant. My sump is 48" so I would need to have a 49" opening in the front with the remaining space on each side having 2 vertical supports.

It is because of this opening that I wanted to use 1x6s. The front of the tank will have a span of 49 inches that is unsupported.

Just make a side panel removeable so you can slide the sump in from the end if possible.

 

[Sthomp01]

Personally, I wouldn't worry about using 1x6"s seeing how we totally overkill these diy stand builds with 2x4's. I built my old 100g stand with 4x4"s. I could probably rest a ford f-650 on it (eight 4x4's @ 4,300lbs capacity each).

I built a stand for a 50gal tank using 4X4. it was so overkill.

 

[Dom]

Just make a side panel removeable so you can slide the sump in from the end if possible.

I considered doing that. But here is the problem:

The sump has a width of 12". Using 2x4s, the total width at the corners will be 7.5".

So...

Sump width = 12.0"
Space to maneuver = 1.0"
Total width of 2x4s = 7.5"
Total stand width = 20.5"
(Front to Back)

But the tank is only 18.5" front to back. This means that there would be a 2" space; 1" in front and 1" in back. I'm not to keen on the look.

 

[Dom]

I'm thinking I may have a local ironwork company build and powder coat a stand. It may be worth it when I consider the logistics of getting the material to my home, the time and labor to put it together.

 

[Kodski]

If you can, I'd just use plywood. Plywood is stronger than dimensional lumber. Double it up, and you're good to go. One 4x8 sheet can easily make a frame for a stand. Check my build thread for pictures of mine. I ripped my plywood down to 3" strips, doubled it up and for a 48"x24" foot print I have zero center supports. If you're worried about that span with a 125 then just rip the top strips a little thicker, like 5" wide. Simple, mega strong, and easy to customize to what you need. It also looks a lot nicer than a 2x4. I didn't even skin mine, but my sump is in the basement.

Edit: I even run through my design and how I built the stand in my build thread.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I'm thinking I may have a local ironwork company build and powder coat a stand. It may be worth it when I consider the logistics of getting the material to my home, the time and labor to put it together.

If you only need the large opening to get the sump in and out (when the tank is empty), then put a removable brace in the front. Once you have the sump inside the stand, screw the brace back in place.

 

[Gatorpa]

If you can, I'd just use plywood. Plywood is stronger than dimensional lumber. Double it up, and you're good to go. One 4x8 sheet can easily make a frame for a stand. Check my build thread for pictures of mine. I ripped my plywood down to 3" strips, doubled it up and for a 48"x24" foot print I have zero center supports. If you're worried about that span with a 125 then just rip the top strips a little thicker, like 5" wide. Simple, mega strong, and easy to customize to what you need. It also looks a lot nicer than a 2x4. I didn't even skin mine, but my sump is in the basement.

Edit: I even run through my design and how I built the stand in my build thread.

I always used plywood for the stand I built up to 180 gallons. never had an issue some are 20 years old now

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I always used plywood for the stand I built up to 180 gallons. never had an issue some are 20 years old now

Can you please come to Houston and build me a stand? Lol!

 

[Dom]

If you can, I'd just use plywood. Plywood is stronger than dimensional lumber. Double it up, and you're good to go. One 4x8 sheet can easily make a frame for a stand. Check my build thread for pictures of mine. I ripped my plywood down to 3" strips, doubled it up and for a 48"x24" foot print I have zero center supports. If you're worried about that span with a 125 then just rip the top strips a little thicker, like 5" wide. Simple, mega strong, and easy to customize to what you need. It also looks a lot nicer than a 2x4. I didn't even skin mine, but my sump is in the basement.

Edit: I even run through my design and how I built the stand in my build thread.

Sounds labor intensive. But it also sounds effective.

It seems like that approach requires a table saw. I'll check out your build thread and get back with questions.

 

[Dom]

If you can, I'd just use plywood. Plywood is stronger than dimensional lumber. Double it up, and you're good to go. One 4x8 sheet can easily make a frame for a stand. Check my build thread for pictures of mine. I ripped my plywood down to 3" strips, doubled it up and for a 48"x24" foot print I have zero center supports. If you're worried about that span with a 125 then just rip the top strips a little thicker, like 5" wide. Simple, mega strong, and easy to customize to what you need. It also looks a lot nicer than a 2x4. I didn't even skin mine, but my sump is in the basement.

Edit: I even run through my design and how I built the stand in my build thread.

@Kodski - Wow; that is some build! I hate to digress, but what return pump are you using for that amount of head height?

I see what you did with the plywood. Basically, you created your own dimensional lumber by ripping the board down into pieces you need, and then assembled.

To be clear; the 125 I'm building for will require an 49" open span to accommodate a 48" sump. Honestly, having such a broad span without vertical support is intimidating.

But if I understand your approach, I can construct the horizontal support using as many pieces of plywood as I see fit, glued and clamped together. Do you screw these pieces together or are gluing and clamping enough?

 

[wil-yuhm]

A drawback of using 1x6" lumber based on past personal experience was the wood bowed in the middle. The boards began to "smile" after subject to moisture. Are 2x4s cheaper than 1x6"? If so, I'd use 2x4s and at least polyurethane before "skinning" the framework.

 

[Dom]

A drawback of using 1x6" lumber based on past personal experience was the wood bowed in the middle. The boards began to "smile" after subject to moisture. Are 2x4s cheaper than 1x6"? If so, I'd use 2x4s and at least polyurethane before "skinning" the framework.

Yes, I polyurethane all my stands.

I feel 2x4s are easiest to work with. And while I very much like Kodski's build, it is labor intensive. The proper tools for precise, consistent repetitive cuts are required.

 

[Gatorpa]

Can you please come to Houston and build me a stand? Lol!

With air fair being what it is,it would be cheaper to ship it..

 

[Dom]

If you only need the large opening to get the sump in and out (when the tank is empty), then put a removable brace in the front. Once you have the sump inside the stand, screw the brace back in place.

Yes, a removable brace is an option. But don't you think it looks nicer as a completely open front? My refugium is as much of a show piece as my tank. I think it's nice to look at all the critters at work from time to time.

 

[Kodski]

@Kodski - Wow; that is some build! I hate to digress, but what return pump are you using for that amount of head height?

I see what you did with the plywood. Basically, you created your own dimensional lumber by ripping the board down into pieces you need, and then assembled.

To be clear; the 125 I'm building for will require an 49" open span to accommodate a 48" sump. Honestly, having such a broad span without vertical support is intimidating.

But if I understand your approach, I can construct the horizontal support using as many pieces of plywood as I see fit, glued and clamped together. Do you screw these pieces together or are gluing and clamping enough?

I'm using a Sicce SDC 9.0 pump. Its a POWERHOUSE of a pump. I only run it on 38% power and it moves some serious water.

I personally just glued the plywood together to laminate it, the wood itself will fail before the bond between the glue and wood is actually broken. One reason why plywood is so strong. If you don't have enough clamps or any, screws will work just fine though. Just make sure you can either hide the screws.

Excuse the chapter book, but I'd like to explain why going the plywood route is worth every ounce of extra labor it takes over dimensional lumber.


You understand my building theory correctly and yes, unfortunately, it would require a table saw to cut everything consistently. I understand the concerns of spanning a 49" opening, however, I would NEVER risk that span with dimensional lumber. Especially with today's quality of wood. As a bit of background, I've been involved in the construction world for almost my entire life, including running my own remodeling company. My reasons for not trusting dimensional lumber is the following reasons. Due to the massive lumber shortage during Covid, saw mills have lowered their quality standards overall, allowing more knots, voids, and rotten wood into the mix. Along with the shortage, it meant that the time line from when the tree was cut, to when the boards where put on the shelf has decreased SIGNIFICANTLY. This means that there is a lot more moisture in the wood and that as it sits in your home, it will dry out and change shape. I've been seeing this ALOT lately in new housing builds with bowed walls, cracked drywall, and other issues to boot. I 100% would never put a glass tank with hundreds of pounds of water on top of a stand that is going to change shape after a few months in my house. These reasons are why at this time, I recommend people to stay away from dimensional lumber for stand builds for the time being. Now if you were to purchase the lumber and let it sit for a few months to dry out, then it would be ok. But you'd need to take care to make sure the boards stay straight and don't warp or twist. Another major issue with dimensional lumber is the growth of the trees. New lumber VS old lumber has a major difference, the growth rings are spaced out much further apart. The wood between the growth rings is made of softer wood than the rings themselves, and due to the curvature of the rings, can greatly affect the strength of the boards. For instance, a 2x4 can carry more load with the thicker edge, but that's only partly due to the thickness of the board. It's also attributed to the direction of the growth rings in the board itself due to "grain direction" of the wood. Grain direction is something I'll touch on a bit later as well. A good comparison, a 1x1 or 2x2, will always break a lot easier if you bend it in one direction vs the other. This is due to the growth ring direction. Give it a try sometime.

Aside from the quality issues with todays dimensional lumber, lets discuss the strength properties of dimensional lumber versus plywood. As previously mentioned, growth rings can attribute a lot to the strength of a board, but due to the nature of.. nature. Not all boards are equally as strong as the next. Grain direction of wood also affects in which direction the wood will be stronger. Boards will break easiest with the grain, which is why 2x4's originally were designed to stand on end as studs in the walls and why in standard building code headers need to be 2x6" minimum. The wood is still strong due to the overall dimensions, but overall weaker as opposed to being stood on end. This is also why plywood was made. Its a lot easier to put a foot through an old subfloor board that's a 2x6" as opposed to even the oldest plywood subfloors. This is because plywood was designed to take advantage of the strength of the wood grain, OSB or orientated strand board, is a literal abbreviation for this. Plywood is stronger, because it it comprised of more hardwoods as well as more layers. The more layers, the more the grain direction varies and the more difficult it is to break. This reason is why you see OSB I beams for flooring joists in new construction, or even LSL (laminated strand lumber) when available. It's because its not just fractionally stronger, its a great deal stronger.

All of this culminates to the fact that when you're talking about putting a glass box full of water, which cannot flex or it will break, on top of something that will inherently flex, you need to be as cautious as possible. I'm sure you could build a stand out of 1x1's and make it hold a 200 gallon aquarium. Its not the ability to hold the weight that we are worried about when building an aquarium stand, its the amount of deflection that will be present with that weight on top of the stand. Deflection causes tanks to burst seams and to fail, I've never once heard of an aquarium just falling to the floor because the stand itself failed. Plywood will have the least amount of deflection and allow you to greatly reduce overall width of wood needed. Is it extra work, yeah a bit. Is it going to be stronger and last longer, 100% no questions asked. In fact, I'd argue that a plywood stand is stronger than a steel stand. Of course this depends on the steel used, but at the end of the day, due to cost, square steel tubing is usually pretty thin walled and I'd be willing to be plywood cut and laminated to a similar overall size would hold its own against the steel in a strength and deflection test.

 

[Dom]

I'm using a Sicce SDC 9.0 pump. Its a POWERHOUSE of a pump. I only run it on 38% power and it moves some serious water.

I personally just glued the plywood together to laminate it, the wood itself will fail before the bond between the glue and wood is actually broken. One reason why plywood is so strong. If you don't have enough clamps or any, screws will work just fine though. Just make sure you can either hide the screws.

Excuse the chapter book, but I'd like to explain why going the plywood route is worth every ounce of extra labor it takes over dimensional lumber.


You understand my building theory correctly and yes, unfortunately, it would require a table saw to cut everything consistently. I understand the concerns of spanning a 49" opening, however, I would NEVER risk that span with dimensional lumber. Especially with today's quality of wood. As a bit of background, I've been involved in the construction world for almost my entire life, including running my own remodeling company. My reasons for not trusting dimensional lumber is the following reasons. Due to the massive lumber shortage during Covid, saw mills have lowered their quality standards overall, allowing more knots, voids, and rotten wood into the mix. Along with the shortage, it meant that the time line from when the tree was cut, to when the boards where put on the shelf has decreased SIGNIFICANTLY. This means that there is a lot more moisture in the wood and that as it sits in your home, it will dry out and change shape. I've been seeing this ALOT lately in new housing builds with bowed walls, cracked drywall, and other issues to boot. I 100% would never put a glass tank with hundreds of pounds of water on top of a stand that is going to change shape after a few months in my house. These reasons are why at this time, I recommend people to stay away from dimensional lumber for stand builds for the time being. Now if you were to purchase the lumber and let it sit for a few months to dry out, then it would be ok. But you'd need to take care to make sure the boards stay straight and don't warp or twist. Another major issue with dimensional lumber is the growth of the trees. New lumber VS old lumber has a major difference, the growth rings are spaced out much further apart. The wood between the growth rings is made of softer wood than the rings themselves, and due to the curvature of the rings, can greatly affect the strength of the boards. For instance, a 2x4 can carry more load with the thicker edge, but that's only partly due to the thickness of the board. It's also attributed to the direction of the growth rings in the board itself due to "grain direction" of the wood. Grain direction is something I'll touch on a bit later as well. A good comparison, a 1x1 or 2x2, will always break a lot easier if you bend it in one direction vs the other. This is due to the growth ring direction. Give it a try sometime.

Aside from the quality issues with todays dimensional lumber, lets discuss the strength properties of dimensional lumber versus plywood. As previously mentioned, growth rings can attribute a lot to the strength of a board, but due to the nature of.. nature. Not all boards are equally as strong as the next. Grain direction of wood also affects in which direction the wood will be stronger. Boards will break easiest with the grain, which is why 2x4's originally were designed to stand on end as studs in the walls and why in standard building code headers need to be 2x6" minimum. The wood is still strong due to the overall dimensions, but overall weaker as opposed to being stood on end. This is also why plywood was made. Its a lot easier to put a foot through an old subfloor board that's a 2x6" as opposed to even the oldest plywood subfloors. This is because plywood was designed to take advantage of the strength of the wood grain, OSB or orientated strand board, is a literal abbreviation for this. Plywood is stronger, because it it comprised of more hardwoods as well as more layers. The more layers, the more the grain direction varies and the more difficult it is to break. This reason is why you see OSB I beams for flooring joists in new construction, or even LSL (laminated strand lumber) when available. It's because its not just fractionally stronger, its a great deal stronger.

All of this culminates to the fact that when you're talking about putting a glass box full of water, which cannot flex or it will break, on top of something that will inherently flex, you need to be as cautious as possible. I'm sure you could build a stand out of 1x1's and make it hold a 200 gallon aquarium. Its not the ability to hold the weight that we are worried about when building an aquarium stand, its the amount of deflection that will be present with that weight on top of the stand. Deflection causes tanks to burst seams and to fail, I've never once heard of an aquarium just falling to the floor because the stand itself failed. Plywood will have the least amount of deflection and allow you to greatly reduce overall width of wood needed. Is it extra work, yeah a bit. Is it going to be stronger and last longer, 100% no questions asked. In fact, I'd argue that a plywood stand is stronger than a steel stand. Of course this depends on the steel used, but at the end of the day, due to cost, square steel tubing is usually pretty thin walled and I'd be willing to be plywood cut and laminated to a similar overall size would hold its own against the steel in a strength and deflection test.

It's clear that you know you stuff. And based on your explanation, I am satisfied that your approach will be more than adequate to support the weight in question.

Now, how to get this done...

I'm thinking I can purchase 2 sheets of furniture-grade 3/4 ply, and have the lumber mill rip each piece down into 4" x 96" for a total of (24) 8 foot pieces. Plus a 3rd sheet for the top and bottom.

Then I can use my chop saw to cut the pieces to length, glue and assemble.

Do you think I can make this stand with 3 sheets of plywood?

 

[malacoda]

If you can, I'd just use plywood. Plywood is stronger than dimensional lumber. Double it up, and you're good to go. One 4x8 sheet can easily make a frame for a stand. Check my build thread for pictures of mine. I ripped my plywood down to 3" strips, doubled it up and for a 48"x24" foot print I have zero center supports. If you're worried about that span with a 125 then just rip the top strips a little thicker, like 5" wide. Simple, mega strong, and easy to customize to what you need. It also looks a lot nicer than a 2x4. I didn't even skin mine, but my sump is in the basement.

Edit: I even run through my design and how I built the stand in my build thread.

+1 on this.

No need for dimensional lumber. Plywood is plenty strong enough.

The stand in my old build 65g thread was made with 3/4" plywood. (And then just some 1/4" thick dimensional pieces on the outside for the shaker cabinet look.)

Build Thread - Malacoda's 65g Long from Crystal Reef Aquatics

Tank goal: Java Sea biotope (or as close to one as I can get given the current rock/livestock bans). 27 June 2021: Equipment: 65G Crystal Reef Aquatics tank: 48" x 18" x 18" with BA overflow Octo Aquatics cover Crystal Reef Aquatics Triton 30 sump along with a CRA tall dosing container set...

www.reef2reef.com

I did use some 1"x2" pieces inside in a manner that looks like framing, it was really just to give me more surface to work with when lining up and attaching the plywood panels.

And, in planning for the future, I made the stand large enough to hold a tank with 48" x 24" footprint ... and just recently replaced the 65g that was on it with a 120g.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/malacodas-twice-the-size-mixed-reef.867248/


Also, you don't need a table saw to cut the plywood, just a cheap circular saw with a good blade (along with painters tape) to help prevent chipping of the surface veneer on the cut edges. Just lay the plywood on the ground on top of some 2x4s or other old plywood sheets to act as your 'table top' to cut on. You'll see this in the first few pics of that 65g build thread.

SOOO glad I don't have 2x4 framing taking up that extra space in the stand. If I did, I would not have had enough space to fit in a CaRX system now that my SPS have begun to take off.

 

[jsker]

Just looking at this thread. Sounds like you are getting some good advise.

The metal powder coated stand would be more cost effective. Now if you have a saw, drill, a straight edge, and have experience with building with wood. You should have no problem building a stand.

This most important part of build a stand is to have solid corners, were most of the weight of the system rests, the support for the center of the tank. If you are going to place a large sump under the stand this is were it get tricky with support and having the right design makes all the difference.

The plywood I am seeing of late is not the best, even cabinet grade.

 

[Kodski]

It's clear that you know you stuff. And based on your explanation, I am satisfied that your approach will be more than adequate to support the weight in question.

Now, how to get this done...

I'm thinking I can purchase 2 sheets of furniture-grade 3/4 ply, and have the lumber mill rip each piece down into 4" x 96" for a total of (24) 8 foot pieces. Plus a 3rd sheet for the top and bottom.

Then I can use my chop saw to cut the pieces to length, glue and assemble.

Do you think I can make this stand with 3 sheets of plywood?

Your best best is to create a cut list. Make a sketch, I think google sketchup is a great free tool, but I prefer the good old fashioned pencil and ruler approach. From there, figure out each different length of boards and how many you need. IE: your main beam is lets say 72"x4" and you want to double that up. You'll need four for a front and rear beam. Then on the bottom, you just want a single 72"x4" beam. So you'll need a total of 6 - 72"x4" pieces. Once you have your cut list, figure out how many 96"x4" boards you'll need and divide 48" by that number. Lets say you'll need 12. Technically that is one sheet of plywood, but you need to account for kerf of the blade. Basically how thick the blade of the saw is. Each cut you'll lose the kerf thickness. Most cases this is 1/8" so technically one 96"x48" sheet will yield 11 boards that are 96"x4". So if you need 12 of those boards, you'll need two sheets of plywood.

Hope this helps, I'm happy to lend a hand if need be.