QT process question

[kloweeeeee]

Hey all, I'm not sure how to(or if I can) start my own forum, or topic or whatever, so I'm just going to post my question here. Please let me know if I should be doing this somewhere else but...

I have a 55g that I've had for a little over a year now. First ich outbreak after about 5 months and learned the hard way that we rushed into everything. So we went fallow and are now QTing all fish. Our first to go back in were a pair of clowns, they made it through QT no problem and are doing great. Now were struggling with an extremely stressed fox face...

Here's our QT process....
Day 1: acclimate and let rest
Day 2 (we did this on Day 3 for FF bc of how stressed they get): treat with prazipro per pkg instructions
Day 9: 60-80% WC and retreat with prazipro
Day 10: begin cupramine (treat at 0.5 for 4 weeks)
Remove all copper and observe for 4 weeks
then release....

We are currently at the end of week 2 Cu treatment with the FF and he's been very weak the past 2 days... When I went to feed this evening, I couldn't find him anywhere... then realized he was sucked up against the bottom of this tiny little powerhead (if you can even call it a powerhead... it's tiny and barely blows) I thought he was dead, so I shook the powerhead a little and he fluttered to the bottom of the tank. Very stress colored, quick paced breathing, teetering but still up and down, not on side.

10 g QT with plenty of PVC for him to hide
all params are 0
spg 1.024
temp. (varies btwn 75-79 throughout the day)

Any ideas? Until today, he's been eating fine.


Also... how often does Cupramine throw off Ammonia readings?

 

[cromag27]

I wouldn't qt with copper because it causes a lot of stress on fish. and unless you know the fish is sick and needs to be treated with copper, then I personally wouldn't use it as a prophylactic.

Do you currently have detectable ammonia? if so, that could be the problem as well. aside from the effects of the cupramine, that is. as long as there's detectable copper in your water, you could register ammonia.

 

[cmcoker]

Hey all, I'm not sure how to(or if I can) start my own forum, or topic or whatever, so I'm just going to post my question here. Please let me know if I should be doing this somewhere else but...

I have a 55g that I've had for a little over a year now. First ich outbreak after about 5 months and learned the hard way that we rushed into everything. So we went fallow and are now QTing all fish. Our first to go back in were a pair of clowns, they made it through QT no problem and are doing great. Now were struggling with an extremely stressed fox face...

Here's our QT process....
Day 1: acclimate and let rest
Day 2 (we did this on Day 3 for FF bc of how stressed they get): treat with prazipro per pkg instructions
Day 9: 60-80% WC and retreat with prazipro
Day 10: begin cupramine (treat at 0.5 for 4 weeks)
Remove all copper and observe for 4 weeks
then release....

We are currently at the end of week 2 Cu treatment with the FF and he's been very weak the past 2 days... When I went to feed this evening, I couldn't find him anywhere... then realized he was sucked up against the bottom of this tiny little powerhead (if you can even call it a powerhead... it's tiny and barely blows) I thought he was dead, so I shook the powerhead a little and he fluttered to the bottom of the tank. Very stress colored, quick paced breathing, teetering but still up and down, not on side.

10 g QT with plenty of PVC for him to hide
all params are 0
spg 1.024
temp. (varies btwn 75-79 throughout the day)

Any ideas? Until today, he's been eating fine.


Also... how often does Cupramine throw off Ammonia readings?

Use seachem ammonia alert badge in qt, it will read without interference from Cupramine according to seachem.

They also make an ammonia test kit.

I assume you are testing the copper level at 0.5 and not going off the drops per gallon?

 

[melypr1985]

Hey all, I'm not sure how to(or if I can) start my own forum, or topic or whatever, so I'm just going to post my question here. Please let me know if I should be doing this somewhere else but...

I have a 55g that I've had for a little over a year now. First ich outbreak after about 5 months and learned the hard way that we rushed into everything. So we went fallow and are now QTing all fish. Our first to go back in were a pair of clowns, they made it through QT no problem and are doing great. Now were struggling with an extremely stressed fox face...

Here's our QT process....
Day 1: acclimate and let rest
Day 2 (we did this on Day 3 for FF bc of how stressed they get): treat with prazipro per pkg instructions
Day 9: 60-80% WC and retreat with prazipro
Day 10: begin cupramine (treat at 0.5 for 4 weeks)
Remove all copper and observe for 4 weeks
then release....

We are currently at the end of week 2 Cu treatment with the FF and he's been very weak the past 2 days... When I went to feed this evening, I couldn't find him anywhere... then realized he was sucked up against the bottom of this tiny little powerhead (if you can even call it a powerhead... it's tiny and barely blows) I thought he was dead, so I shook the powerhead a little and he fluttered to the bottom of the tank. Very stress colored, quick paced breathing, teetering but still up and down, not on side.

10 g QT with plenty of PVC for him to hide
all params are 0
spg 1.024
temp. (varies btwn 75-79 throughout the day)

Any ideas? Until today, he's been eating fine.


Also... how often does Cupramine throw off Ammonia readings?

How quickly did you raise the copper level? You really want to take several days to raise the copper up to therapeutic range so the fish isn't shocked by it. Of course, all fish are different and some fish that aren't normally sensitive to copper can display sensitivities to it. In that case an alternative QT method should be sought. Tank Transfer Method is a good option and doesn't use any medications.... especially since you already treated with prazipro.

Let's see [HASHTAG]#mods[/HASHTAG] Can we move this thread to the disease forum and create her own thread? Thanks yall!

 

[evolved]

^fixed

 

[kloweeeeee]

Now he's laying on his side. Barely alive.... I'm just not sure what went wrong this time.

 

[Humblefish]

The thing with copper is some fish just can't take being exposed to it. And I'm finding it's more of an individual thing than a species thing. Another foxface might do just fine in copper. If I were you (just read your most recent post), I would get him out of copper water and into a 5 gal bucket with no meds ASAP.

 

[melypr1985]

^fixed

Actually mine was supposed to go with @kloweeeeee 's thread.

 

[evolved]

It was there...
See, this is what happens when two mods work on things at once.
I'll fix it.

 

[melypr1985]

It was there...
See, this is what happens when two mods work on things at once.
I'll fix it.

lol Thanks Hunter! Your the best

 

[kloweeeeee]

Thank you everyone.... I've been testing ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite at least once daily. Just picked up the ammonia alert badge today and it reads safe.

I've been testing the Cu level up to 0.5 (I'd say its around 0.4 now) and not using the drop per gal. method... I dosed 1/2 on the first day of treatment, and 1/2 on the 3rd day.

What I didn't mention is I topped off with RODI (1 gal treated with 1 drop of cupramine) 2 days ago. We haven't touched the water since we initially started the Cu 2 weeks ago until I topped off

 

[kloweeeeee]

The thing with copper is some fish just can't take being exposed to it. And I'm finding it's more of an individual thing than a species thing. Another foxface might do just fine in copper. If I were you (just read your most recent post), I would get him out of copper water and into a 5 gal bucket with no meds ASAP.

Don't you think the transfer would finish him off? DT water or new saltwater?.. not new premixed

 

[melypr1985]

What I didn't mention is I topped off with RODI (1 gal treated with 1 drop of cupramine) 2 days ago. We haven't touched the water since we initially started the Cu 2 weeks ago until I topped off

Just for future refference. You dont need to dose the top off water with copper. That will bring your copper levels really really high.

I'm all for taking him out of the copper and trying a different QT method.

 

[Brew12]

Don't you think the transfer would finish him off? DT water or new saltwater?.. not new premixed

I would use DT water since it would be faster

 

[kloweeeeee]

F***.... Pretty sure he's dead. I don't see gills moving. Sucks. I guess it's all a learning experience. He was a pretty small one, so maybe he just couldn't handle the full 0.5. /sigh I appreciate all the responses.

I'm probably the reason he got bad..Poor little guy
@melypr1985 , I think I confused topping off with the WC. Bc WCs are supposed to be predosed with Cu, right?

 

[kloweeeeee]

Another question for future reference... Once a fish has been Cu poisoned is there any recovering from that? Has anyone had success?

 

[Brew12]

Sometimes even the best efforts aren't successful. It would be so much easier if all fish reacted the same to every treatment. Sorry you lost him.

I believe what he was saying is that you don't dose the top off water, you do dose the water change water.

 

[Brew12]

Another question for future reference... Once a fish has been Cu poisoned is there any recovering from that? Has anyone had success?

All fish exposed to copper are copper poisoned. The entire concept of treating with copper is that the fish can live in it longer than the parasites. If you are looking for a more in depth answer than that it is being my knowledge level.

 

[melypr1985]

I think I confused topping off with the WC. Bc WCs are supposed to be predosed with Cu, right?

Correct.

Once a fish has been Cu poisoned is there any recovering from that? Has anyone had success?

Usually if you spot the signs early and remove them from the copper (or remove the copper from the water quickly) then they can recover and be fine. It's all about watching for the signs of copper sensitivity and being ready to respond accordingly. The biggest signs are lack of appetite and lethargy.

 

[kloweeeeee]

Sometimes even the best efforts aren't successful. It would be so much easier if all fish reacted the same to every treatment. Sorry you lost him.

I believe what he was saying is that you don't dose the top off water, you do dose the water change water.

I knew that... I think it was either just a rookie mistake or a glass of wine too many that night. The copper level was never above 0.5 when I tested though. Either way, lesson learned the hard way. I don't think I'll let the level get above maybe 0.4 for the next one? The transfer tank method gives me anxiety because I feel like that creates more stress for the fish than Cu, but maybe I'm wrong. Definitely something I'll look into.

Thank you all again, I appreciate the help. Coral is so much easier