Quarantine already quarantined fish?
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tdileo
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It's never a bad idea. Even if you buy your fish in person from the LFS after closely inspecting it and they QTed it for 3 weeks something can still pop up at home. I've purchased everything except fish from LA's website and I don't have much room for a QT so I put them in a 2.5 gallon tank with a tiny heater and watch for a week. I would be more careful with fish though
DancingShark
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Never bought from them but I would still quarantine ever single thing that goes in my tank. After losing everything in a Ich outbreak by first time after setting up my tank never again. It was the worst experience/ feeling ever.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
I have purchased from Divers Den and I did QT them myself afterwards. Here is their Divers Den QT procedure.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=425
It is much better than most, but far from foolproof and much less than what I do at home. Even they recommend using a QT system for fish you buy from them.
Another great reason to set up a QT system is for acclimation. My fish from Divers Den came at 1.020 where I keep my system at 1.025. To reduce stress on the fish this salinity increase should be done over at least 2 days, not 2 hours during a drip acclimation. I have received fish from other vendors in water as low as 1.016. I believe that improper acclimation is the main reason for fish mortality 2 to 3 days after acclimation.
@Brew12 is absolutely right. Besides the possibility of something slipping through (trust no QT but your own) it's a great way to acclimate them to your schedule, the foods you feed, and aquarium life in general, before they enter an established, competitive community tank.
And the low salinity is an excellent point, and an issue I've been seeing frequently as well as most people don't even think to check the bag water.
And the low salinity is an excellent point, and an issue I've been seeing frequently as well as most people don't even think to check the bag water.
DancingShark
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Brew12 is spot on. I know the wait in QT sucks but it's well worth it.
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Tmcgoo13
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Thanks for the responses, I recently QT'd two fish from a local LFS and then lost them both. I've had several indicate the stress of the multiple tanks, etc is the likely issue and they indicate they just put them straight into their tank. That makes me nervous. I will mention that the ones who do this that I know locally usually get fish from a known local source or have the LFS order then and then they pick them up without them going into the LFS tanks.
Unfortunately, even though QT is good practice, it's something that takes practice. What fish were you QT'ing? How long did they last, and did they have any symptoms before they died? Did you use any medications, and how did you manage ammonia?
I've QT'd all of my fish, and had only minimal losses- where I know for a fact my display would have ich, velvet, and flukes had I not...
Brew12
Electrical Gru
I'm in this same category. I am actually fairly new to the hobby but I am proof that proper QT can work great. My QT system cost under $50 from Petco. I've lost some fish while in QT but the only fish I've struggled with after QT are Anthias. I have 4 tangs in my tank and haven't seen a sign of any parasites on them.
I encourage everyone to be very defensive of what goes into their DT. Setting up a QT system and running fish through it isn't fun. It is much more enjoyable than watching one infected addition wipe out $100's to $1000's of fish in your DT over the course of a month.
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Tmcgoo13
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Foxface and Kole Tang were the fish. The foxface had a couple spots on it, so treated with IckShield, watched ammonia and then had to do a water change, which with the medication causes issues. Both were eating very well. Set up a separate tank to switch to tank transfer, balanced the water parameters, moved the fish and both died next day. I've QT'd multiple times not had a problem, but also didn't get a fish with obvious issues. My bad on that, shouldn't have started with an obvious issue.
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Tmcgoo13
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I actually agree, the last thing I want is to have to deal with a break out of something in my DT. Not had one yet. I'm 1.5years into the hobby. Will try again, was just surprised that I've gotten the advice to just put them in my DT and make sure I'm feeding the fish well and they'll fight it off.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
IckShield is a bit of a questionable product. It does contain CP, which is a great medication, but the effectiveness of it in food hasn't been properly studied (as far as I am aware). I stick with coppersafe for this reason.
Not doing QT and building the natural immunity of a fish isn't as crazy as it may sound. It just isn't as easy as some people make it sound, either. You have to be more selective of the fish you add, maintain extremely stable and stress free water conditions, use high quality feed, and do something to limit parasite build up. It can be a very rewarding method of keeping a tank. You just have to accept that if you fall short in any one area it can be a disaster. Not much different than doing an improper QT.
While I do run everything through QT, I do my best to run my system as if it was an ich managed system. That way if anything does make it through I hope to never notice!
It's best to start with a healthy specimen for sure. But, once you get it down, you can be successful even with obvious illness. My powder brown and tusk came from a store where I observed multiple fish in the same row scratching and breathing fast. The powder brown I chose actually looked worse than the other, but ate where the other wouldn't.
I knew they had something, just wasn't sure what. I did a freshwater dip on both before adding to my QT and found flukes. Within 24 hours the tang was covered in velvet. I upped the copper (I use cupramine) over the course of about 24 hours to .3, and .5 within a day or two more. After a week at therapeutic copper, I started praziquantel for the flukes. I saved both fish, and they are both now happy in my DT:
I'm not as keen on ttm as some, as the last time I tried I almost lost the fish to a sudden ammonia spike (3 small wrasses in 10g tanks)
I'm not saying that's what it was, but tangs and foxface are both "dirty" fish as far as waste goes. If the tanks you were using were smaller, it could build up pretty quickly. Or, it could have been velvet, which without fast, effective treatment (copper or pharmaceutical grade CP from a vet) can kill very quickly.
I'm not saying that's what it was, but tangs and foxface are both "dirty" fish as far as waste goes. If the tanks you were using were smaller, it could build up pretty quickly. Or, it could have been velvet, which without fast, effective treatment (copper or pharmaceutical grade CP from a vet) can kill very quickly.
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One thing to note is that fish from the wholesalers usually come in at a low salinity usually 1.017 and have already been in bags for at least 12 hours. In these situations I think the only real option is to Quarantine so that you can quickly get the fish out of the ammonia filled bag without a huge salinity jump, not to mention suddenly having to compete with other fish, new habitats, new feeding schedule and food etc.
Diver's Den doesn't really provide proper quarantine. While they do administer some medications, it's really more of an extended conditioning prior to sale. Personally, I give all new acquisitions a thorough quarantine (TTM + deworming + observation) prior to introduction to the DT.
Even if you don't want to prophylactically medicate fish which have already been quarantined, I would still observe in QT for one month. This allows enough time for most diseases to present themselves, and as an added bonus you get to strengthen & condition your new specimen before he joins your other fish in the DT. Who will probably be less than thrilled with the arrival of another fish in their territory.
If you don't like the bare bottom/rockless QT concept, then setup a mini-version of your DT to observe new fish. Just be sure to have another tank on hand (plus all equipment) to medicate in, if the need arises.
If you don't like the bare bottom/rockless QT concept, then setup a mini-version of your DT to observe new fish. Just be sure to have another tank on hand (plus all equipment) to medicate in, if the need arises.
DancingShark
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On another note. This thread caused me to go to liveaquaria and buy for the first time. Saw they have a special going on. Bought a ruby longfin fairy wrasse, a rose stylophora coral among other things. dang impulsive buying.
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Tmcgoo13
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It's best to start with a healthy specimen for sure. But, once you get it down, you can be successful even with obvious illness. My powder brown and tusk came from a store where I observed multiple fish in the same row scratching and breathing fast. The powder brown I chose actually looked worse than the other, but ate where the other wouldn't.
I knew they had something, just wasn't sure what. I did a freshwater dip on both before adding to my QT and found flukes. Within 24 hours the tang was covered in velvet. I upped the copper (I use cupramine) over the course of about 24 hours to .3, and .5 within a day or two more. After a week at therapeutic copper, I started praziquantel for the flukes. I saved both fish, and they are both now happy in my DT:
Very nice looking fish!! Thanks for the great information!!
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