Quarantine medication process questions

ajtomase

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Hello everyone, I'm trying to organize my first quarantine setup and with my research, I think I've come up with the following process:

Part 1: run API General Cure
  1. go by the directions on the bottle, but do the 20-25% water change after 4 days
  2. Repeat dosage then 4 days later do another 20% water change
  3. Run activated carbon (or media state on bottle) for 24 hours

Part 2: run Copper Power Blue Treatment for Marine Fish, 16-Ounce
  1. 1 ppm for 6 days
  2. then 2.5 ppm for 30 days
  3. use Hanna Instruments Checker Copper High Range Colorimeter
  4. make sure when doing water change the new water going to add into quarantine tank is at the same copper level and salinity level before it enters the tank

    Part 3 (if needed): if stringy poop, add Seachem’s Focus to the food and use metronidazole​

Here are my questions for the forum:
  • Is there anything i should change about this process?
  • Thoughts about using API General Cure vs PraziPro?
  • When should I do water changes during the copper medication process since I can't measure ammonia during that time?
  • Am I using RODI water to top off the QT tank that has mediation in it (if so, do I match the level of medication in that top off before adding it)?
  • After quarantine, how should i safely add them into to main tank? Drip acclimate?
 
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BRS

MnFish1

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Hello everyone, I'm trying to organize my first quarantine setup and with my research, I think I've come up with the following process:

Part 1: run API General Cure
  1. go by the directions on the bottle, but do the 20-25% water change after 4 days
  2. Repeat dosage then 4 days later do another 20% water change
  3. Run activated carbon (or media state on bottle) for 24 hours

Part 2: run Copper Power Blue Treatment for Marine Fish, 16-Ounce
  1. 1 ppm for 6 days
  2. then 2.5 ppm for 30 days
  3. use Hanna Instruments Checker Copper High Range Colorimeter
  4. make sure when doing water change the new water going to add into quarantine tank is at the same copper level and salinity level before it enters the tank
  5. if stringy poop, add to fish’s food (also add Seachem’s Focus to the food)

Here are my questions for the forum:
  • Is there anything i should change about this process?
  • Thoughts about using API General Cure vs PraziPro?
  • When should I do water changes during the copper medication process since I can't measure ammonia during that time?
  • Am I using RODI water to top off the QT tank that has mediation in it (if so, do I match the level of medication in that top off before adding it)?
  • After quarantine, how should i safely add them into to main tank? Drip acclimate?
I will let other experts weigh in - but

1. I would not add copper to food for 'stringy poop' - I believe you mentioned that.
2. You can use an ammonia badge - for checking the copper (Seachem).
3. You should not add more copper to your top off water, only to new saltwater that you are changing.
4. Your QT tank parameters should be as close to your DT as possible. I do not see why you would need to 'drip acclimate'.
 
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ajtomase

ajtomase

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I will let other experts weigh in - but

1. I would not add copper to food for 'stringy poop' - I believe you mentioned that.
2. You can use an ammonia badge - for checking the copper (Seachem).
3. You should not add more copper to your top off water, only to new saltwater that you are changing.
4. Your QT tank parameters should be as close to your DT as possible. I do not see why you would need to 'drip acclimate'.
Thanks. I heard that you can't test for ammonia once you start a copper treatment though...is that not true?
 

ReefHog

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Part 3 (if needed): if stringy poop, add Seachem’s Focus to the food and use metronidazole
You'd be better off using Fenbendazole in place on Metro for intestinal worms since the praziquantal in the general cure did not do the job.

Thoughts about using API General Cure vs PraziPro?
Both treat internal worms (white stringy poop) but the Metro is needed to treat Brook and Uronema. General Cure does both. If after all treatments are done and there is still the white stringy poop, you could then run a coarse of Prazipro or even Fenbendazole if it's a Prazi resistant strain of worms.
 
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ajtomase

ajtomase

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You'd be better off using Fenbendazole in place on Metro for intestinal worms since the praziquantal in the general cure did not do the job.


Both treat internal worms (white stringy poop) but the Metro is needed to treat Brook and Uronema. General Cure does both. If after all treatments are done and there is still the white stringy poop, you could then run a coarse of Prazipro or even Fenbendazole if it's a Prazi resistant strain of worms.
Would i want to treat for internal worms before copper treatment?
 
BRS

ReefHog

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Would i want to treat for internal worms before copper treatment?
I use chloroquine phosphate not copper so my rutine is a little different since CP covers Uronema and Brooklynella. So in most cases, I treat with CP first followed by prazipro. (or General cure) However, in your case I would base my schedule on the fish. Chromis and Clownfish, for instance, are more prone to Uronema or Brooklynella so if I were using copper and those fish looked good and show no signs of ick or velvet, I would treat with GC first. In most cases, however, I would treat with copper first unless I suspected flukes.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Hello everyone, I'm trying to organize my first quarantine setup and with my research, I think I've come up with the following process:

Part 1: run API General Cure
  1. go by the directions on the bottle, but do the 20-25% water change after 4 days
  2. Repeat dosage then 4 days later do another 20% water change
  3. Run activated carbon (or media state on bottle) for 24 hours

Part 2: run Copper Power Blue Treatment for Marine Fish, 16-Ounce
  1. 1 ppm for 6 days
  2. then 2.5 ppm for 30 days
  3. use Hanna Instruments Checker Copper High Range Colorimeter
  4. make sure when doing water change the new water going to add into quarantine tank is at the same copper level and salinity level before it enters the tank

    Part 3 (if needed): if stringy poop, add Seachem’s Focus to the food and use metronidazole​

Here are my questions for the forum:
  • Is there anything i should change about this process?
  • Thoughts about using API General Cure vs PraziPro?
  • When should I do water changes during the copper medication process since I can't measure ammonia during that time?
  • Am I using RODI water to top off the QT tank that has mediation in it (if so, do I match the level of medication in that top off before adding it)?
  • After quarantine, how should i safely add them into to main tank? Drip acclimate?
You should flip the copper and GC timing. The reasoning is that protozoans kill early and swiftly, often while fish are being dosed with GC or prazi. Always treat for protozoans first, then flukes. I prefer Prazipro over GC, as I don't think metronidazole is very useful. Also, ramp your copper up in 24 hours, I've seen too many people lose fish to protozoans while slowly ramping copper.

You do not dose any water that you are replacing due to evaporation, only water that you have physically drained out.

You do not even need to acclimate your fish at the end. All you need to do is match the salinity and temperature of your QT with your DT and gently move the fish over. As long as the pH is crazy different, the fish will be fine.

Here is my quarantine process:

Observe fish for 72 hours, let them settle in and start feeding.
Dose 50% coppersafe, allow it to mix and then test to confirm dose and and add the second half dose
Hold at 2 ppm coppersafe for 30 days.
Lower copper level to below 1 ppm with water changes
Dose with prazipro 3x seven days apart
Observe the fish for two weeks with no meds
Give some fish a 5 minute FW dip to screen for Neobenedenia flukes - if seen, hold tank at half salinity for 35 days.

Skip the medicated food - unless you are willing to do it correctly (see the article I posted as well as the medicated food calculator that another member developed). Think about the logic here: you add some medication to some amount of Focus (the instructions vary from 1:1 to 1:5 on the packaging!). Then, you add some amount of that to some amount of food. Then, you feed some of the food to the fish. Any idea as to how much medication the fish actually got?(grin)

Jay
 
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ajtomase

ajtomase

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You should flip the copper and GC timing. The reasoning is that protozoans kill early and swiftly, often while fish are being dosed with GC or prazi. Always treat for protozoans first, then flukes. I prefer Prazipro over GC, as I don't think metronidazole is very useful. Also, ramp your copper up in 24 hours, I've seen too many people lose fish to protozoans while slowly ramping copper.

You do not dose any water that you are replacing due to evaporation, only water that you have physically drained out.

You do not even need to acclimate your fish at the end. All you need to do is match the salinity and temperature of your QT with your DT and gently move the fish over. As long as the pH is crazy different, the fish will be fine.

Here is my quarantine process:

Observe fish for 72 hours, let them settle in and start feeding.
Dose 50% coppersafe, allow it to mix and then test to confirm dose and and add the second half dose
Hold at 2 ppm coppersafe for 30 days.
Lower copper level to below 1 ppm with water changes
Dose with prazipro 3x seven days apart
Observe the fish for two weeks with no meds
Give some fish a 5 minute FW dip to screen for Neobenedenia flukes - if seen, hold tank at half salinity for 35 days.

Skip the medicated food - unless you are willing to do it correctly (see the article I posted as well as the medicated food calculator that another member developed). Think about the logic here: you add some medication to some amount of Focus (the instructions vary from 1:1 to 1:5 on the packaging!). Then, you add some amount of that to some amount of food. Then, you feed some of the food to the fish. Any idea as to how much medication the fish actually got?(grin)

Jay
This is great! This helps a newbie out so much! I'd love to use your quarantine process! How often do you perform water changes and how much % change:
-during the 72 hour process
-during the 30 days copper treatment
-switching from copper to prazipro
-during the prazipro process
-during the no meds weeks

During those water changes, do you dose the water your adding or get the levels back up after adding the new water? Do you use some type of carbon media to get the medication out of the water before changing to the next medication or just use the water changes to get rid of the medication?
 

Jay Hemdal

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This is great! This helps a newbie out so much! I'd love to use your quarantine process! How often do you perform water changes and how much % change:
-during the 72 hour process
-during the 30 days copper treatment
-switching from copper to prazipro
-during the prazipro process
-during the no meds weeks

During those water changes, do you dose the water your adding or get the levels back up after adding the new water? Do you use some type of carbon media to get the medication out of the water before changing to the next medication or just use the water changes to get rid of the medication?
I always use quarantine tanks with stable biofilters, so the need for water changes is minimal. When needed, if I change during the copper treatment, I just redose for the replacement water. Carbon actually doesn’t remove copper very well, so I use water changes at the end of that treatment. I always aerate well during prazi treatments and change 25% of the water before each of the 3 treatments.
Jay
 
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ajtomase

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If I wanted to start my QT before I have my main tank cycled, how would I get my bio filters to be stable? Do you use the Seachem to watch the ammonia level during the copper treatment phase and change if it's anything but 0? How much much % water change do you do during this process? After I test the water after finishing the water change, how do I know how much copper I'll need to add to bring it back up to 2.0 and how long do I wait after adding the redose before testing again?

for the water change at the end of treatments, are we talking like a 50% water change?
 
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ajtomase

ajtomase

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I always use quarantine tanks with stable biofilters, so the need for water changes is minimal. When needed, if I change during the copper treatment, I just redose for the replacement water. Carbon actually doesn’t remove copper very well, so I use water changes at the end of that treatment. I always aerate well during prazi treatments and change 25% of the water before each of the 3 treatments.
Jay
Hi Jay, in addition to my previous post's questions, when you say FW dip some fish, which some fish do you mean?
 

Jay Hemdal

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Hi Jay, in addition to my previous post's questions, when you say FW dip some fish, which some fish do you mean?
I just meant a representative of the group - since you use FW dips as a diagnostic tool, you don't need to risk every single fish doing it. I usually choose the species I know are prone to Neobenedenia - angelfish, butterflies, etc.

Jay
 

Jay Hemdal

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If I wanted to start my QT before I have my main tank cycled, how would I get my bio filters to be stable? Do you use the Seachem to watch the ammonia level during the copper treatment phase and change if it's anything but 0? How much much % water change do you do during this process? After I test the water after finishing the water change, how do I know how much copper I'll need to add to bring it back up to 2.0 and how long do I wait after adding the redose before testing again?

for the water change at the end of treatments, are we talking like a 50% water change?
You can use DrTim's bacteria to get the cycle started. They also sell ammonium chloride that serves as a food for the bacteria, but you cant use that with fish in the tank.
I'm not a big fan of the seachem alert badges, you need to watch them closely and I prefer to double check with another test kit. Remember that copper power and coppersafe interfere with ammonia tests to some degree (false positive).
There is no set amount of water changes - you need to change water in response to water quality. I find that since you should know the exact volume of the water you are replacing after the water changes, you just dose that with a full dose of copper when adding it back to the tank. It may help to have a more accurate measuring device, like a pipette to measure small amounts of copper.

Jay
 

Jay Hemdal

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@Jay Hemdal ,Jay,how many weeks in total does your quarantine protocol take?,I'm a little confused.
30 days copper, 14 days prazi and 14 days observation at the end. Tack on 35 days of hypo if Neobenedenia flukes are found. A Reef2Reef member is writing it up for me, but it’s going to take another week or so to refine it....
Jay
 
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