Question about cycling methods

[Reinboordt]

Howdy all,

My last reef tank was in 2008 and when I set it up with my dad in 2005 our only option was fish in method or ghost feeding. My dad wanted to add fish and The store assured us the few mollies we added would be fine and they all survived for quite some time afterwards before being given to my uncle.

So I know that now the fish in method is frowned upon and we have so many more options. I’ve been doing a lot of research over the last year or two and I’m now looking at an empty tank ready to set up when I get my RODI installed.

I prefer forums to YouTube but after watching all the recommended BRS series and others I’m getting a lot of reef content on my algorithm. If you were only Watching videos on YouTube you would assume everyone doses with microbacter7 or another BB product and adds fish right in. Obviously this is edited and all for show and these YouTubers probably lose fish and just replace them goldfish style.

I guess what I want to know, is that still considered fish in cycling?

I have a friend with a FOWLR who wants to change out his sand. He’s going to give me a bunch of his live sand and some seeded media from his sump to kickstart my cycle. (I know I need to have my water and rocks in and some sand, the correct temperature and salinity or I’ll just be killing any BB and critters in the sand).

After that I’ll need to have an ammonia source to keep the bacteria alive. Would any fish that I added at that point still be considered“fish in cycling”? Even though the cycle may already have happened

If so that would still be frowned upon right?Or should I just ghost feed until I read nitrates?

Sorry if this is a dumb question but Im thinking to have a tank progress thread and I want to make sure im not doing something that will enrage users or be considered inhumane.

Thanks all!

 

[Mebbid]

Adding used sand can cause a nutrient bomb in your tank. It'll also add a lot of beneficial bacteria. You could plausibly have a fully cycled tank right off the start, but you'd have to test to be sure. Just be prepared to do a few very large water changes before adding anything in. Keep in mind, along with anything good you will also inherit anything bad such as ich which most saltwater tanks have in it.

I'd also take it really slowly with the light. Wait a few weeks at least for things to settle down before turning them on, even if you've already added fish.

The BRS 5 minute saltwater aquarium guide is really nice. Serious Reefs on youtube is ran by Ryan and is a very good resource for information as well. The only downside is it requires a subscription. He goes over a path for starting and cycling a tank to skip the majority of the ugly phase in a lot of depth.

 

[tbrown]

Adding live sand and live rock helps to jumpstart the cycle. I used live sand but not rock in my tank, then I dosed with both Microbacter 7 and LiveAquaria live nitrifying bacteria. I still waited a week to add my first fish and corals but nitrification was already taking place and I had 0 losses.

@Reefer Matt is currently running a "test cycle" using dry rock, dry sand, and a raw shrimp. I believe he's seeing good nitrification in less than 2 weeks without adding any bacteria.

 

[Reinboordt]

Adding used sand can cause a nutrient bomb in your tank. It'll also add a lot of beneficial bacteria. You could plausibly have a fully cycled tank right off the start, but you'd have to test to be sure. Just be prepared to do a few very large water changes before adding anything in. Keep in mind, along with anything good you will also inherit anything bad such as ich which most saltwater tanks have in it.

I'd also take it really slowly with the light. Wait a few weeks at least for things to settle down before turning them on, even if you've already added fish.

The BRS 5 minute saltwater aquarium guide is really nice. Serious Reefs on youtube is ran by Ryan and is a very good resource for information as well. The only downside is it requires a subscription. He goes over a path for starting and cycling a tank to skip the majority of the ugly phase in a lot of depth.

I think some of the issues I’ve had with my research are there being too many “what ifs”. Everyone has a slightly different method and it can get confusing when some contradict themselves.

I’m not sure exactly how much sand I’m getting, I guess as much as I want. Would it be better to get a smaller amount then? I’ll also be seeding some of his sump media into my sump.

I’m not particularly in a rush to add fish. I don’t mind the “ ugly phase” because I’d like to create food for the clean up crew. It’s part of the process for me. My main draw to the salty side is an ecosystem and inverts.

Is it the process of the excess nutrients from the sand combining with the light to create some kind of a bloom?
Thanks for the heads up I’m happy to keep the lights off I’m just curious as to why.

I’m not really a fan of clown fish but my wife likes them and it’s nice she’s taken an interest. That would probably be the first fish I add (a pair of regular old occelaris)

 

[Mebbid]

I think some of the issues I’ve had with my research are there being too many “what ifs”. Everyone has a slightly different method and it can get confusing when some contradict themselves.

I’m not sure exactly how much sand I’m getting, I guess as much as I want. Would it be better to get a smaller amount then? I’ll also be seeding some of his sump media into my sump.

I’m not particularly in a rush to add fish. I don’t mind the “ ugly phase” because I’d like to create food for the clean up crew. It’s part of the process for me. My main draw to the salty side is an ecosystem and inverts.

Is it the process of the excess nutrients from the sand combining with the light to create some kind of a bloom?
Thanks for the heads up I’m happy to keep the lights off I’m just curious as to why.

I’m not really a fan of clown fish but my wife likes them and it’s nice she’s taken an interest. That would probably be the first fish I add (a pair of regular old occelaris)

The ugly phase is a combination of a lot of things. A huge imbalance of nutrients, an immature microbiome, too much light, lack of an appropriate cleanup crew. You can prevent a lot of it by just taking things slow and ramping up the lights slowly. Things will likely be amplified if there's too many nutrients in the water.

You could seed a sandbed with his used sand, that would likely speed up the process the nitrogen cycle a lot and start you out with pods seeded into the tank. I just recently started my newest tank using carib sea ocean direct sand and seeded it with some live sand harvested from the ocean from tampa bay saltwater, it's turning out really well so far.

 

[Mebbid]

I think some of the issues I’ve had with my research are there being too many “what ifs”. Everyone has a slightly different method and it can get confusing when some contradict themselves.

I’m not sure exactly how much sand I’m getting, I guess as much as I want. Would it be better to get a smaller amount then? I’ll also be seeding some of his sump media into my sump.

I’m not particularly in a rush to add fish. I don’t mind the “ ugly phase” because I’d like to create food for the clean up crew. It’s part of the process for me. My main draw to the salty side is an ecosystem and inverts.

Is it the process of the excess nutrients from the sand combining with the light to create some kind of a bloom?
Thanks for the heads up I’m happy to keep the lights off I’m just curious as to why.

I’m not really a fan of clown fish but my wife likes them and it’s nice she’s taken an interest. That would probably be the first fish I add (a pair of regular old occelaris)

if the ecosystem does interest you BRS did a series on the microbiome which had a lot of interesting stuff to learn.

Biome and Cycling

 

[Reinboordt]

Thank you @Mebbid i will check that link out!

My understanding was that the light is necessary to create food for the cleanup crew so they do not starve?

I will be using base rock. The stores I have been to recently only sell base due to aiptasia outbreaks in previous batches. I live in a landlocked Canadian province so I’m limited by what I can get from the ocean. I do have some small bleached porous coral pieces I picked up in the Philippines on vacation years ago. Very dead but I think thy would be a great biological medium to add to the sump.

I need to do some fiddling around with the sump sections to optimize things from my planted freshwater set up.

 

[Mebbid]

Thank you @Mebbid i will check that link out!

My understanding was that the light is necessary to create food for the cleanup crew so they do not starve?

I will be using base rock. The stores I have been to recently only sell base due to aiptasia outbreaks in previous batches.

I need to do some fiddling around with the sump sections to optimize things from my planted freshwater set up.

Yes, and no. You're not going to want to add a clean up crew until you're growing something for them to clean up. They aren't gonna do a lot for cyano or dinos regardless, so if you can avoid them then that's good.

 

[Reinboordt]

Yes, and no. You're not going to want to add a clean up crew until you're growing something for them to clean up. They aren't gonna do a lot for cyano or dinos regardless, so if you can avoid them then that's good.

Okay that makes sense. There wasn’t really an issue with Dino’s back when I did it before. The ambient light in the room would probably be sufficient to grow some algae.

I’m happy to wait and be patient I just wouldn’t want to lose the cycle for whatever reason

 

[Mebbid]

Okay that makes sense. There wasn’t really an issue with Dino’s back when I did it before. The ambient light in the room would probably be sufficient to grow some algae.

I’m happy to wait and be patient I just wouldn’t want to lose the cycle for whatever reason

If you want the light on (it's really hard not to) tune it down to like 10% or something. It's still fairly bright as far as aquariums go and you'll be able to see everything.

 

[Reinboordt]

If you want the light on (it's really hard not to) tune it down to like 10% or something. It's still fairly bright as far as aquariums go and you'll be able to see everything.

Awesome thank you for the advice. I can tune it down pretty low so that’s a nice option