Radion G5 Rant. $900?

[Perry]

My not so popular input:
I will take water stability and clarity over lighting, all day long. That requirement being met, you could probably keep most corals alive using old school power compacts. In 2006 I had a booming 75 gallon sps tank, lit by a tek 6 bulb fixture. At that time, I had many reefers telling me that t5's wont work, it was so much fun posting pics of my tank, beautiful, colorful acros :) Back then, many claimed sps could only thrive under MH, and use of vho's to supplement. 15 years later, now t5 is pretty well accepted for growing sps. I have never used a par meter, old school observation, and proper coral placement. Thinking ANY lighting will guarantee success is misleading and not true. For example, I have not seen a speciazed refugium light do anything that a pc, t5, or cheap 6500 k led bulb do, as far as growing chaeto. I use the latter, and am growing healthy chaeto like crazy, 25watt led 6500k led bulb from HD. Sure the red spectrum looks cool, but based on years of keeping chaeto, I wouldn't personally wsste my money on chaeto.
As far as the reef goes, SPS corsls aside, I feel trendy led lights are just that, and often used in a scenario where its unnecessary for certain coral keeping. Use them, don't use them, it doesn't matter to me, spend your money as you choose. I just find it odd when I see a 50 gallon tank with 2k in lighting, using a cheaply made chinese skimmer and pumps. Do they work, absolutely, so do their lights ;) Corals dont care what your lighting choice is, they just need what they need to be happy and grow :)

 

[atoll]

One of the concerns I have about anything new like these G5s is long term reliability. That is something unknown as yet. You can say well the technology and LEDs are proven but nobody will know for real for sometime, then again and hopefully not maybe too soon. Ask Ecotech how much to replace an LED is one or more goes out of warranty, am not hopeful it won't mean the whole board but perhaps not, who knows.

 

[alton]

I grew coral with CFL's, the problem was after 8 months they dropped such a large percentage, I had to change lamps way too often and they were expensive. Metal halide SE lamps lasted an average of 18 months with one going bad at 12 months and one lasting 24 months. Your eyes and corals could not tell the difference in any of them with a 10% drop which is when I changed lamps. But a Par or Foot Candle Meter could. When leds first came out and they advertised 50,000 hours it was a joke and most did not, but in time that has come true with quality leds. My oldest fixture is 8 and out of seven led fixtures, I have only had to replace one driver. The following is a picture of my 29 gallon with a 96 watt CFL. If you look close enough you will see some trash palys and bubble algae, back then I thought it was cool to have stuff grow out of your rocks. That strain of bubble algae was easily removed unlike today's that spreads and takes over a tank

 

[Squidward]

As soon as I see any ad or youtube guy start to test them, I immediately change the channel/page.

 

[BurgerFish]

For that reason, I bought ATI T5. Radions are overpriced for a light with small coverage and 1y warranty...

 

[Biocuber29]

If you don't want to spend the money then don't. You are paying Ecotech because they have spent the money on research and development to make this product. Sure you can go cheaper but it might not have the same quality of features. Like some one already said you can buy a ford or a BMW, they are both cars but they are definitely not the same thing.

A six month salary was supposed to be spent on a wedding ring not a set of lights

 

[Biocuber29]

If you don't want to spend the money then don't. You are paying Ecotech because they have spent the money on research and development to make this product. Sure you can go cheaper but it might not have the same quality of features. Like some one already said you can buy a ford or a BMW, they are both cars but they are definitely not the same thing.
The problem is you are paying an outrageous price not a fair price or maybe it is but how many people can afford the so called price I know I can’t. It’s turning into a hobby for high class society and how many of them really take care of there on tank. Raise the prices make it untouchable for everyday people pretty soon no hobby. BMW bring money with, at maintenance intervals. You are correct but it or not. Hobby or not. Cheers.

 

[BurgerFish]

If they spend so much money on research, why they don't provide 3-5y warranty for a quality and expensive product?

 

[Worthy1]

Not sure what the problem really is or why people are getting so worked up. If its not for you then there are plenty of other options. Ecotech dont just make the only expensive light out there thats for sure. Research and development isnt cheap and they are quality units. Are they making some good coin of them? sure but they arent exactly bad lights.

I have the G4 Pro's and the G5's arent impressing me to swap over to. I had awesome growth with my old Maxspect Razors so there are lights for every budget and need. Maybe the fact there is such of a small difference will see an eventual price drop when most people see it is a better option to go out and grab some price slashed G4's with a diffuser for the same coverage.

 

[Kfactor]

If they spend so much money on research, why they don't provide 3-5y warranty for a quality and expensive product?

Yea that’s crazy that you only get one year and I bet it’s hard to get warranty they will find somthing to make it your fault lol

 

[Reef AquaCult]

I think the retailers will take issue with you regarding the markup profit on most lights like Radions.

I’m assuming it’s a 20-30% profit for a retailer given the standard pricing but if you know more please let us know!

 

[that Reef Guy]

Expense not experience.
Do I know anyone who is turning hobby into a business? If that is the question you are asking then yes I do. Most vendors use Echotech lights, not all pay Our cost but some do.

Most Vendors do not use Radions.

Some do but not most.

I know Vendors with all Types of Lighting.

Just like anybody else people have success growing coral under many types of lights including Vendors.

 

[atoll]

I’m assuming it’s a 20-30% profit for a retailer given the standard pricing but if you know more please let us know!

Not for me to say but you might well be surprised.

 

[alton]

I love this website, I have received so much knowledge and have learned so much from so many. But I do not understand threads like this one where so many want to harpoon, grandstand, complain about a company that continues to improve and come out with new ideas and products. I have one MP40, one MP10, and one M1, Radions are out of my budget.

 

[atoll]

But I do not understand threads like this one where so many want to harpoon, grandstand, complain about a company that continues to improve and come out with new ideas and products. I have one MP40, one MP10, and one M1, Radions are out of my budget.

You and many more, perhaps that is why people complain about how expensive their lights are do you think? Just saying f.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

If you like/want the light then buy it, if you don't then don't buy it.

R2R is a great place to come learn, discuss, and debate; however, we can only beat a dead horse for so long...

Hey #MODS I think this thread has run its course.....

 

[BZOFIQ]

If you like/want the light then buy it, if you don't then don't buy it.

R2R is a great place to come learn, discuss, and debate; however, we can only beat a dead horse for so long...

Hey #MODS I think this thread has run its course.....

Usually in an open format, threads that have run its course fall back.

I do agree re buy/don't buy - vote with your money!

 

[stephj03]

IMO Eco-Tech is in a weird spot and the G5 looks like an attempt to navigate a season where they no longer fit the trend well.

Eco-Tech blew up when everyone was downgrading to smaller tanks and keeping fewer SPS just to try to stay in the hobby. Radion pucks and Kessils spotlights were purpose built for that environment.

But now the trend is back to larger, SPS centric builds/upgrades and pucks are a forced solution for those systems that doesn't fit well vs panels/T5/MH for the same money.

There's pressure from panels above (orphek) and below (reefbreeder) and a mounting MH/T5 comeback. The G5 looks like an attempt to compete against all of these at once without a clear performance based message.

To me it just makes it look like they're conceding that on a tank of 4ft or longer:

1. I cannot have spread and blend with pucks regardless of optics

2. I do not have to have pucks to achieve blend

3. I can not replace 250w of MH/T5 with less than 200W of LED (ie there's not really an electricity savings)

 

[stephj03]

IMO Eco-Tech would have been much better served to launch an LED hybrid unit that replaced the need for the aquatic life fixture. That seems to me to be what the market has actually adopted.....

Having an solution that is LED first with T5 supplements (ATI/Geissman are T5 first IMO) and able to AB+ LEDs and dimmable T5 via Eco-Tech or Apex apps would likely be well received.

But to do this, you would have to concede that LED is not an optimal stand alone solution which I think will always be a third rail type deal for Eco-Tech/Kessil etc.

 

[SyracuseMatt]

What may be getting lost in all this is that, at least in my opinion, moving from a 'puck style' light to a 'panel style' light has at least the potential to significantly improve these lights, allowing: 1) people to run them lower in height off of the tank; 2) to run fewer fixtures and still have reasonably even lighting levels; 3) potentially to feel less of a need to have a hybrid type solution, supplementing their LEDs with T5s; and 4) ultimately to have more success because of the reduced likelihood of having a tank that is both overlit (frying corals right under the pucks) and underlit (insufficiently lighting corals a foot away). If the spread is as much better as the BRS par testing video suggests and if the abandonment of the puck does not result in poorer color blending, G5s seem likely to be significantly better than G4s. Since they're being sold at the same price (regardless of you opinion of that price), it seems like Ecotech is providing a better, possibly significant better, light for the same price. How is that a bad thing?

Matt