red sea reefers are not worth the cost

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czoolander

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Red sea themselves admitted there was a problem with the tanks and are warrantying affected tanks, its not just a couple. They said they fixed the issue in the newer tanks but if i remember correctly it was something to do with how the stand was designed in one of the models. Theyre standing behind the product which i like to see but to say it shouldnt be worried about if you have one of the affected models is ignorant. Id definitely look into it if you have a red sea tank and if it was one of the affected models get it replaced before its an issue.
The thing is that it was just a couple lol they said that themselves if you read the message but we can agree to disagree that's not a problem . There are literally thousands of these tanks in use world wide right now and not the " major seam issue" you claim there is . I can guarantee you this however seam blowouts happen more often from homemade tanks then they do from major companies you just wont hear about them because the average larry isn't going to blame themselves for terrible craftsmanship.

Ill sleep confident tonight with my red sea tank thanks :)

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mmorriso

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I struggle to understand the point of this thread. Consumers have options, this is not a problem.

For people who want to jump straight into reefing, a Red Sea, Waterbox or CADE aquarium is a great place to start. There's no work required beyond assembly of the aquarium and installation of your active equipment. Many people do not want to do their own plumbing and would be very uncomfortable drilling an aquarium.

For people who have specific requirements, people who have budget constraints and would like to work to maximise the amount of tank they get or people who have no budget constraints and would be happy to pay to get a tank that meets their exact requirements, a custom tank is a great option.

Most people are in one of the above categories. You seem to be trying to argue that people in the first category are misguided and should all be considering building their own tank, but most people are not interested in that. I am an engineer and regularly fabricate many large items with critical applications. It's within the scope of my abilities to build a tank that meets my every need, but I still choose to buy "big-box" tanks because it saves me time and hassle and I'm confident I'll enjoy the end product based on seeing so many other tanks from the same manufacturer.

Every item that is not tailored to your needs will annoy you in some way, as the vendor is attempting to meet the average set of requirements, not your specific requirements. For many thousands of reefers, the commodity tanks work just fine, including the modest ATO and the plumbing. Of course there will be issues over a large enough population, I don't think any tank will be immune from this, but Red Sea is demonstrably a leader with regards to the support they provide after an issue arises.

How is this different from lights, or pumps, or skimmers? In each product category, there are premium options, options that are highly modular, options that are set and forget, options that are very visually appealing. In each instance, you make a product choice that works for you. No one puts a gun to your head and forces you to buy a Royal Exclusiv, just like no one is forced to buy a Red Sea or Waterbox tank. Many people do though, because they meet their needs, fit within their budget, look great and come with excellent after sales support.

I'd argue that companies like Red Sea and Waterbox have made reefing very attractive and accessible to more people and have contributed to many more reefers in the hobby that would be otherwise by lowering the barrier to entry with the ready to rock products offerings.
 

JNalley

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So, I don't really have a dog in this fight... But the price point, for what you get, was why I decided to go with a FijiCube for my next tank. Red Sea's just didn't seem worth it by any stretch. I get a larger tank, in a better footprint, for less money.
 

PeterC99

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"Are Not Worth the Cost" is one opinion and can be said about so many products in this hobby (lighting, controllers, skimmers, etc.).

"Are Not Worth the Cost" can also be said about many other products outside the hobby. Many people will not buy a new car because of the large depreciation that occurs in the first couple of years. They will only buy used.

But the other opinion side is that many reefers find great value in many of these products.

To each their own...
 

jamesdomini4

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So, I don't really have a dog in this fight... But the price point, for what you get, was why I decided to go with a FijiCube for my next tank. Red Sea's just didn't seem worth it by any stretch. I get a larger tank, in a better footprint, for less money.
That looks like a good deal. It’s Red Sea with almost all the modifications people wish they did.
 
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mmorriso

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So, I don't really have a dog in this fight... But the price point, for what you get, was why I decided to go with a FijiCube for my next tank. Red Sea's just didn't seem worth it by any stretch. I get a larger tank, in a better footprint, for less money.
That's exactly my point, you made a product choice based on your needs, your budgets and what you're comfortable adding yourself.

I'm not American, but I'll use BRS for pricing:

- A Red Sea reefer 350 (73 gal) is $2,124
- A Fiji cube (76 gal) is $1,849

So there is a $275 price difference. From what I can see, if we exclude subjective things like visual appeal and quality, you would then add:

- A sump of your choice
- Mechanical filtration such as a filter sock
- Media baskets
- An ATO system
- All required plumbing

If you are experienced or handy, I think you could easily add that for $275, but once again, that's your choice. If you weren't as handy or experienced, it's completely reasonable that you would just pay for the reefer and be done.
 

JNalley

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That's exactly my point, you made a product choice based on your needs, your budgets and what you're comfortable adding yourself.

I'm not American, but I'll use BRS for pricing:

- A Red Sea reefer 350 (73 gal) is $2,124
- A Fiji cube (76 gal) is $1,849

So there is a $275 price difference. From what I can see, if we exclude subjective things like visual appeal and quality, you would then add:

- A sump of your choice
- Mechanical filtration such as a filter sock
- Media baskets
- An ATO system
- All required plumbing

If you are experienced or handy, I think you could easily add that for $275, but once again, that's your choice. If you weren't as handy or experienced, it's completely reasonable that you would just pay for the reefer and be done.
So, the 2 models you chose are both 4ft tanks, Fiji actually makes an 81-Gallon 3ft tank (Better footprint for what I want) that is cheaper than their 76-Gallon. Fully loaded with FijiSump and plumbing, it's only $100 more than the Reefer 350, and I quite like the FijiCube Advanced Sump designs. Also, I believe RedSea charges freight, and Fiji is free shipping.
 

mmorriso

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So, the 2 models you chose are both 4ft tanks, Fiji actually makes an 81-Gallon 3ft tank (Better footprint for what I want) that is cheaper than their 76-Gallon. Fully loaded with FijiSump and plumbing, it's only $100 more than the Reefer 350, and I quite like the FijiCube Advanced Sump designs. Also, I believe RedSea charges freight, and Fiji is free shipping.
I get it, I'm not critiquing your choice, my overarching point is exactly like you said, you made a decision that is better for what you want. For many people, based on number of Red Sea tanks out there, the Reefer 350 will be the closest to what they want.
 

Duncan62

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I have had a Cleair tank for 8 years I was tempted by the red sea but my lfs was having a sale on these tanks it's 178 gallons display and has a 29 gallon sump divided into three sections it's the Maz 1500 model and is 1500mm x 500mm x 900mm it came with 4 T5 lights in the hood (that I eventually replaced for leds's), after reading these issues I am happy to have my tank, I’ve had issues same as anyone, the return pipe leaked on day one and now I have recently upgraded to a fleece roller I have a salt seaping issue on the drain pipe I'm going to have to look at soon, apart from those slight hiccups I'm happy, one other issue is having a depth of 900mm (35 inches for the American readers :)) is its impossible to touch the bottom without using a step ladder, so I am quite envious of the ability of red sea reefers ability in most cases to get to the bottom of their tank easier than me but I have 2 Red Sea led 160s lights above it now and I love them bit weird to setup but still love them :-D
I'd love to need a ladder to work on my tank. I'd say you made the better choice.
 

JNalley

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I'd love to need a ladder to work on my tank. I'd say you made the better choice.
hehe, I'm going to need one, not because the tank is too deep, but because instead of buying a full FijiCube Package, I can save myself about $600 by buying just the Sump and Tank, and I only have to pay a local carpenter $250 to build be a stand that is 40" high (as opposed to the 33" high that the Fiji would come with if I bought the full package). It will put the top of the tank at about 5'2.5"
 
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a4edwin

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That's exactly my point, you made a product choice based on your needs, your budgets and what you're comfortable adding yourself.

I'm not American, but I'll use BRS for pricing:

- A Red Sea reefer 350 (73 gal) is $2,124
- A Fiji cube (76 gal) is $1,849

So there is a $275 price difference. From what I can see, if we exclude subjective things like visual appeal and quality, you would then add:

- A sump of your choice
- Mechanical filtration such as a filter sock
- Media baskets
- An ATO system
- All required plumbing

If you are experienced or handy, I think you could easily add that for $275, but once again, that's your choice. If you weren't as handy or experienced, it's completely reasonable that you would just pay for the reefer and be done.
Or you can go with an sca 80g which I would consider plug and play because it includes a skimmer and return pump for 1699.00
 

A Young reefer

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I seriously don’t understand the point of this thread, it has alot of contradictions op first stated that Red Sea reefers are not worth the price for the points he listed and compared them to an AIO. most if not all his points apply to all other brands. What other brand provides with an gravity fed ATO? Cade? Go take a look at the price of these things, if you are not happy with the price point of a Red Sea tank you won’t like the price point of a CADE or a similar build from glass cages.
He then stated that he’s not only talking about Red Sea it’s for all other companies. You can’t simply expect to pay for a branded tank made in a factory like how you would pay for a custom diy tank. I have run through zero of the issues you stated most of them might happen because of consumer mistakes some do not level their aquariums properly and also any float valve is gonna clog with all the salt crepe and junk in there, it needs regular maintenance.
I think that there are many other truly overpriced products in this hobby that you should worry about. But at the end what is expensive to one individual might not be expensive to another
 

amygetsalife

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"Big box" style tanks are exactly the same as "big box" computers, or furniture or houses even. They're commodity items that will get the job done for most consumers / users of the product. They are economical due to economies of scale and come with features that will be useful to the majority of users. They have advantages with regards to product support due to inventory management and supply chains. A tank manufacturer will provide warranty support as long as you're in the same country as purchase, whereas you may not get support from a custom tank maker if you move out of your city.

Concrete finishing and foundation. Owned track hoes, bobcats , and many finishing machines. Like you, equipment failure cost me money in lots of ways. I do agree with you 100% that 99% of the time you do get what you pay for. There are exceptions

I have alot of high end accounts and I can tell you first hand that mower with the cheap stamped deck that was 3k cheaper isn't going to give the same quality cut of a higher end commercial unit. There are plenty of things to cut corners on. Equipment isn't one of them.
Thank you for your comments! I couldn't care less about this discussion since I've already got my tank, but I'm also a business owner...retail....who has to compete with big box versions of our products and explain why that $79 sewing machine from Walmart is not something to compare with the machines I sell and support. Add in nearly 2 years of covid and I'm just about at the breaking point.

Starting a reef tank has been such a wonderful new hobby for us! Something to give me a break from thinking about the business 24/7. Your comments applied to reefing and business, especially yours, Mmorriso (totally adding that to my list of explanations) was just the thing I needed to hear.

Thanks and happy reefing!
 

Duncan62

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Thank you for your comments! I couldn't care less about this discussion since I've already got my tank, but I'm also a business owner...retail....who has to compete with big box versions of our products and explain why that $79 sewing machine from Walmart is not something to compare with the machines I sell and support. Add in nearly 2 years of covid and I'm just about at the breaking point.

Starting a reef tank has been such a wonderful new hobby for us! Something to give me a break from thinking about the business 24/7. Your comments applied to reefing and business, especially yours, Mmorriso (totally adding that to my list of explanations) was just the thing I needed to hear.

Thanks and happy reefing!
I hope your business and your tank are doing great. Like I said earlier, when dealing with a pro (you) you pay more because you're getting the advice and service from a pro with expertise . A beginning aquarist might be fine with a cheaper tank but as knowledge grows so does the need for better quality equipment. Most people on a budget could never take part in this hobby is they had to spend thousands up front just to get started. My daughters first sewing machine came from Walmart. Now she has a long arm that cost more than my car. Skill increases and expensive equipment follows. Best wishes on your business and tank. It takes guts to start both. :)
 

amygetsalife

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I hope your business and your tank are doing great. Like I said earlier, when dealing with a pro (you) you pay more because you're getting the advice and service from a pro with expertise . A beginning aquarist might be fine with a cheaper tank but as knowledge grows so does the need for better quality equipment. Most people on a budget could never take part in this hobby is they had to spend thousands up front just to get started. My daughters first sewing machine came from Walmart. Now she has a long arm that cost more than my car. Skill increases and expensive equipment follows. Best wishes on your business and tank. It takes guts to start both. :)
Yes! The starter stuff has a place. A way to dip the toes. I could say I wish it were cheaper to reef (especially if you aren't crafty or a DIYer) but since living organisms aren't the same as cloth, a bit of a barrier to entry is good!
 
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Duncan62

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Yes! The starter stuff has a place. A way to dip the toes. I could say I wish it were cheaper to reef (especially if you aren't crafty or a DIYer) but since living organisms aren't the same as cloth, a bit of a barrier to entry is good!
Agreed. Reefing is not for ones who want instant gratification. It is a commitment. Just like a dog or a horse. You have to put in the time and take care of it. I'm one of those guys who sees something that works and goes home and makes one. Lol poor guys have to be creative. Lol. I have found that the gadgets sometimes cause people to not pay enough attention to their tanks. If you have a doser and ato it's easy to say I'll check it tomorrow. I have ato on everything but dose manually. It takes time but you are engaged with your creatures every day. If need a sewing machine I'm calling you. Lol. Enjoy your creatures
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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this thread serves me this purpose:

I have already read 15 or 20 seam splitting red sea threads.


factoring the QA reports here I'm not sold, so, if was new tank shopping these would be the last I'd buy. I do not want a 1% of seam splitting from the only brand I can see seam splitting in pattern. search it out, red sea seam split.

if I compare that to 'oceanic aquarium seam split' I get more favorable results by number
 

jmichaelh7

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this thread serves me this purpose:

I have already read 15 or 20 seam splitting red sea threads.


factoring the QA reports here I'm not sold, so, if was new tank shopping these would be the last I'd buy. I do not want a 1% of seam splitting from the only brand I can see seam splitting in pattern. search it out, red sea seam split.

if I compare that to 'oceanic aquarium seam split' I get more favorable results by number
can you post your personal pics of the seam?
 

davidcalgary29

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can you post your personal pics of the seam?
I think that @brandon429 was providing a hypothetical situation that might be encountered by a first-time tank buyer doing an internet search --rather than a personal anecdote. :)
 
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