Redundancy Heater Programming

[homer1475]

No, this would be not good. Think through the sequence of events. Your inkbird/heater fails and shuts off. Now the backup heater turns on. And then stays on until you notice the problem.

The code would work, and not cook your tank because it would evaluate the temp statements last.

Fallback off
set off
if output INKBIRD = off then on
if temp > 78.3 off
if temp < 76. 0 then on

Again as you stated "top to bottom", the apex would evaluate the output statement first and leave the outlet off if INKBIRD was on. If INKBIRD was off it would turn the outlet on, then evaluate the temp statements to turn the heater on or off. The temp statements at the bottom would never be evaluated if the OUTPUT statement was not met since the INKBIRD statement is first, also with the set command, the outlet would always be off unless INKBIRD was off.

At least that is my understanding of apex logic and how I would program the outlet. I would probably use a virtual as you suggested, but whats been posted is quick and dirty code.

FWIW, I use virtual outlets for all my alarm situations. That way when you get an email/txt of an alarm you have an idea of what the alarm is for instead of just a general alarm code.

The reference manual is a great place to start, but as stated quite a bit of it is out dated, and the neptune forums is also a great place to learn some coding. It really is basic coding once you understand it.

 

[Jason Roth]

The VO is used in conjunction with the other outlet coding right? I just have to add the VO and associated coding for it? I don’t delete the other when using a VO.

And thanks @rkpetersen. I forgot about selecting advanced. I did that for the others and just forgot. I need to read back through this post. I forgot about the SET line and what its for.

 

[homer1475]

Yes

The VO is used in conjunction with another outlet. A VO is just that, a "make believe" outlet that doesn't "physically" exist.

 

[homer1475]

For instance in my email alarm code I use all virtual outlets. Small example is the alarm code for a low level in my ATO reservoir.


Alarm code for the VO(The VO is named ATO_Alarm):
If SW3 OPEN Then ON (SW3 is a switch on the breakout box that my float is connected to)

Then in the actual alarm outlet I program this:
If Output ATO_alarm = ON Then ON

 

[Jason Roth]

For instance in my email alarm code I use all virtual outlets. Small example is the alarm code for a low level in my ATO reservoir.

Alarm code for the VO(The VO is named ATO_Alarm):
If SW3 OPEN Then ON (SW3 is a switch on the breakout box that my float is connected to)

Then in the actual alarm outlet I program this:
If Output ATO_alarm = ON Then ON

Ok cool thanks. It’s all just referencing the names of the other outlets kind of like I do for the heaters but with VO.

I have the Apex leak detection with 4 sensors. So I’m searching now to figure out that programming for my return pump to turn off because I can’t just do

If Output LeakDetect = On Then Off

Cause that LeakDetect outlet should always be on. Lol. Fun times learning.

 

[homer1475]

While I'll admit I do not own the Apex leak detectors, do they not create virtual outlets for each sensor when you plug the unit in? Similar to the DOS when connected.

Sorry I am not familiar with the module, but just googling a bit, it should have added 4 switches(similar to break out box switches) to fusion. Unlock the tiles by clicking the lock icon, then look for new tiles. Each sensor should have its own switch. Figure out which one is which, then program your physical EB8 outlet for the return pump to shutoff if that sensor is tripped.

Something like:
If swx1 open then off (swx1 should be the name of a switch the module adds)

 

[Jason Roth]

While I'll admit I do not own the Apex leak detectors, do they not create virtual outlets for each sensor when you plug the unit in? Similar to the DOS when connected.

Sorry I am not familiar with the module, but just googling a bit, it should have added 4 switches(similar to break out box switches) to fusion. Unlock the tiles by clicking the lock icon, then look for new tiles. Each sensor should have its own switch. Figure out which one is which, then program your physical EB8 outlet for the return pump to shutoff if that sensor is tripped.

Something like:
If swx1 open then off (swx1 should be the name of a switch the module adds)

I don’t know yet. I’m doing one piece of equipment at a time. Next will be the leak detectors. Was just trying to research first. So I’ll find out when I plug them in.

 

[Jason Roth]

Ok @rkpetersen and @homer1475 looks like it worked, kinda. Pulled up fusion before bed and noticed on the bottom of the dashboard the watt/amp/volt. Decided to tap it and it expanded what each outlet was using. Thought that’s cool. Then saw my backup heater was reporting wattage. I’m like what the heck? Looked at temp and definitely seemed more consistent compared to the inkbird controller since it is in 1* increments and apex is .1 increments. Figured I’ll look into it today and post.

This morning looked and saw the inkbird off and outlet off on the EB. I was like why? Unplugged and plugged into wall and it still works so plugged back into EB. Quick glance at log and saw nothing over the 81 to shut it off. Then saw max was over 81. Zoomed into log and found where it did peak yesterday. Sweet it worked. But ****, no text alert. what the heck.

Scroll down the dashboard and I had turned the alert off and never turned it back on. . Lol. So that’s back on. But now how do I get the other outlet back on for the inkbird and backupheater outlet off? Is that more coding or do I just manually do it on the dashboard and then switch both back to auto?

Then I need to figure out why it spiked....which just looked at the time and it was right when I was doing my first water change for the tank cycle period. So heater was on but no flow and they are oversized heaters and kicked that sump temp up quick. No audible alarm though from base so I need to check that and look into setting up the VO’s as well

 

[homer1475]

Show me both heater programs(the advanced tab), and the alarm program, and ay VO associated with them. We can figure this out, Apex programming is pretty basic.

I see you have the "new" apex, I have the "old" apex and some programming is different.

FYI, outlets have to remain in the AUTO mode for any of them to reset or send out alerts. I see your Temp Alarm is set to "OFF".

 

[Jason Roth]

Show me both heater programs(the advanced tab), and the alarm program, and ay VO associated with them. We can figure this out, Apex programming is pretty basic.

I see you have the "new" apex, I have the "old" apex and some programming is different.

FYI, outlets have to remain in the AUTO mode for any of them to reset or send out alerts. I see your Temp Alarm is set to "OFF".

Yeah that was stupid me. I turned it back on this morning. I turned it off because the programming wasn’t setup yet and I was getting alerts like crazy. So I tried turning the backuphrater outlet off and the inkbird on. Then turned both to auto. Just looked back and see the inkbird outlet is back off and backup is on(both in auto mode). Not sure why it did that. I looked and no spikes this morning to cause that. Showing you the spike from yesterday then today’s log.

Then both programs for the heater outlets. Then the outlet alarm and probe alarm. I do not have any virtual outlets setup yet. Should I use those and setup alarms for those instead of these outlets?

 

[Jason Roth]

Lol. That last pic the backup just shut off cause of reaching temp. Another shot here

 

[homer1475]

Ok well to start off with your outlet coding is right, with the exception of needing a "set" command for the INKBIRD outlet.

Use a set on statement in your inkbird programming. That will turn the outlet back on when temps fall.
Fallback on
set on
if temp > 80.9 then off Remember that if you want it to turn off at 81, you set it a bit lower because it will remain on until it hits 81.1. Because if temp is 81, its not greater then 81.

Then in your alarm code you have it set for 82, your temps never got that high(remember this now has to get to 81.1 for it to come on).

Sorry as I have the "old" apex and do not have the alarm feature in my outlet programming for a heater so I have no idea how that works.

 

[Jason Roth]

Ok well to start off with your outlet coding is right, with the exception of needing a "set" command for the INKBIRD outlet.

Use a set on statement in your inkbird programming. That will turn the outlet back on when temps fall.
Fallback on
set on
if temp > 80.9 then off Remember that if you want it to turn off at 81, you set it a bit lower because it will remain on until it hits 81.1. Because if temp is 81, its not greater then 81.

Then in your alarm code you have it set for 82, your temps never got that high(remember this now has to get to 81.1 for it to come on).

Sorry as I have the "old" apex and do not have the alarm feature in my outlet programming for a heater so I have no idea how that works.

Thank you. Updated and the switch worked and now inkbird is back on. Adjusted alert settings as well. Will see how this goes

 

[homer1475]

You can always sort of test it. Just turn the INKBIRD outlet off, and see if the other outlet turns on. Then watch your tank temp, if it stays steady and the outlet turn off and on like it should, turn the INKBIRD back on and see if it turns off and remains off.

This wont guarantee it will work, but it will tell you if the backup programming is correct.

 

[Jason Roth]

Yeah I’ve been thinking of different ways to test.

 

[rkpetersen]

I have the Apex leak detection with 4 sensors. So I’m searching now to figure out that programming for my return pump to turn off because I can’t just do

If Output LeakDetect = On Then Off

Right, you have to create the proper virtual output first, where you gather together all the leak detector switch inputs. In my case, it's:

If LeakCF CLOSED Then ON
If LeakLB CLOSED Then ON
If LeakRB CLOSED Then ON
If LeakS1 CLOSED Then ON
If LeakS2 CLOSED Then ON
If LeakS3 CLOSED Then ON
Defer 000:05 Then ON

But now how do I get the other outlet back on for the inkbird and backupheater outlet off? Is that more coding or do I just manually do it on the dashboard and then switch both back to auto?

Turn the Inkbird output to ON for a few seconds, then back to AUTO. Make sure the change 'takes'.

Turn the backup heater output to OFF for a few seconds, and then back to AUTO.

Also homer1475 makes a good point - all new programming should always be tested as much as possible before being let loose on its own. Unfortunately the Apex doesn't have a 'safe test mode' so what this means in practice is just watching the code and its effects including manually testing outputs closely for however long until you're really satisfied that it's working completely as intended.

 

[homer1475]

To test your INKBIRD outlet, just set the temps a little lower and see if it shuts off and the other turns on. Set it for like 76 and see if it turns off, and the backup heater programming should kick in.

Just adjust the temps on the INKBIRD programming to test.

 

[homer1475]

Right, you have to create the proper virtual output first, where you gather together all the leak detector switch inputs. In my case, it's:

If LeakCF CLOSED Then ON
If LeakLB CLOSED Then ON
If LeakRB CLOSED Then ON
If LeakS1 CLOSED Then ON
If LeakS2 CLOSED Then ON
If LeakS3 CLOSED Then ON
Defer 000:05 Then ON

I dont have the newer apex or the FMM module, don't these automatically appear when you plug in the fmm and leak detectors? Like when you plug in the DOS it makes 2 virtual outlets for that device.

 

[rkpetersen]

Then I need to figure out why it spiked....which just looked at the time and it was right when I was doing my first water change for the tank cycle period. So heater was on but no flow and they are oversized heaters and kicked that sump temp up quick. No audible alarm though from base so I need to check that and look into setting up the VO’s as well

If you want, you can have your heaters turn off when the return pump is off. Just add the appropriate lines to your heater code:

If Output ReturnPump = OFF Then OFF

Also, the Apex doesn't have any self contained alarms, visual or audio. Neither the 2016 nor the EL. There is a programmable audible alarm that comes with the optional Apex Display unit. There are many reasons to have the display and I use them, but the alarm is pretty quiet and won't wake someone sleeping in the next room. However, the EB832 has 2 programmable 24VDC power ports, and it's easy enough to connect one of these to a very loud piezo buzzer which definitely will get your attention.

 

[rkpetersen]

I dont have the newer apex or the FMM module, don't these automatically appear when you plug in the fmm and leak detectors? Like when you plug in the DOS it makes 2 virtual outlets for that device.

Yes, the switches automatically appear on the dash. And you can reference them directly in code, if that works for the situation. I like gathering them all together with the same small defer. It also allows me to control and turn off the leak detection alarm even if the detector remains wet. However, for the text alarm and display alarm, I have the switches all listed separately, so I will know which leak detector went off and not just that one of them did.