Reef2Reef Pest algae challenge thread hydrogen peroxide
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Salty.Reefer
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Hey! Im dealing with the same algae that made it from my refugium to the display. Nothing I have done has helped very much. Were you able to solve this issue?
Davy Jones
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Yep, problem goes away when you dont care anymore. I just yank as much as i can out with every waterchange and just live with it. i got a new tank coming and none of this rock is going into that one so i decided against spending money to rid the problem. FWIW turbo snails have been doing a good job at keeping newer growth down but they will not rid the issue
Salty.Reefer
Well-Known Member
Nice! mine isn't too bad but it is annoying how it comes back every time and growing in-between my zoas. I want to pick up some snails soon but currently I do not trust any of my LFS to be fish parasite free.
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cyano-attack.394440/page-2#post-4766720
Nice update for 2018 team, a nice little cyano challenge and we’re getting some nice live time feedback for systemic dosing, nice way to evaluate system safety if people choose to dose the whole tank. We can track before, during and after system impacts there.
Nice update for 2018 team, a nice little cyano challenge and we’re getting some nice live time feedback for systemic dosing, nice way to evaluate system safety if people choose to dose the whole tank. We can track before, during and after system impacts there.
I read through this entire thread and did 2 test rocks with positive results but I have a few questions. 1) I have a rock with no corals but a bta on it how should i treat this rock out of the tank? 2) and I have another rock with 100-150 zoa polyps on it and I am slightly concerned and overly cautious with the zoas releasing toxins any precautions to take?
Thanks in advanced.
Thanks in advanced.
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
I never personally take any precautions when working with zoanthids, only proto and palythoids
but
recent news / xenia was claimed to transmit it (disagree) means take any reasonable medical precaution used to prevent disease transfer, that's the only way to be safe. the few times my kiddo helped out in fragging or water changes she was wearing at least gloves but we never did much past that, handled all types.
we like to manually scrape off the algae first, before any spot treatments so if you've done that part the only areas needing treatment should be on the rocks and not coral, you can use a mister bottle of sw to spray the anem so it wont dry, as you are running detailed cleaning of the rocks externally where possible
thanks tons for posting feel free to link any and all pics and after/before + challenges etc thanks for stopping in/ new fuel for us
B
*the zoanthids sure might have some topical anchored algae as their skin is known to take up and keep bits of substrate/sand etc
we list zoanthids as totally tolerant to peroxide, so light topical application then rinsing after, tweezing the tufts out vs rasping very carefully so as not to damage, all good for zo work
eye squirters!@ they can and have done that to me. eye protection is fair prediction need.
but
recent news / xenia was claimed to transmit it (disagree) means take any reasonable medical precaution used to prevent disease transfer, that's the only way to be safe. the few times my kiddo helped out in fragging or water changes she was wearing at least gloves but we never did much past that, handled all types.
we like to manually scrape off the algae first, before any spot treatments so if you've done that part the only areas needing treatment should be on the rocks and not coral, you can use a mister bottle of sw to spray the anem so it wont dry, as you are running detailed cleaning of the rocks externally where possible
thanks tons for posting feel free to link any and all pics and after/before + challenges etc thanks for stopping in/ new fuel for us
B
*the zoanthids sure might have some topical anchored algae as their skin is known to take up and keep bits of substrate/sand etc
we list zoanthids as totally tolerant to peroxide, so light topical application then rinsing after, tweezing the tufts out vs rasping very carefully so as not to damage, all good for zo work
eye squirters!@ they can and have done that to me. eye protection is fair prediction need.
Thanks for the reply. No one will be helping me do the work but I have 2 small dogs, my 4 year old son and my pregnant wife in the house to worry about. I will surely post some before and after shots as I move along the tank.
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
Based on those details if that were my home/given this extra 12 yrs of info and evolving stuff online that's a backyard job/the zoanthid part. Kudos for bringing safety into the forefront, its the newest and best info we have on the matter. Take no chances.
Basic aerosolization was my concern, Id like to link this in reference to help:
outside work will take care of any worst case aerosols, and after its put back together I cannot fathom any event in which a reef tank would be harmful running clean and normal. It's accurate to state a fair portion of reef tanks can contain m. marinum and other toxic marine bacteria/vibrio as an ongoing microbial risk. Usually not issue in non immunocompromised, makes arm length disposable gloves a valid reefing tool as using them is following basic medical protocol, an upgrade to nineties wing it, without going overboard I fully support basic medical cross contamination protocol in all reef surgery.
A small portion of common freshwater tanks contain crypto/giardia they're not totally free from risk either but that's now a much smaller percentage, such that I personally wouldn't have my kids wear gloves on freshwater work. Reef work, she sure did.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/another-palytoxin-story.398036/#post-4776078
Basic aerosolization was my concern, Id like to link this in reference to help:
outside work will take care of any worst case aerosols, and after its put back together I cannot fathom any event in which a reef tank would be harmful running clean and normal. It's accurate to state a fair portion of reef tanks can contain m. marinum and other toxic marine bacteria/vibrio as an ongoing microbial risk. Usually not issue in non immunocompromised, makes arm length disposable gloves a valid reefing tool as using them is following basic medical protocol, an upgrade to nineties wing it, without going overboard I fully support basic medical cross contamination protocol in all reef surgery.
A small portion of common freshwater tanks contain crypto/giardia they're not totally free from risk either but that's now a much smaller percentage, such that I personally wouldn't have my kids wear gloves on freshwater work. Reef work, she sure did.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/another-palytoxin-story.398036/#post-4776078
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Again I appreciate the reply. When it comes to the rock full of zoas I will for sure be working on it on the back deck and make sure everyone else is inside. Gloves and eye protection will be worn to protect myself.
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
Hey another biological segue Id like to look into is the cross tie between the sand rinse thread and this peroxide thread, I see these two threads as tied to each other
its my opinion that we have to clean a sandbed in order to turn around any invasion, even if the invasion isn't located there...the cloudiness feeds our invaders at some point
the cloudiness is why people have to dose nitrate and po4 removers or filter with them
we spend $ on offsets for cloudy sandbeds
sandbed clouding in moderation is marine snow. anything beyond minimal is marine waste is eutrophic fuel for invader takeover. most sandbeds contribute to, not decrease, tank bioload metabolic signatures.
*for sure we get bare bottom only invaders across the board, anything can land on a rock. But seeing as how 90s sandbed technique is still 90% our base hobby, we aren't out of the woods when one is present.
any sandbed here> curious
sand rinse thread-
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445
its my opinion that we have to clean a sandbed in order to turn around any invasion, even if the invasion isn't located there...the cloudiness feeds our invaders at some point
the cloudiness is why people have to dose nitrate and po4 removers or filter with them
we spend $ on offsets for cloudy sandbeds
sandbed clouding in moderation is marine snow. anything beyond minimal is marine waste is eutrophic fuel for invader takeover. most sandbeds contribute to, not decrease, tank bioload metabolic signatures.
*for sure we get bare bottom only invaders across the board, anything can land on a rock. But seeing as how 90s sandbed technique is still 90% our base hobby, we aren't out of the woods when one is present.
any sandbed here> curious
sand rinse thread-
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445
Hey Brandon here are the pics I can provide at the moment. I will update when I work on more rocks and have some results to post.
Here is a closeup of what I’m dealing with
In this pic the 2 rocks in the back left were done yesterday and are pearly white today and whatever algae was on them has turned white.
Here are some more shots of what I’m dealing with throughout the tank.
Here is a closeup of what I’m dealing with
In this pic the 2 rocks in the back left were done yesterday and are pearly white today and whatever algae was on them has turned white.
Here are some more shots of what I’m dealing with throughout the tank.
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
I have no clue as to what that is but wow and thanks tons for that pic detail its just laser clear.
That growth is officially deemed: the exact way a real reef looks when I dived them in the nineties, positioned on a real reef those look normal. We've become algae stigmatized somehow, substrate elitists heh
Reef surgery going on right there, mid application, all skip cycle work with sensitives in tow, really sharp.
It means I don't see your issue as a param issue, so we never ask for them. I like my rocks pure coralline and coral and no grazer food, to cheat to get there didn't bother me it's fun to just burn off invaders and watch the rocks comply, some meaner strains are evident on growback and need either stronger peroxide work (with care, más danger to kids w strong percentages, I use 35% myself which is nuc) or more rasping to pre dislodge before 3%
About 80% of unrasped tanks that simply did external treatment find low to no growback especially if the lights can be dimmed, and blued, sustained for a while vs the normal running mode
We're finding in my private messages tank works that bluing up lights and decreasing intensity s good bit still runs corals and lessens invader rebounds even in dinoflagellate challenges. Works well across invaders, my kessil runs full blue always it never harms my coral for sure though the constant blue room is moderately annoying now after about eight straight years. it doesn't matter what backsplash you pick out it's all the same color under Reef lights LOL
That growth is officially deemed: the exact way a real reef looks when I dived them in the nineties, positioned on a real reef those look normal. We've become algae stigmatized somehow, substrate elitists heh
Reef surgery going on right there, mid application, all skip cycle work with sensitives in tow, really sharp.
It means I don't see your issue as a param issue, so we never ask for them. I like my rocks pure coralline and coral and no grazer food, to cheat to get there didn't bother me it's fun to just burn off invaders and watch the rocks comply, some meaner strains are evident on growback and need either stronger peroxide work (with care, más danger to kids w strong percentages, I use 35% myself which is nuc) or more rasping to pre dislodge before 3%
About 80% of unrasped tanks that simply did external treatment find low to no growback especially if the lights can be dimmed, and blued, sustained for a while vs the normal running mode
We're finding in my private messages tank works that bluing up lights and decreasing intensity s good bit still runs corals and lessens invader rebounds even in dinoflagellate challenges. Works well across invaders, my kessil runs full blue always it never harms my coral for sure though the constant blue room is moderately annoying now after about eight straight years. it doesn't matter what backsplash you pick out it's all the same color under Reef lights LOL
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Lighting is part of my approach also. I’ve cut my full strength photo period from 8 hours to 5 hours and lengthened the ramp up and down times. I’ve also eliminated the red and green colors and went to a more blue spectrum.
JMM744
Valuable Member
Interested to see what everyone thinks. Running skimmer hard and wet. Chaeto is growing quite well. Phos. is 0 and no3 is .05. I dose vinegar for nitrates but they have really dropped since the fish came out. So have phosphates. Usually around 15 no3 and 5 for phos.
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
That's not a tough fix biologically actually, so glad to see that thanks for posting. The bare bottom is why, excellent. No filthy sandbed, rare for us.
I like to make predictions after seeing before pics
We can discern causatives from tank pics, not nutrient readings as a neat point. The cause of this invasion is very clear, so the inverse becomes the blueprint for the fix.
With pics we can check to see if the tank can pass a clouding test, this one cannot, to attain that state is core to curing this system. Dosing peroxide to water cannot fix a clouding test, so water dosing is 1/5th of the actual work needed for this tank.
A clouding test for reef tanks is twofold:
1. Is the tank under any imbalance or invasion
If so,
2. Can someone reach in the aquarium, grab rocks or sand, shake them hard underwater, and develop a cloud? That condition is keeper caused and not biological as a cause, and its keeper undone just the same (do a tank cleaning)
Pics show us bioloading, which isn't bad at all here.
They tell us if we have rooted anchored invaders, or blanketing ones, that type of ID is what matters above actual genus and species...
The fact the lysmata cleaner isn't dead is a statistical outlier, breed that one :) they're top sensitive animals to dosed peroxide. Some have survived indeed
This tank simply needs to be taken apart and cleaned manually. Put back together with not one cloud ability in place, all invaders pre rinsed outside the tank and zero invaders in the tank, all at once, due to a total external clean and complete water change. Peroxide isn't dosed to the water, that's a hands off mode which causes invasions bc dead mass rots internally and recycles life forms that dead mass selects for...eutrophic organisms, degredation organisms, oxygen sappers, the indicated method here is a full tank instant cleaning with skip cycle reassembly. If this tank isn't huge, that's how to actually fix it.
If it's too big to take apart, peroxide dosing should only be used when the tank was made clean and the invader was pre removed however that needs to be done.
It's fully ok to just dose peroxide non specific and chart what occurs, but that's polar opposite of what will fix the tank. Our thread at least uses one test rock per tank where absolute fix wasn't modeled and proven, can you run a test rock real quick, easy model, just so we keep that theme going
We are always able to learn something specific about a tank invader, before action, which will concentrate actions on the target and reduce actions on non targets. The correct order of operations in eutrophic aquarium restoration is some element of keeper multiplied physical work ten times above normal running conditions, it's never something we add to the water although if that's the desired method for this tank we can still make incremental headway. Very glad you posted this challenge
I like to make predictions after seeing before pics
We can discern causatives from tank pics, not nutrient readings as a neat point. The cause of this invasion is very clear, so the inverse becomes the blueprint for the fix.
With pics we can check to see if the tank can pass a clouding test, this one cannot, to attain that state is core to curing this system. Dosing peroxide to water cannot fix a clouding test, so water dosing is 1/5th of the actual work needed for this tank.
A clouding test for reef tanks is twofold:
1. Is the tank under any imbalance or invasion
If so,
2. Can someone reach in the aquarium, grab rocks or sand, shake them hard underwater, and develop a cloud? That condition is keeper caused and not biological as a cause, and its keeper undone just the same (do a tank cleaning)
Pics show us bioloading, which isn't bad at all here.
They tell us if we have rooted anchored invaders, or blanketing ones, that type of ID is what matters above actual genus and species...
The fact the lysmata cleaner isn't dead is a statistical outlier, breed that one :) they're top sensitive animals to dosed peroxide. Some have survived indeed
This tank simply needs to be taken apart and cleaned manually. Put back together with not one cloud ability in place, all invaders pre rinsed outside the tank and zero invaders in the tank, all at once, due to a total external clean and complete water change. Peroxide isn't dosed to the water, that's a hands off mode which causes invasions bc dead mass rots internally and recycles life forms that dead mass selects for...eutrophic organisms, degredation organisms, oxygen sappers, the indicated method here is a full tank instant cleaning with skip cycle reassembly. If this tank isn't huge, that's how to actually fix it.
If it's too big to take apart, peroxide dosing should only be used when the tank was made clean and the invader was pre removed however that needs to be done.
It's fully ok to just dose peroxide non specific and chart what occurs, but that's polar opposite of what will fix the tank. Our thread at least uses one test rock per tank where absolute fix wasn't modeled and proven, can you run a test rock real quick, easy model, just so we keep that theme going
We are always able to learn something specific about a tank invader, before action, which will concentrate actions on the target and reduce actions on non targets. The correct order of operations in eutrophic aquarium restoration is some element of keeper multiplied physical work ten times above normal running conditions, it's never something we add to the water although if that's the desired method for this tank we can still make incremental headway. Very glad you posted this challenge
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JMM744
Valuable Member
Ok, so take everything out and clean old loose junk, detritus etc... and put back together with water change? It’s a 70 with a large sump full of Chaeto.
To be honest, at this time , taking it apart seems too hard to do. It took us 4 hrs. to take it down and get all the fish out and put backing together. I can syphon the rocks and bottom and get fairly clean but. certainly not completely clean. I miss my old diatom filter! Sure made cleaning a system like this easier. Will do what I can. Also, will have to reread about the rock test to get up to date and do it.
Thanks, Jim
To be honest, at this time , taking it apart seems too hard to do. It took us 4 hrs. to take it down and get all the fish out and put backing together. I can syphon the rocks and bottom and get fairly clean but. certainly not completely clean. I miss my old diatom filter! Sure made cleaning a system like this easier. Will do what I can. Also, will have to reread about the rock test to get up to date and do it.
Thanks, Jim
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
How easy it is for someone with a reef that weighs fifteen pounds all up to offer the advice of "just rip clean it" to a normal reef / my perspective is both spoiled and skewed heh :)
we can brainstorm some easier lead ins possibly for your tank. Right now I'm doing a 55 g water change on my planted 55 g tank, a mere 20 under you guys', and as I get ready to drain and refill your tank comes to mind since it's larger/how we can conveniently access it all
IMO, capturing and holding water is merely a brute can and a third. It's the making $ of new water (im using easy tap for my planted tank w easy plants) that's a hassle for saltwater
So, as initial brainstorm how tricky is it if you turned off pumps and siphoned clean water to reuse about 75% down, then remove all rocks and coral, leaving only fish easily caught. Hold them in buckets sep from the rocks, massively important. They only go back together when it's all passing the clouding test in your cleaning buckets.
Clean the system, reassemble it all add back 75% old water and 25% new you don't want to reuse that last muddy mess from pulling the rocks.
I hate to hour long thread you :) but this is gold info, twenty tanks or more doing what you are about to do
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445
we can brainstorm some easier lead ins possibly for your tank. Right now I'm doing a 55 g water change on my planted 55 g tank, a mere 20 under you guys', and as I get ready to drain and refill your tank comes to mind since it's larger/how we can conveniently access it all
IMO, capturing and holding water is merely a brute can and a third. It's the making $ of new water (im using easy tap for my planted tank w easy plants) that's a hassle for saltwater
So, as initial brainstorm how tricky is it if you turned off pumps and siphoned clean water to reuse about 75% down, then remove all rocks and coral, leaving only fish easily caught. Hold them in buckets sep from the rocks, massively important. They only go back together when it's all passing the clouding test in your cleaning buckets.
Clean the system, reassemble it all add back 75% old water and 25% new you don't want to reuse that last muddy mess from pulling the rocks.
I hate to hour long thread you :) but this is gold info, twenty tanks or more doing what you are about to do
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445
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