Responsible Stewards- Don’t Let The Future Fish Size Prevent You From Getting The Fish You Want

[boacvh]

Really like your story but curious about the ending line “one thing I’ve learnt over the years is that fish let you know if they are unhappy.”

How do you know a fish is unhappy?

You can't tell? I mean, come on, does it look like I am smiling?

 

[PeterC99]

You can't tell? I mean, come on, does it look like I am smiling?

Could be a poker face?

 

[srcleary]

I love that this thread is continuing. As mentioned previously in this thread, I am an advocate of re-homing as the person who has the new home!

I was at the fish store this past weekend and they had a Hawaiian Dragon Eel that had to be re-homed. He grew up in a tank. The LFS owner told me why it had to be re-homed and I understood perfectly. And the Dragon will go perfect in my new 800g tank build! (See image below. I also posted on my build page.)

I was sharing about this thread with my wife (who is NOT excited about the Dragon BTW) but was in agreement that re-homing often works for the better.

Then I realized, not only am I re-homing the Dragon, but...

1. I probably will take the Scribbled Angel I posted an image of earlier in this post. He will be the center piece of the new tank. I learned he was tank raised since 4" big.

2. My German Shepherd is a former show dog and when he came off the circuit he ended up with the trainer who had too many dogs already. My wife and I adopted Jumber and he gets to live out his days happily running free on our small ranch. No more kennels!

3. We adopted another dog ,Cooper, a Carin Terrier. And older couple owned him and he was just too active for them. Maybe he was the wrong dog for an older couple but we took him in. The former owner calls us every few months to check up on him and we love him to death!

4. My son is also adopted. His mom was single and not in a position to raise a child. So we adopted him. Of course I am not advocating "re-homing children", but you get the idea.

5. After sharing this with my wife she reminded me that she is also re-homed. She was divorced and happily re-homed with me. LOL

So for me... I am a fan of "re-homing" LOL.

PS. While all the above is completely true, please understand I share in jest.

Steve

 

[PeterC99]

Steve - There are some special people that make this world a better place. YOU AND YOUR WIFE ARE TWO OF THEM!!! Thank you for sharing your incredible story!

Oh yea - and the Hawaiian Dragon Eel is just Awesome!

 

[srcleary]

Steve - There are some special people that make this world a better place. YOU AND YOUR WIFE ARE TWO OF THEM!!! Thank you for sharing your incredible story!

Oh yea - and the Hawaiian Dragon Eel is just Awesome!

LOL. Thanks so much!

 

[Jesterrace]

I see too many posts here discouraging Reefers from getting many fish because it will one day out grow your tank.

I disagree with that thinking. After tangs and copperbands got too big for my 34 gallon, I put my fish trap in the aquarium, caught them, and quickly sold them to other Reefers with larger aquariums. Now these reefers say call them first when I’m selling a fish.

I take very good care of my fish and knock on wood, haven’t lost many. I’m bringing that fish home from my local fish store (who knows their fates there?), providing a quality home, and if they ever get too large for my aquarium, I’ll sell them to the next Reefer. Isn’t this a big part of our hobby - the sustainability?

Enjoy your fish responsibly. Research your fish before buying and make good choices! But don’t let the possibilities of a fish outgrowing your aquarium keep you from providing a great home for a great fish today! Who knows, you might even buy a larger aquarium to keep your larger fish - I eventually did!

I think my biggest issue is that all too often I see folks recommending to newbies to go ahead and stick whatever fish they want in whatever size they want (My favorite was the guy bragging about keeping a Yellow Tang in his 22 gallon Hex tank with no issues). The problem is that they frequently omit the part where they will need to rehome the fish in the next year or two. To me this is worse than someone simply saying that the fish isn't well suited for their tank and honestly it's really bad advice for newbies IMHO. They also fail to mention that there is more to it then simply picking up a small fish and tossing it in your tank (ie having an upgrade plan, making sure your LFS will take the given fish when it gets to big or the simple fact that trapping/catching a fish doesn't always go as planned).

Obviously it's a bit different for an experienced fish keeper who might even have a tank already setup that they can move it into when it gets big enough, having an LFS that is willing to take it, you have a commitment to the hobby, etc. For this reason I say I don't support the "get rid of it when it gets too big" as good advice for the hobby as a whole, but it can be used by experienced fishkeepers who know what they are doing.

 

[Mark Bradley]

Really like your story but curious about the ending line “one thing I’ve learnt over the years is that fish let you know if they are unhappy.”

How do you know a fish is unhappy?

What I mean here is if a fish is acting out of the what would be expected I.e. is bullied, is hiding when you wouldn’t expect, lacking colour, not eating etc

 

[glency]

Noob here. What happens when the tang gets too big? Currently starting a 35G

 

[PeterC99]

Noob here. What happens when the tang gets too big? Currently starting a 35G

Great question!

I put my outgrown fish for sale on a Reefer site like R2R. If you price the fish fairly, you will have lots of interest.

To catch the fish and not disturb your aquarium, I recommend a fish trap. Simple to use and very effective.

Responsible Reefers!

 

[Rocketfish]

What I mean here is if a fish is acting out of the what would be expected I.e. is bullied, is hiding when you wouldn’t expect, lacking colour, not eating etc

Just a quick update on the Hippo and Powder Blue tangs in a 30 gallon reef... It has been nearly 4 weeks now. I had a concern about a week ago when I observed some discoloration on the PBT before the lights went out at night. It appeared to have what I would consider stress spots.

I discovered that the Hippo Tang was not sleeping in his normal spot and had caused the PBT to shift sleeping spots. Evidently I have been feeding enough more that the old sleeping spot for the hippo tang became uncomfortably tight. I rearranged the rocks a bit so he could easily fit in his old spot, and 24 hours later everyone is back to normal and looking good.

Again, I know I am living on the edge in this case so I have to watch for subtle signs to see if I can adjust some small thing to make an improvement. In this case it appeared to work, but I am not out of the woods yet.

I will consider this a grand success to make it 90 days without having to rehome a fish. I am already planning the upgrade, but it is still months away. I am just happy I have not seen any sign of Ick on the PBT after 26 days!

It appears their interaction is compatible and not physically aggressive. They will swim together at feeding time, and some at other times, but they each have their own favorite hang out spots where they don't have to stare at each other. It's more a close-proximity-avoidance than anything.

The hippo tang likes to free swim and interact with the viewer. The PBT is a grazer. It is always picking at the rocks eating small sprigs of algae. He only eats nori if it is so soggy its about to fall off the clip. He is just starting to see the red silicone feeding syringe tip as a food source now so instead of hiding, comes out to nibble the goodies right out of the tip.

More updates will follow.

 

[Schraufabagel]

What about a BTA or clam in a smaller tank? My thinking is that I would intend to upgrade tank size in 3 - 5 years

 

[Mark Bradley]

I like reading the forums for ideas and comments. However, in general, I have found that finding ‘one expert’ you value and using their knowledge has been successful for me. It seems if you ask 10 ‘experts’ you will get up to 10 different answers and I’ve also previously experienced some bad advice from people that deemed themselves ‘experts’. I have a LFS where the owner has kept marines for years, the display tanks are brilliant and, to date, he hasn’t pointed me in any wrong directions. I will look at differing views but generally discuss any difference of opinions, with my LFS, and then make my own call

 

[Lyss]

So, I think there can be valid reasons for someone to purchase juvenile fish and house them in a smaller tank until upgrade. I did this with my 3 dwarf FW puffers for two reasons: I had solid plans to upgrade my tank from a 5 gallon to a 10, and I wanted to introduce all 3 at the same time rather than 1 and then a few months later 2 more since they can be territorial. They came in really tiny and did great in the 5G w/many plants for a few months. Now they’re in the 10g. And I chose the peas b/c I wanted a puffer but knew I’m never going to have enough space for a larger one in my small apartment.

I’ve also advised others not to get puffer fish when they say up front they won’t be able to upgrade the tank as the fish matures. I just think that’s cruel and caring more about really wanting that fish than making sure it’s appropriately cared for.

Puffers are messy for one, but also intelligent — they need adequate space at any size otherwise they become depressed, glass surf, etc.

Another way of looking at it is that the OP’s way of thinking is why a lot of cats, dogs, and small mammals end up in shelters — ppl don’t think through the true cost of long-term care and make impulse purchases. To me, a pet is a pet for the entirety of their life, even if it’s just a fish.

 

[Coxey81]

I see too many posts here discouraging Reefers from getting many fish because it will one day out grow your tank.

I disagree with that thinking. After tangs and copperbands got too big for my 34 gallon, I put my fish trap in the aquarium, caught them, and quickly sold them to other Reefers with larger aquariums. Now these reefers say call them first when I’m selling a fish.

I take very good care of my fish and knock on wood, haven’t lost many. I’m bringing that fish home from my local fish store (who knows their fates there?), providing a quality home, and if they ever get too large for my aquarium, I’ll sell them to the next Reefer. Isn’t this a big part of our hobby - the sustainability?

Enjoy your fish responsibly. Research your fish before buying and make good choices! But don’t let the possibilities of a fish outgrowing your aquarium keep you from providing a great home for a great fish today! Who knows, you might even buy a larger aquarium to keep your larger fish - I eventually did!

Definitely agree, the used 40G breeder I purchased came with a young scopas tang an it is perfectly happy for now. I've already contacted my LFS and mentioned it on a local aquarium Facebook page and I will have ZER0 issue finding it a new home.

 

[Rocketfish]

What about a BTA or clam in a smaller tank? My thinking is that I would intend to upgrade tank size in 3 - 5 years

I think the same applies for these. The anemone will grow fast if conditions are right, the clam much slower. I have seen BTA's outgrow and over propagate in large tanks. Usually they are easy to sell to another reefer or a LFS.

Since the clam doesn't require swimming space its more about water quality and feeding.

 

[PeterC99]

Just a quick update on the Hippo and Powder Blue tangs in a 30 gallon reef... It has been nearly 4 weeks now. I had a concern about a week ago when I observed some discoloration on the PBT before the lights went out at night. It appeared to have what I would consider stress spots.

I discovered that the Hippo Tang was not sleeping in his normal spot and had caused the PBT to shift sleeping spots. Evidently I have been feeding enough more that the old sleeping spot for the hippo tang became uncomfortably tight. I rearranged the rocks a bit so he could easily fit in his old spot, and 24 hours later everyone is back to normal and looking good.

Again, I know I am living on the edge in this case so I have to watch for subtle signs to see if I can adjust some small thing to make an improvement. In this case it appeared to work, but I am not out of the woods yet.

I will consider this a grand success to make it 90 days without having to rehome a fish. I am already planning the upgrade, but it is still months away. I am just happy I have not seen any sign of Ick on the PBT after 26 days!

It appears their interaction is compatible and not physically aggressive. They will swim together at feeding time, and some at other times, but they each have their own favorite hang out spots where they don't have to stare at each other. It's more a close-proximity-avoidance than anything.

The hippo tang likes to free swim and interact with the viewer. The PBT is a grazer. It is always picking at the rocks eating small sprigs of algae. He only eats nori if it is so soggy its about to fall off the clip. He is just starting to see the red silicone feeding syringe tip as a food source now so instead of hiding, comes out to nibble the goodies right out of the tip.

More updates will follow.

@Rocketfish - very impressed at your going above and beyond to care for your saltwater fish!

Your dedication, husbandry, and hard work set the perfect example of “Responsible Stewards”!

Started this thread and really didn’t know what to expect. But I’m overwhelmed by many Refeer’s and their highest dedication to reefing responsibly!!!

 

[Koh23]

For me, usual "shelf life" of tank is 2-3 years, so far, after year,year and a half i always caught myself in thinking of bigger tank, so, if i buy small fish, until it overgrow tank size..... I have new, bigger tank.....

But in reality, any tank size is too small when compared to natural habitat, so, we only try to provide best living conditions in space we have.....

If for some reason i go from big to smaller tank, big, healty fish is no problem to sell or just replace for smaller...or even give someone as a gift.....

Of.course, i often get enotionaly attached, so i like to do little planning to avoid parting from my fishes.....

 

[PeterC99]

Definitely agree, the used 40G breeder I purchased came with a young scopas tang an it is perfectly happy for now. I've already contacted my LFS and mentioned it on a local aquarium Facebook page and I will have ZER0 issue finding it a new home.

Impressed that you are already thinking ahead!

You bring up another important point - sometimes we acquire full aquarium setups with their inhabitants from other Reefers. Choices (whether good or bad) are made for us in fish selections. But I see Reefers are genuinely interested in the well-being of their inhabitants and setup responsible plans for the future of those inhabitants!

 

[LiveFreeAndReef]

Ha. For some reason the scene pops into my head of Travolta and Jackson debating whether or not a pig has as much personality as a dog and therefore should or should not be fit for consumption. Can't remember exactly what conclusion they came to on that one...

Obviously quite a few people on a forum like this will disagree with me, but I would imagine for the vast majority of the world the answer is that a pet you can routinely touch and interact with is in a much higher class than those you simply toss food to survive.

This last sentence is a good example of why I wish fish were WAY more expensive. It's not a $600+ dog, so we'll treat a fish as a second class citizen? It's a living animal that depends on you for survival and should be treated accordingly. Maybe if we spend a little more $$ on our fish we'll treat them as well as they deserve to be treated!

 

[Coxey81]

Impressed that you are already thinking ahead!

You bring up another important point - sometimes we acquire full aquarium setups with their inhabitants from other Reefers. Choices (whether good or bad) are made for us in fish selections. But I see Reefers are genuinely interested in the well-being of their inhabitants and setup responsible plans for the future of those inhabitants!

Thanks, I knew when I got it I would eventually need to. Only have four fish including it currently that all came with the tank. We plan to start adding a few more next year and plan to rehome it sometime next year after adding a few more.