Royal Gramma possible disease?

[LukeSivyer45]

Hello everyone! This is my first post to R2R and sadly its not the best of ones I bought a Royal Gramma on Saturday and upon bringing it home I realised it had a sort of pinkish blotching affect on its head. Is this to be of any concern? I did a freshwater dip for 1 minute 30 yesterday however I didnt see anything “fall” off. If there was an issue would Aquacare Anti bacterial and marine Parazoryne work. INFORMATION ON MY TANK: oase styline 85 (20 gallons). 9 pounds of lr a wavemaker and surface skimmer. Parameters temp: 77 ammonia: 0 nitrate: 10 ph:8 kh: 8 Stocking: a pair of clowns, yellow clown goby, skunk cleaner shrimp, 2 turbo snails, sand sifting starfish and feather duster.My tank has been running 3 months no problem. If anyone can help that would be massively appreciated!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi, Welcome to Reef2Reef!

I'm not able to discern much of anything in the photos. There does seem to be some skin issues behind the eyes, but ahead of the dorsal fin, is that what you are describing? Is the fish still feeding well, is it showing any physical symptoms?

A one minute FW dip shouldn't be done, it needs to be a full five minutes, I only pull fish after three minutes if they are having a severe reaction. If it is flukes, they don't really start dropping off until around four minutes in. I'm not suggesting that you do another dip, just an observation.

I'm limited in my advice as I'm not familiar with many medications that you have in the UK. Do you know the active ingredients in the two medications you have? Would of warning - if the bottle doesn't list ingredients, you should consider not using it. Here in the US, there are a lot of "tonics" that hide their true ingredients, and many of them simply do not work.

Jay

 

[LukeSivyer45]

Hi, Welcome to Reef2Reef!

I'm not able to discern much of anything in the photos. There does seem to be some skin issues behind the eyes, but ahead of the dorsal fin, is that what you are describing? Is the fish still feeding well, is it showing any physical symptoms?

A one minute FW dip shouldn't be done, it needs to be a full five minutes, I only pull fish after three minutes if they are having a severe reaction. If it is flukes, they don't really start dropping off until around four minutes in. I'm not suggesting that you do another dip, just an observation.

I'm limited in my advice as I'm not familiar with many medications that you have in the UK. Do you know the active ingredients in the two medications you have? Would of warning - if the bottle doesn't list ingredients, you should consider not using it. Here in the US, there are a lot of "tonics" that hide their true ingredients, and many of them simply do not work.

Jay

The Gramma is active and its well, I only did a freshwater dip for 1 minute because I was nervous and it wasnt looking to good and yes its like the top of its head and infront of its dorsal fin. The ingredients in the anti bacterial are: Acriflavine, Aminoacridine and formaldehyde. For the Parazoryne it doesnt say anything which may mean that is the medication with no additives. My cleaner shrimp also seems to have an interest with only the gramma and no one else, could this link to anything? And also thank you so much for the reply!

 

[Sharkbait19]

That is what mine looked like about a week before death by velvet and flukes (yes, simultaneously). IMO, if you have a QT, I wouldn't consider it a bad thing to pull it to observe it.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The Gramma is active and its well, I only did a freshwater dip for 1 minute because I was nervous and it wasnt looking to good and yes its like the top of its head and infront of its dorsal fin. The ingredients in the anti bacterial are: Acriflavine, Aminoacridine and formaldehyde. For the Parazoryne it doesnt say anything which may mean that is the medication with no additives. My cleaner shrimp also seems to have an interest with only the gramma and no one else, could this link to anything? And also thank you so much for the reply!

Sometimes, fish with flukes will draw the attention of cleaner shrimp - does the gramma hold still to be cleaned?
That antibiotic might work in a quarantine tank, but I would be leery of it in your display. It is similar to our ruby reef product- that is considered reef safe, but that’s because they use a really low dose, which also isn’t as effective.
Jay

 

[LukeSivyer45]

Sometimes, fish with flukes will draw the attention of cleaner shrimp - does the gramma hold still to be cleaned?
That antibiotic might work in a quarantine tank, but I would be leery of it in your display. It is similar to our ruby reef product- that is considered reef safe, but that’s because they use a really low dose, which also isn’t as effective.
Jay

The Gramma will hold still for up to 5 seconds and then open his jaw and swim off slowly with the shrimp floating down.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

That sure makes me think it has gill flukes.....
Jay

 

[LukeSivyer45]

That sure makes me think it has gill flukes.....
Jay

Can you explain how gill flukes “works” by that I mean does it spread, can it kill my fish, ways of dealing with it. Would a freshwater dip be a good idea?

 

[Sharkbait19]

FW dips help relieve the fish of some parasites, but I don't know if I can say that dips alone would be enough. I think PraziPro takes care of flukes. I'd imagine that the PraziPro in combination with FW dips would produce the best results.

 

[LukeSivyer45]

FW dips help relieve the fish of some parasites, but I don't know if I can say that dips alone would be enough. I think PraziPro takes care of flukes. I'd imagine that the PraziPro in combination with FW dips would produce the best results.

I have found PraziPro in the UK, after using it how much percent wise should I do? Also before we can confirm gill flukes should i try take videos and photos over a course of a couple days?

 

[Sharkbait19]

I have found PraziPro in the UK, after using it how much percent wise should I do? Also before we can confirm gill flukes should i try take videos and photos over a course of a couple days?

The issue with waiting over the course of a few days is that things can go south quickly. Sometimes even if a fish shows the slightest symptoms, it's best to act fast while they're still breathing normally, swimming and eating. It boosts the chances of success. More videos and pics would help, though having kept royal grammas, I do understand how hard it can be to photograph them...
The treatment for PraziPro is 1 teaspoon per 20 US Gallons, so I think that is one per every 75 liters. It's always best to do so in a separate hospital tank, as it allows you to closely observe the results.

 

[LukeSivyer45]

The issue with waiting over the course of a few days is that things can go south quickly. Sometimes even if a fish shows the slightest symptoms, it's best to act fast while they're still breathing normally, swimming and eating. It boosts the chances of success. More videos and pics would help, though having kept royal grammas, I do understand how hard it can be to photograph them...
The treatment for PraziPro is 1 teaspoon per 20 US Gallons, so I think that is one per every 75 liters. It's always best to do so in a separate hospital tank, as it allows you to closely observe the results.

I understand that acting later is always bad however does gill flukes spread quickly because im on day 5 of him in the tank and there are no signs with the other fish. Unfortunately I dont have the money for a hospital tank

 

[LukeSivyer45]

So here are some more ive just taken sorry about the quality my camera seems not focus on it. If it helps its only the colouring on him no abnormal behaviour

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Can you explain how gill flukes “works” by that I mean does it spread, can it kill my fish, ways of dealing with it. Would a freshwater dip be a good idea?

These can spread to some other fish species, but nobody really knows which flukes infest which fish species. The FW dip is used to buy you some time, and if you have a microscope, you can examine the dip water afterwards to confirm their presence or absence. Because dips are not 100% effective, they need to be followed up with a praziquantel treatment.
Jay

 

[Sharkbait19]

So here are some more ive just taken sorry about the quality my camera seems not focus on it. If it helps its only the colouring on him no abnormal behaviour

Something definitely looks off there. It looks like the mucous coat is being affected by a parasite of some sorts.

 

[LukeSivyer45]

Something definitely looks off there. It looks like the mucous coat is being affected by a parasite of some sorts.

Do you think it may be related to stress?

 

[Sharkbait19]

I understand that acting later is always bad however does gill flukes spread quickly because im on day 5 of him in the tank and there are no signs with the other fish. Unfortunately I dont have the money for a hospital tank

I used to think the same thing, but hospital tanks are really cheap. They can be a $30 petsmart starter kit, a sterlite bin, anything really. And honestly, I learned the hard way once that losing every fish to a parasite is a lot more of a money loss than buying a hospital tank. I also feel better quarantining my new fish, knowing that there is no chance they're bringing anything bad into the tank.
Based on your pics, the royal gramma looks quite concerning. Mine looked identical, and when I waited too long, it died. After that it became a chain reaction with my other fish. It took all that loss for me to realize the importance of a QT tank. It may seem costly and unnecessary, but you won't have to experience any terrible loss of livestock.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Do you think it may be related to stress?

Maybe, but the discoloration is way too random to be stress. Typically stress would cause it to be completely flushed out in color, but when it's discolored patches, you can generally assume there's parasites going on. Especially with royal grammas, which tend to be wild-caught.

 

[LukeSivyer45]

Maybe, but the discoloration is way too random to be stress. Typically stress would make it completely flushed out in color, but when it's discolored patches, you can generally assume there's parasites going on. Especially with royal grammas, which tend to be wild-caught.

So as of right now this “parasite” is a complete unknown? Also do u think it would be wise to freshwater dip him for 5mins today or tomorrow? Im sorry for being annoying I overthink and get stressed because I want my pets to be healthy and thriving and would hate to have them in discomfort.

 

[Sharkbait19]

So as of right now this “parasite” is a complete unknown? Also do u think it would be wise to freshwater dip him for 5mins today or tomorrow? Im sorry for being annoying I overthink and get stressed because I want my pets to be healthy and thriving and would hate to have them in discomfort.

No problem! I've been in the same boat as you. Tank parasites are never easy, and it takes a while to get a good idea about each one. Thankfully, R2R has all the answers, and we're always here to help! That's how I learned these things, through time and experience, and the help of this forum.

I think a FW dip might help confirm if they're flukes or not. If nothing comes off, then I may begin to fear some more difficult and deadly parasites like velvet or brooklynella. However, seeing that you got the fish on Saturday, that would be strange, as those two parasites are fast acting.