Royal Gramma with unknown condition

Pth03001 · Mar 6, 2018

So we got a Royal Gramma on 02-04-18 and it has been in QT ever since (thank god). He came and immediately presented with symptoms of flukes (up at the top of the water, breathing heavy, began to get cloudy eyes, fin rot/deterioration). Started to treat for flukes with fresh water dips (2 of them) and had success. Link to the dips below. The dips were done at the same temp and pH and with fresh RO/DI water for 15 minutes without distress shown in the fish either time. After the dips we treated the tank with Paragard in the QT for 2 weeks and he started eating and did not have another outbreak. The only thing was that the Gramma had some discolored, foggy blotches on its body after this. The blotches looked like damaged scales and I believed I saw a few scales in the second freshwater bath.

Either way I came home from work today to find the Gramma's condition progressed to what you see in the images below. In the last two days the Gramma has stopped eating. That being said he did complete a full 3 course treatment of Dr. G's medicated food for internal parasites as a preventative. Currently the tank has 0 ammonia, temp is and has been stable at 76.5 and the salinity has been steady in the tank at 1.026 since we got the QT rolling. Weekly water changes have been completed and we are at a small loss to what this is. So you be the judge! Our next step may be adding into the tank either Kanaplez or Metroplex for the infection but still do not know for certain. Thanks again for the help.

HotRocks · Mar 6, 2018

Looks like he has Brook to me. @Humblefish @4FordFamily @Big G what do you all think. Once you have a diagnosis from these experts. You may need a different treatment plan. I don't think it's internal parasite from what I see.

Big G · Mar 6, 2018

+1 Brook. Poor fish.

Here's Humblefish's treatment advisory and link to the complete analysis with pictures of early and developed Brook for you to examine. Big fan of Ruby Reef Rally if you can get it. It has both antibiotic and antiseptic qualities. Highly recommend it.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/brooklynella.247938/#post-2913287

Brooklynella:

Symptoms – This is most often seen in clownfish, but it can afflict any fish. The fish’s skin will appear to be peeling or sloughing off, oftentimes causing excessive white mucous to form around the affected area(s).

Treatment options - Formalin or acriflavine bath, followed by additional baths (as needed - but give the fish a day to recuperate in-between baths). You can use formalin in a QT (at a much lower concentration than the bath), but great care must be taken to provide plenty of gas exchange as formalin will quickly deplete the water of oxygen. For this reason, doing baths is the safer option as the fish can be pulled from the formalin if showing signs of distress. Acriflavine is probably the better option for in-tank QT use.

The following products contain formalin: Formalin-MS (preferred), Quick Cure, Aquarium Solutions Ich-X, Kordon Rid-Ich Plus.

Acriflavine can be found in Acriflavine-MS (preferred) and Ruby Reef Rally.

Metronidazole (exs. Seachem MetroPlex, Metro-MS, Hikari Metro+) is considered an alternative treatment for brook. A freshwater dip may provide temporary relief if you are unable to locate any of the aforementioned medications right away. Some even claim total eradication of the disease is possible just by performing multiple FW dips on the fish.

4FordFamily · Mar 6, 2018

HotRocks said:
Looks like he has Brook to me. @Humblefish @4FordFamily @Big G what do you all think. Once you have a diagnosis from these experts. You may need a different treatment plan. I don't think it's internal parasite from what I see.

Big G said:
+1 Brook. Poor fish. Here's Humblefish's treatment advisory and link to the complete analysis with pictures of early and developed Brook for you to examine. Big fan of Ruby Reef Rally if you can get it. It has both antibiotic and antiseptic qualities. Highly recommend it.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/brooklynella.247938/#post-2913287

Brooklynella:

Symptoms – This is most often seen in clownfish, but it can afflict any fish. The fish’s skin will appear to be peeling or sloughing off, oftentimes causing excessive white mucous to form around the affected area(s).

Treatment options - Formalin or acriflavine bath, followed by additional baths (as needed - but give the fish a day to recuperate in-between baths). You can use formalin in a QT (at a much lower concentration than the bath), but great care must be taken to provide plenty of gas exchange as formalin will quickly deplete the water of oxygen. For this reason, doing baths is the safer option as the fish can be pulled from the formalin if showing signs of distress. Acriflavine is probably the better option for in-tank QT use.

The following products contain formalin: Formalin-MS (preferred), Quick Cure, Aquarium Solutions Ich-X, Kordon Rid-Ich Plus.

Acriflavine can be found in Acriflavine-MS (preferred) and Ruby Reef Rally.

Metronidazole (exs. Seachem MetroPlex, Metro-MS, Hikari Metro+) is considered an alternative treatment for brook. A freshwater dip may provide temporary relief if you are unable to locate any of the aforementioned medications right away. Some even claim total eradication of the disease is possible just by performing multiple FW dips on the fish.

Agree with the diagnosis and treatment options.

Humblefish · Mar 7, 2018

Looks very much like brook to me as well

Pth03001 · Mar 12, 2018

Good Morning everyone,

Thank you all so much for responding to the post about my sick fish. I regret to inform you all that he unfortunately did not make it through the QT process. Long story short I did not actually have formalin or metroplex on hand and I decided not to give a paraguard bath as he had just come off of a 2 week treatment of paraguard dosed directly into the QT tank. When I got home on Tuesday I checked in on the Gramma and he appeared to look the same skin/scale wise but had an increased rate of respiration. I decided to complete a freshwater bath for him to try and temporarily give him some relief so that on the next day I could go out to my LFS and grab the medication.

I completed bath (matching temp and pH and placing airstone in 1 hour prior to the dip) and the Gramma reacted like he had with flukes, pretty much on the bottom, on the side but not freaking out, darting around or gasping for air at the surface. I completed a 12 minute bath and returned him to the QT tank afterwards. He appeared to bounce back pretty well after the bath, taking only 10 or so minutes to reacclimate to the tank. This was towards the end of the day and I went to bed hopeful to start his treatment the next morning. The next day I woke up to find that he did not make it through the night.

Postmortem I looked at the Gramma closer up and it appeared as though whatever the issue was it had started to almost boar through his skin and into his flesh on the top of his head. I could see a grayish circle of flesh around the crown of his head and in the center of this crown there was a red mark. I also saw a lateral line running down the back of the Gramma along the top of his back which was white in color. Lastly I completed a pretty basic dissection and found nothing noticeably out of the ordinary for his internal organs. Everything appeared to be healthy looking (for all I know) and no worms were found in his stomach.

All of this being said I do really appreciate all the comments to this post and the help that you all were during the treatment for my Gramma. I now have formalin on hand for any other occasion of such an outbreak and will continue to do my research and refine my QT process. I really hope that my knowledge will increase over time and experience because it really sucks to lose a fish.