• For a Limited Time the R2R Partner Membership is NOW OPEN! Get some cool swag and chances to win part of over $20,000 in prizes! Click here for more details

Should I return it all and look elsewhere?

howme127

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 22, 2020
Messages
112
Reaction score
71
Location
Portland
Please refer to my build tread for pictures, but I’m really looking for some solid advice from the R2R members.

Story is I decided to get back into the game with a Waterbox Reef 70.2. There was a lot of good said about them and they seemed to offer a quality product. I went with them over my old choice off RedSea.

Placed the order and waited. It wasn’t long and the tank showed up, but with the wrong color cabinet. WB was able to communicate that to me before it got to me so I was expecting it. They shipped out the white cabinet separately which was lost and then found by FedEx (not WB fault). The cabinet finally shows well wrapped and decently clean.

I went to open it and everything was looking great until I got to the white outside panels. They were delaminating. I’m very familiar with these issues as I’m an engineer for architectural furniture, also It was located in 2 areas that wouldn’t be noticed so I sealed and moved on.

Once I started to build the cabinet I noticed the inserts for the leveling feet were too small for the holes drilled. They were barely catching and pretty much all 16 slipped by twisting the leveling feet in or just slid deeper in the whole drilled for the insert. This greatly concerned me being the math I did would put at least 65lbs per foot, at least that. Also I could put them in with 1 finger. I decided to finish it out to see how much would be on the insert and how much weight would be on the 1/4” nuts. Well all of the weight went on the nuts. Which is somewhat by design but at least 3 feet would just wobble on the nut since the bite of the insert was so poor.

I still went on because I was excited about this new/old venture and I wanted to collect the entire condition of the cabinet before I kicked it to the curb. As I went on I tried to push all the plastic inserts in that used the cam posts. They weren’t completely flush or recessed which would result in the boards not sitting flush next to each other. Instead would create 3/64” to 1/16” inch gaps when cams were completely tighten. My guess is the holes for those were not drilled deep enough because there was no way they would be recessed with pressure or with a block of wood and slight tapping with a hammer.

Still I continued and I did get a whole stand complete and honestly I was surprised just how sturdy it was with these flaws but I was only using my weight, ~200lbs and I knew there was a lot more that would have to go on it.

I put it in place and debated getting the tanks out for it. After a few days and after finding some help, and after sitting on it just to see how much it would give, I went for it and got the sump and tank out for the first time.

Sump came out and all looks good and then the heavy part, the display tank. It looked great, once again became excited about it and started to think if something had to be done I would reinforce the cabinet and redo the feet, although I didn’t like the price I was paying to have to fix someone else’s mistakes.

I put the tank on as if was most likely the safest place from getting scratched and kicked or anything else from my stuck at home family. The stand was quickly barred off because I was very unsure about the wobble of the stand with the weight of the tank. I posted and WB quickly chimed in saying they wanted to replace.

Now this is where WB started to redeem themselves to me. The quickness and clarity in which they started to communicate directly with me has been amazing. Which is the ONLY reason I debating this decision.

They shipped out a new cabinet and acknowledged they had a “bad batch” of cabinets. I was like “ok, they were quick and helpful and got me fixed up with a good one”.

As my tank is sitting in place I start to admire it and look over it more and really start to think I’ve made the right decision despite the issues, but then notice a decent deformation in the side of the tank’s wall. I don’t think it would have any structural issues but the money I’m paying to have this sort of tank that has glass meant to view your animals through has a fun house mirror look in a 3”x3” section of the right side. (Refer to the videos in build thread - it’s not easy to capture but very easy to see in person).

I asked on here and it seems most wouldn’t be that worried about it but I just want to add it to the mix.

The new cabinet came today and once again seemed very nicely considered and wrapped by WB, but once I opened to inspect there was delamination again, lots of blunt trauma to edges and corners, and plenty of overspray in the leveling feet inserts. This was all in the coated panels. The black laminated panels looked to have much better fitting of the plastic cam post inserts but were still plagued by the oversized holes for the leveling feet inserts. I did push and poke a little bit with my fingers but as you can see in the picture there’s little to no bite with the insert.

I’ve reached back out to them to see what they would like to do, but I also don’t know what I should do and am looking for some honest takes. I’ve gotten some from 2 of my friends, one of which has decided to look elsewhere for his tank purchase.

Once again refer to the build thread for images and videos of mentioned items above.

Link to build thread
 
Last edited:
Best reef aquarium LED lighting

FishingLovingSons

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
179
Reaction score
241
Location
Statesville
Please refer to my build tread for pictures, but I’m really looking for some solid advice from the R2R members.

Story is I decided to get back into the game with a Waterbox Reef 70.2. There was a lot of good said about them and they seemed to offer a quality product. I went with them over my old choice off RedSea.

Placed the order and waited. It wasn’t long and the tank showed up, but with the wrong color cabinet. WB was able to communicate that to me before it got to me so I was expecting it. They shipped out the white cabinet separately which was lost and then found by FedEx (not WB fault). The cabinet finally shows well wrapped and decently clean.

I went to open it and everything was looking great until I got to the white outside panels. They were delaminating. I’m very familiar with these issues as I’m an engineer for architectural furniture, also It was located in 2 areas that wouldn’t be noticed so I sealed and moved on.

Once I started to build the cabinet I noticed the inserts for the leveling feet were too small for the holes drilled. They were barely catching and pretty much all 16 slipped by twisting the leveling feet in or just slid deeper in the whole drilled for the insert. This greatly concerned me being the math I did would put at least 65lbs per foot, at least that. Also I could put them in with 1 finger. I decided to finish it out to see how much would be on the insert and how much weight would be on the 1/4” nuts. Well all of the weight went on the nuts. Which is somewhat by design but at least 3 feet would just wobble on the nut since the bite of the insert was so poor.

I still went on because I was excited about this new/old venture and I wanted to collect the entire condition of the cabinet before I kicked it to the curb. As I went on I tried to push all the plastic inserts in that used the cam posts. They weren’t completely flush or recessed which would result in the boards not sitting flush next to each other. Instead would create 3/64” to 1/16” inch gaps when cams were completely tighten. My guess is the holes for those were not drilled deep enough because there was no way they would be recessed with pressure or with a block of wood and slight tapping with a hammer.

Still I continued and I did get a whole stand complete and honestly I was surprised just how sturdy it was with these flaws but I was only using my weight, ~200lbs and I knew there was a lot more that would have to go on it.

I put it in place and debated getting the tanks out for it. After a few days and after finding some help, and after sitting on it just to see how much it would give, I went for it and got the sump and tank out for the first time.

Sump came out and all looks good and then the heavy part, the display tank. It looked great, once again became excited about it and started to think if something had to be done I would reinforce the cabinet and redo the feet, although I didn’t like the price I was paying to have to fix someone else’s mistakes.

I put the tank on as if was most likely the safest place from getting scratched and kicked or anything else from my stuck at home family. The stand was quickly barred off because I was very unsure about the wobble of the stand with the weight of the tank. I posted and WB quickly chimed in saying they wanted to replace.

Now this is where WB started to redeem themselves to me. The quickness and clarity in which they started to communicate directly with me has been amazing. Which is the ONLY reason I debating this decision.

They shipped out a new cabinet and acknowledged they had a “bad batch” of cabinets. I was like “ok, they were quick and helpful and got me fixed up with a good one”.

As my tank is sitting in place I start to admire it and look over it more and really start to think I’ve made the right decision despite the issues, but then notice a decent deformation in the side of the tank’s wall. I don’t think it would have any structural issues but the money I’m paying to have this sort of tank that has glass meant to view your animals through has a fun house mirror look in a 3”x3” section of the right side. (Refer to the videos in build thread - it’s not easy to capture but very easy to see in person).

I asked on here and it seems most wouldn’t be that worried about it but I just want to add it to the mix.

The new cabinet came today and once again seemed very nicely considered and wrapped by WB, but once I opened to inspect there was delamination again, lots of blunt trauma to edges and corners, and plenty of overspray in the leveling feet inserts. This was all in the coated panels. The black laminated panels looked to have much better fitting of the plastic cam post inserts but were still plagued by the oversized holes for the leveling feet inserts. I did push and poke a little bit with my fingers but as you can see in the picture there’s little to no bite with the insert.

I’ve reached back out to them to see what they would like to do, but I also don’t know what I should do and am looking for some honest takes. I’ve gotten some from 2 of my friends, one of which has decided to look elsewhere for his tank purchase.

Once again refer to the build thread for images and videos of mentioned items above.

Link to build thread
My honest opinion would be deciding if it will be a constant worry for you? You have done your due diligence to make sure your money/time/effort is placed into a system you trust. If you can think 3 or 6 months down the line, will you still be concerned with the stability? Sometimes peace of mind can be an extremely important factor; like the old saying "perception can be someone's reality".

I have never owned a WB but have heard good and bad reviews; but I think we all can say that about most manufactured products. Again, only my opinion, but I would hate to have that nagging concern there. Fix it to make me comfortable or send it back and try another.
 
OP
howme127

howme127

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 22, 2020
Messages
112
Reaction score
71
Location
Portland
My honest opinion would be deciding if it will be a constant worry for you? You have done your due diligence to make sure your money/time/effort is placed into a system you trust. If you can think 3 or 6 months down the line, will you still be concerned with the stability? Sometimes peace of mind can be an extremely important factor; like the old saying "perception can be someone's reality".

I have never owned a WB but have heard good and bad reviews; but I think we all can say that about most manufactured products. Again, only my opinion, but I would hate to have that nagging concern there. Fix it to make me comfortable or send it back and try another.
I could modify the first correctly colored cabinet myself in a way that would extremely stiff. But knowing that it is at least $400 of the cost of what WB is supplying makes me feel like I’m having to modify a $150 cabinet that I paid 200% more, at least of the parts, labor, and finishes. Then to throw the deformation in the glass on top. Yeah I just don’t know. Not feeling great.
 

SPitts6654

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
58
Reaction score
55
Location
Oviedo, FL
When you’re spending the kind of money they charge for these tanks, I wouldn’t accept anything less than perfect and they shouldn’t expect you to. I would say if you’re not concerned about issues down the road and they are going to make it right for you, keep it and ask for a discount.
 
OP
howme127

howme127

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 22, 2020
Messages
112
Reaction score
71
Location
Portland
When you’re spending the kind of money they charge for these tanks, I wouldn’t accept anything less than perfect and they shouldn’t expect you to. I would say if you’re not concerned about issues down the road and they are going to make it right for you, keep it and ask for a discount.
Well I’m definitely curious how @Waterbox Aquariums will handle this. Like I said I’ve been surprised and delighted with their customer service that I’ve experience so far but I didn’t think nor expect I’d be needing so much of it especially so soon.
 
Fragtacular Sale

FishingLovingSons

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
179
Reaction score
241
Location
Statesville
I did not go look at your build thread.

I feel your gut has given you the answer, and you are just looking for conformation to send it back.
I would go with your gut on this.
^This! Unless WB is willing to start over with full new setup they know (or should know as a business) that you will never be truly satisfied and won't shop them again. Make 10 customers happy, get a new customer. Make one customer mad and lose 10 customers. Sounds like you've made every attempt to see if they will correct the issue. If they do not then:

It's a refund for me
^This!
 
OP
howme127

howme127

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 22, 2020
Messages
112
Reaction score
71
Location
Portland
Well, all this was sent over to the WaterBox claims department this morning. I'm waiting to see what my options will be. WB Customer Service also responded to an email I sent them last night. They asked what they could do to help out and also mentioned to send all this to the claims department. They are also asking if there is any equipment that I might need as they might see if they could help me out that way.

To me, it's all about whatever I have as options from the claims department. From part of my email to customer service: "So far besides customer service, the products from WB have been subpar or at least are suffering from production issues, which is enough for me to consider the option of returning, if at all possible." Meaning, customer service has been stellar, but not the products.

We will see... Does anyone have recommendations of tanks that are similar in style and perceived quality (and actual quality)? I really like what WB presents in style and materials... I think they are suffering badly from production issues... which I know all go through at times.
 

kapnkush608

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 10, 2012
Messages
3,788
Reaction score
2,256
Location
Madison
Wb/red sea tanks remind me of ikea furniture. Sure they look nice but am I gonna put a half ton or more on one? Nah. Home made cookies are better than the tube of pillsbury imo. I would rather not have to constantly question whether a product is gonna fail.
 
Fragtacular Sale

K7BMG

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 13, 2018
Messages
1,778
Reaction score
1,660
I understand that the Cade aquariums have the ability to change the game so to speak as far as quality and features. They are now available here in the US.
The stands are aluminum t slot, and glass, the tanks are thicker and the silicone is also a class act.
I understand that Algae Barn is a US dealer.
 
OP
howme127

howme127

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 22, 2020
Messages
112
Reaction score
71
Location
Portland
Wb/red sea tanks remind me of ikea furniture. Sure they look nice but am I gonna put a half ton or more on one? Nah. Home made cookies are better than the tube of pillsbury imo. I would rather not have to constantly question whether a product is gonna fail.
960lbs if not 1100lbs for this setup, and yes I agree, but besides the cabinet, there's even deformation of the glass... pulling hair!
 

Betex

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 20, 2020
Messages
85
Reaction score
24
Well, all this was sent over to the WaterBox claims department this morning. I'm waiting to see what my options will be. WB Customer Service also responded to an email I sent them last night. They asked what they could do to help out and also mentioned to send all this to the claims department. They are also asking if there is any equipment that I might need as they might see if they could help me out that way.

To me, it's all about whatever I have as options from the claims department. From part of my email to customer service: "So far besides customer service, the products from WB have been subpar or at least are suffering from production issues, which is enough for me to consider the option of returning, if at all possible." Meaning, customer service has been stellar, but not the products.

We will see... Does anyone have recommendations of tanks that are similar in style and perceived quality (and actual quality)? I really like what WB presents in style and materials... I think they are suffering badly from production issues... which I know all go through at times.
That's pretty crappy to hear as I was looking at my upgrade and the 220 was on top of my list the other option although is a bit more expensive that I have debating is Crystal Dynamic as they have some amazing looking work and can make stands made of aluminum along with customizable front panels.

 

kapnkush608

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 10, 2012
Messages
3,788
Reaction score
2,256
Location
Madison
960lbs if not 1100lbs for this setup, and yes I agree, but besides the cabinet, there's even deformation of the glass... pulling hair!
Ikea quality too!! Lol, IDC how good the customer service is I just can't get behind cookie cutter tanks. Find some amish people and have them build you a stand, high quality and probably half the price.
 

kapnkush608

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 10, 2012
Messages
3,788
Reaction score
2,256
Location
Madison
I understand that the Cade aquariums have the ability to change the game so to speak as far as quality and features. They are now available here in the US.
The stands are aluminum t slot, and glass, the tanks are thicker and the silicone is also a class act.
I understand that Algae Barn is a US dealer.
Honestly the only one I've been impressed with but haven't seen one in person so can't say either way.
 
https://www.omegasea.net/
OP
howme127

howme127

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 22, 2020
Messages
112
Reaction score
71
Location
Portland
Ikea quality too!! Lol, IDC how good the customer service is I just can't get behind cookie cutter tanks. Find some amish people and have them build you a stand, high quality and probably half the price.
I would have approached from the beginning building my own, as I engineer and build architectural furniture and installations that have to be shipped all over... But I didn't see it as an option to purchase the system without the stand.
 

K7BMG

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 13, 2018
Messages
1,778
Reaction score
1,660
Honestly the only one I've been impressed with but haven't seen one in person so can't say either way.
I agree as I have never laid a hand or an eye on one.
But so far it seems they get a lot of thumbs up.
 

K7BMG

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 13, 2018
Messages
1,778
Reaction score
1,660
I would have approached from the beginning building my own, as I engineer and build architectural furniture and installations that have to be shipped all over... But I didn't see it as an option to purchase the system without the stand.
Plus the fact that most tank manufacturers get ify with the warrantee on owner built or provided stands.
 

K7BMG

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 13, 2018
Messages
1,778
Reaction score
1,660
I understand that the Cade aquariums have the ability to change the game so to speak as far as quality and features. They are now available here in the US.
The stands are aluminum t slot, and glass, the tanks are thicker and the silicone is also a class act.
I understand that Algae Barn is a US dealer.

Ha ha quoting my own post, really, ya really.

Cade is designed in Australia but made in China FYI.
 
OP
howme127

howme127

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 22, 2020
Messages
112
Reaction score
71
Location
Portland
So... don't tell work, but I blew it off to do some investigative work on only the leveling foot situation on WB's cabinets they've sent me. Which would be 2 of the 3 they sent.

They have 3/8" holes edge drilled into the ply (already lose points to me for that) and I mic'd it with a calibrated Mitutoyo Absolute AOS Digimatic (aka very good) and got .3750, like bang on 3/8".

SO in short 3/8" hole

Now for the barbed threaded insert to be used in the hole. The barbs are tapered meaning the widest is at the face of the insert, or what you would see if you look at it installed. It mic'd at .3865". A hole size of .3750 and an insert with its MAX points at .3865" gives you .00575" bite on either side of that hole. Also my math puts roughly 65.7lbs per foot (average weight of a stocked tank my size) per foot. So all that weight is resting on that tiny shoulder.

SO in short you have 0.00575" bit with the insert. That's less than 3/512"!

Here's what it looks like in the hole:
IMG_6236.jpeg


and EASY removed from the hole (AND you can see exactly how little it is grabbing by the indents):
IMG_6237.jpeg


All the leveling feet holes and hardware are this way on the 2 cabinets I have received so far.

So you might ask, how is the weight being held? Since the leveling foot hole is 3/8" in diameter and is drilled .8000" deep, when you put the leveling foot in and apply very little pressure it will just do this:
IMG_6238.jpeg
IMG_6239.jpeg


So you have to use the hex nut, which does all the work, but at it's max points you are at a diameter of 0.4395". So that minus the hole size, since we know the insert is doing little to nothing unless it kinks in the hole, is only 1/32" on either side of the hole. That is the contact you get from the metal of the hex nut to the plywood panel. That is the contact you have transferring all the weight of your tank.

Here's the guy doing all the work:
IMG_6240.jpeg
IMG_6241.jpeg



Now all this is being said not because I'm mad at WB, matter of fact they have been extremely awesome with trying to figure this out. I'm saying this because if this is the case with others I completely get why you are having your "tank settle" after you put water in it. It might and may be fine in the long run, but that's just too close in math for my comfort and wouldn't fly where I work.

If this 4th cabinet comes in the same condition I'm documenting all of this for WB to hopefully help them overcome this oversight. This doesn't even get to the leveling feet. With 1/4-20 threads and the sheer size of the foot I see how it would be able to top a safe weight limit of over 50lbs. 50lbs per foot is the most I would rate or see it being rated. So with a avg calculated weight per foot with the 70.2 being 67.5lbs they are being pushed to there max, in my opinion.

Take this with a grain of salt, but If you are in the same boat I'd recommend replacing with this:
Properly sized inserts

And maybe even this as well:
Leveling feet with 250lb weight limit

Now I know that weight limit is overkill, but out of the overall length of the 3/8" hole (0.8000”) and the width of the foot and whatnot, that's is just the best match... there's not like an 80lb limit that meets all other requirements.

Also, I've not tested this yet.
 
Last edited:

How often do you have some type of algae issue?

  • Constantly Something

    Votes: 242 42.3%
  • Every Month

    Votes: 32 5.6%
  • Every Few Months

    Votes: 69 12.1%
  • A Few Times A Year

    Votes: 82 14.3%
  • Once A Year Or So

    Votes: 60 10.5%
  • Every Few years

    Votes: 29 5.1%
  • Never.....(are you lying?)

    Votes: 38 6.6%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 20 3.5%

Online statistics

Members online
2,212
Guests online
5,299
Total visitors
7,511
Emerald Reef Supply
Top