Sicce syncra 2.0 or Jebao dc6000??

[mcarroll]

Find a way to upgrade the plumbing to one inch to get a boost, but it should should not be necessary.

I doubt you'll ever need more flow, but if you do, a plumbing upgrade would be worth it.

In fact, upgrading to 1.5" plumbing for the return seems extreme, but it would completely eliminate friction loss, thus reducing headloss to the absolute minimum possible, which may be about 4'. (Measure your system.) This would be especially worth it before deciding on a pump upgrade, if that was something to be decided.

 

[Brew12]

Get a sicce! I just got one and it is amazing you can't hear it at all! Plus sicce as a 5 year guarantee!

Didn't know that! Always like a stout warranty. :)

To the best of my knowledge, Sicce makes the cheapest aquarium pumps you can get that aren't made in China. I am fairly confident that even the motors are made in Italy. Might explain why they can get away with such a good warranty.

 

[mcarroll]

Nice work! Personally, I would want a little more than 3.5x tank volume for turnover but I do agree it is fine to start with and can always be upgraded later.

I'm sure it's only coincidence, but most "properly oversized" skimmers seem to hit this flow range. (There used to be more skimmer manufacturers that published that info.) That is what mainly makes the 2x-4x range work for me. It works, and since the skimmer is working within a closed system, any flow within that "high" or "low" range of flow through the sump seems fine.

For example, my Tunze 9410 has a nominal 265 gallon rating and a water flow rate of 238 gallons per hour. They have a range of "spec" tanks that they give you to tune that nominal rating for your situation:
https://www.tunze.com/US/en/catalogue/katalog-ii.html?user_tunzeprod_pi1[predid]=-infoxunter027

As a result, they recommend the 9410 for tanks ranging from "up to 80" gallons (for ULNS/SPS) to "up to 265" gallons (for leather/lagoon tanks).
[skimmer flow rate]/80 gives you about 3x turnover, for an overall range of 1x-3x your display for this skimmer.

If you're matching your return roughly to your skimmer flow by these reasonable-seeming guidelines, 3x surprisingly seems pretty extreme.

4x is really "over extra".

5x borders on wastefulness in most scenarios (since a bigger pump always uses more power)....and sometimes even causes unnecessary "problems" with bubbles or noise.

As far as pipes gunking up over time as an excuse for over-sizing, Quiet One actually figures this into their pump ratings already....seems like Sicce may as well. ;)

2x - 4x is actually a pretty generous flow range.

Off the top of my head, I think most sump gear (reactors, skimmers, ...) that requires flow fits this range.

(Also coincidentally, it's the same number I used on my freshwater sumps back in the day....but I never heard a rationale for it back then. ;) )

Since we collectively stopped relying on the sump pump for display-flow, we rarely need big return pumps.

Yet I never ever see anyone start off with a return pump that's too small......"bigger is better" seems to be a little hardwired into us on this topic. ;)

 

[ksed]

Take a look at the Fluval Sea SP 2 pump. I don't know if that's to much for your application. You can always use a ball valve and throttle it back a bit. It doesn't have much pressure so it may work. It will be a quieter pump than the Sicce.

http://www.marinedepot.com/Fluval_S...quarium_Pumps-Fluval-HG14335-FIWPSBFT-vi.html

 

[mcarroll]

Looks like it'd be about right if the assumptions I listed stand true. :)

What's the story on the Fluval? I do like Fluval gear in general, but I've never heard of anyone using these pumps, so how do we know they are good? ($150 good?)

(Who makes them seems an obvious question too.)

 

[Brew12]

I'm sure it's only coincidence, but most "properly oversized" skimmers seem to hit this flow range. (There used to be more skimmer manufacturers that published that info.) That is what mainly makes the 2x-4x range work for me. It works, and since the skimmer is working within a closed system, any flow within that "high" or "low" range of flow through the sump seems fine.

I've seen so much debate on this it makes my head hurt. I see more bad arguments made on this and it drives me crazy. My next system is going to be skimmerless. :confused: Ok, probably not.

5x borders on wastefulness in most scenarios (since a bigger pump always uses more power)....and sometimes even causes unnecessary "problems" with bubbles or noise.

I found the 5x rate to be a nice compromise between getting my cheato to tumble a little without being too noisy in my sump. I think you can have a fine system with 0.5x rate or 15x rate as long as you understand how to make what you have work.

 

[nervousmonkey]

I think you can have a fine system with 0.5x rate or 15x rate as long as you understand how to make what you have work.

Very true. They can all work, just have to understand the dynamics of what one is doing.

 

[mcarroll]

I've seen so much debate on this it makes my head hurt. I see more bad arguments made on this and it drives me crazy. My next system is going to be skimmerless. :confused: Ok, probably not.



I found the 5x rate to be a nice compromise between getting my cheato to tumble a little without being too noisy in my sump. I think you can have a fine system with 0.5x rate or 15x rate as long as you understand how to make what you have work.

It's certainly not a religious issue.....just experience of dealing with the practical side-effects.

I just choose to avoid the side-effects since it's eminently possible. Circumstances, like basement sumps, sometimes dictate a different course. :)

Hypothetically speaking, I'd use a powerhead or another trick to get your chaeto tumbling vs goosing the return pump. (deflector on the sump drain flow, extra mini-powerhead, etc)

 

[ksed]

Looks like it'd be about right if the assumptions I listed stand true. :)

What's the story on the Fluval? I do like Fluval gear in general, but I've never heard of anyone using these pumps, so how do we know they are good? ($150 good?)

(Who makes them seems an obvious question too.)

A skill is the motor block manufacturer. The make all sorts of motors heating recirc. pump, laundry, dishwasher on and on.
Manufactured in Italy. These are the same pump R/E or Bubble King use on their non DC pumps. By far the quietest A/C pump on the market. As with many European manufacturers, they suffer marketing skills.
If you've never tried or heard one, I will guarantee you will like the pump and wondered why you didn't know about it earlier.

 

[gus6464]

Fluval SP2 is your better bet. Tons of head pressure and pretty quiet. Askoll motor as well so it's built to last. Made in Italy with 3 year warranty.