Sick Redtoothed Trigger

[monster27]

Looking for advice. I have a 10 yr old Redtoothed Trigger that has been in my 90 gallon tank for around 3 years. After we got back from a week long vacation, his eye looked like it had a bubble, which I'm thinking might be popeye. At the time, he had no other symptoms and was acting normal/eating well so I thought it might have been an injury. After around a week it looked like the swelling was going down, but last Thursday he took a major turn for the worse... Lethargic, wouldn't eat and would wedge himself in the sand by a rock and not move. Did an emergency water change Friday night, nitrates were <20 and no sign of ammonia. Salinity is 1.025. On Saturday I finally moved him to a hospital tank and started treating with Kanaplex (just finished 3rd dose today). He looks like he has a white spot on him and some of his fins are discolored and frayed, and his teeth aren't red anymore. Are there any other treatments that would be worth trying with the kana? I haven't noticed any stringy poops or anything that would suggest internal parasites, but I did read that Kanaplex and Metroplex can be used together. Based on the lifespans that they can live, I was hoping he'd live for at least another 5 years. Live pods and ghost shrimp are on the way to try and entice him to eat, but he hasn't gone for the few live amphipods that I did put in there. Any help would be greatly appreciated, I really want him to pull through.
Added a video, but he's moving very little so not sure if it's helpful.

 

[kennethgatman]

Looking for advice. I have a 10 yr old Redtoothed Trigger that has been in my 90 gallon tank for around 3 years. After we got back from a week long vacation, his eye looked like it had a bubble, which I'm thinking might be popeye. At the time, he had no other symptoms and was acting normal/eating well so I thought it might have been an injury. After around a week it looked like the swelling was going down, but last Thursday he took a major turn for the worse... Lethargic, wouldn't eat and would wedge himself in the sand by a rock and not move. Did an emergency water change Friday night, nitrates were <20 and no sign of ammonia. Salinity is 1.025. On Saturday I finally moved him to a hospital tank and started treating with Kanaplex (just finished 3rd dose today). He looks like he has a white spot on him and some of his fins are discolored and frayed, and his teeth aren't red anymore. Are there any other treatments that would be worth trying with the kana? I haven't noticed any stringy poops or anything that would suggest internal parasites, but I did read that Kanaplex and Metroplex can be used together. Based on the lifespans that they can live, I was hoping he'd live for at least another 5 years. Live pods and ghost shrimp are on the way to try and entice him to eat, but he hasn't gone for the few live amphipods that I did put in there. Any help would be greatly appreciated, I really want him to pull through.
Added a video, but he's moving very little so not sure if it's helpful.


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Hello, Yes, Kanaplex and Metroplex are safe to use together, and Seachem actually recommends this combo for serious infections where you’re not sure if it’s bacterial or protozoan. If he starts eating again, mix Kanaplex + Metroplex + Focus into food to target internal infections directly. This is much more effective than dosing the water alone.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Giving you a bump here, for someone who may know. At 10 years old, hopefully it's not part of a decline-in-life stage. Wishing you the best.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Looking for advice. I have a 10 yr old Redtoothed Trigger that has been in my 90 gallon tank for around 3 years. After we got back from a week long vacation, his eye looked like it had a bubble, which I'm thinking might be popeye. At the time, he had no other symptoms and was acting normal/eating well so I thought it might have been an injury. After around a week it looked like the swelling was going down, but last Thursday he took a major turn for the worse... Lethargic, wouldn't eat and would wedge himself in the sand by a rock and not move. Did an emergency water change Friday night, nitrates were <20 and no sign of ammonia. Salinity is 1.025. On Saturday I finally moved him to a hospital tank and started treating with Kanaplex (just finished 3rd dose today). He looks like he has a white spot on him and some of his fins are discolored and frayed, and his teeth aren't red anymore. Are there any other treatments that would be worth trying with the kana? I haven't noticed any stringy poops or anything that would suggest internal parasites, but I did read that Kanaplex and Metroplex can be used together. Based on the lifespans that they can live, I was hoping he'd live for at least another 5 years. Live pods and ghost shrimp are on the way to try and entice him to eat, but he hasn't gone for the few live amphipods that I did put in there. Any help would be greatly appreciated, I really want him to pull through.
Added a video, but he's moving very little so not sure if it's helpful.

Looks to be an injury especially being one eye and treatable using maracyn as pictured below for at least 5 days in a separate tank

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Looking for advice. I have a 10 yr old Redtoothed Trigger that has been in my 90 gallon tank for around 3 years. After we got back from a week long vacation, his eye looked like it had a bubble, which I'm thinking might be popeye. At the time, he had no other symptoms and was acting normal/eating well so I thought it might have been an injury. After around a week it looked like the swelling was going down, but last Thursday he took a major turn for the worse... Lethargic, wouldn't eat and would wedge himself in the sand by a rock and not move. Did an emergency water change Friday night, nitrates were <20 and no sign of ammonia. Salinity is 1.025. On Saturday I finally moved him to a hospital tank and started treating with Kanaplex (just finished 3rd dose today). He looks like he has a white spot on him and some of his fins are discolored and frayed, and his teeth aren't red anymore. Are there any other treatments that would be worth trying with the kana? I haven't noticed any stringy poops or anything that would suggest internal parasites, but I did read that Kanaplex and Metroplex can be used together. Based on the lifespans that they can live, I was hoping he'd live for at least another 5 years. Live pods and ghost shrimp are on the way to try and entice him to eat, but he hasn't gone for the few live amphipods that I did put in there. Any help would be greatly appreciated, I really want him to pull through.
Added a video, but he's moving very little so not sure if it's helpful.

I can't see much in the video - just that it looks pretty small for a 10 year old redtooth trigger - I'd expect it to be 8+". The right eye seems to have a corneal ulcer, does the other eye have one also? Finally, the fish's nape is pinched (thin behind the eye). That's a sign of chronic malnutrition.

All of that put together leads me to think this is a Mycobacterium infection, something very common in older, long term captive fish. Unfortunately, it isn't treatable.

 

[monster27]

I can't see much in the video - just that it looks pretty small for a 10 year old redtooth trigger - I'd expect it to be 8+". The right eye seems to have a corneal ulcer, does the other eye have one also? Finally, the fish's nape is pinched (thin behind the eye). That's a sign of chronic malnutrition.

All of that put together leads me to think this is a Mycobacterium infection, something very common in older, long term captive fish. Unfortunately, it isn't treatable.

Thank you for the input, I saw a few posts talking about how some have seen the combo of kanaplex + neomycin send the fish into remission? In your experience, is there any validity to this? I know it's a long shot but I hate seeing him waste away.

Is mycobacterium a natural part of the biome for a marine tank, or do I need to do something drastic for the display tank? I have 2 clowns, a 10 yr old tomini tang and a fairy wrasse. Also have anemones, soft corals and LPS. They all seem to be doing well, however, I did recently lose my starry blenny at around the same time that the trigger took a turn for the worse, which is why I did the emergency water change and specifically looked for an ammonia spike. I had talked to the lfs and they did not seem to think the two incidents were related. He didn't have any noticeable symptoms before he died, and he was also est around 5 years old. At the same time we also found a rock that had fallen and it wasn't far from where his body was found. It's been difficult to figure out what's going on.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you for the input, I saw a few posts talking about how some have seen the combo of kanaplex + neomycin send the fish into remission? In your experience, is there any validity to this? I know it's a long shot but I hate seeing him waste away.

Is mycobacterium a natural part of the biome for a marine tank, or do I need to do something drastic for the display tank? I have 2 clowns, a 10 yr old tomini tang and a fairy wrasse. Also have anemones, soft corals and LPS. They all seem to be doing well, however, I did recently lose my starry blenny at around the same time that the trigger took a turn for the worse, which is why I did the emergency water change and specifically looked for an ammonia spike. I had talked to the lfs and they did not seem to think the two incidents were related. He didn't have any noticeable symptoms before he died, and he was also est around 5 years old. At the same time we also found a rock that had fallen and it wasn't far from where his body was found. It's been difficult to figure out what's going on.

Myco is a normal constituent of aquariums - it comes in through food items, and even the tap water.

I've never heard of Neomycin controlling Myco - supposedly Rifampicin can, but the result is always the same - once drug therapy stops, the disease just comes back in the previously infected fish.

Here is some additional text that I wrote about it:

Mycobacterium infection (AKA "Fish Tuberculosis") is a common, yet often misdiagnosed bacterial disease of freshwater and marine fish. It has zoonotic potential as it can infect humans through cuts in the skin.

Symptoms are varied and non-specific, and can include darkened coloration, popeye, emaciation, fin erosion, skin ulcers, and granulomas on the internal organs (which will stain for gram positive, acid-fast bacteria). In most cases, the disease is chronic and slow acting, with most fish succumbing due to "old age". However, in some species, held under crowded conditions, acute Mycobacterium infections have been seen, where a high percentage of the population will die, even at a young age. This has been noted in cichlids, pupfish, pirate perch and zebra danios.

Many treatments for Mycobacterium infections in fish have been proposed, but none work well. Antibiotics that have been used include erythromycin, kanamycin, and rifampicin. It is probable that any drug used would need to be dosed orally, especially if freshwater fish are being treated. Control is the best course of action; maintain optimal water quality, avoid overcrowding, and remove any dead fish promptly.

Atypical Mycobacterium, M. chelonae, M. fortuitum, M. marinum are very common in the environment, and therefore are found in aquariums. They are difficult to culture but can be isolated from virtually every aquarium if you sample properly. They are commonly found in frozen seafood items, so the chance of them being introduced into aquariums is consistently high.

Sterilization of infected tank decorations and equipment is difficult, and not strongly advised since these bacteria are already in the environment, but > 200 ppm sodium hypochlorite for > 1 hour has been shown to be effective (Noga 2010).

 

[monster27]

Myco is a normal constituent of aquariums - it comes in through food items, and even the tap water.

I've never heard of Neomycin controlling Myco - supposedly Rifampicin can, but the result is always the same - once drug therapy stops, the disease just comes back in the previously infected fish.

Here is some additional text that I wrote about it:

Mycobacterium infection (AKA "Fish Tuberculosis") is a common, yet often misdiagnosed bacterial disease of freshwater and marine fish. It has zoonotic potential as it can infect humans through cuts in the skin.

Symptoms are varied and non-specific, and can include darkened coloration, popeye, emaciation, fin erosion, skin ulcers, and granulomas on the internal organs (which will stain for gram positive, acid-fast bacteria). In most cases, the disease is chronic and slow acting, with most fish succumbing due to "old age". However, in some species, held under crowded conditions, acute Mycobacterium infections have been seen, where a high percentage of the population will die, even at a young age. This has been noted in cichlids, pupfish, pirate perch and zebra danios.

Many treatments for Mycobacterium infections in fish have been proposed, but none work well. Antibiotics that have been used include erythromycin, kanamycin, and rifampicin. It is probable that any drug used would need to be dosed orally, especially if freshwater fish are being treated. Control is the best course of action; maintain optimal water quality, avoid overcrowding, and remove any dead fish promptly.

Atypical Mycobacterium, M. chelonae, M. fortuitum, M. marinum are very common in the environment, and therefore are found in aquariums. They are difficult to culture but can be isolated from virtually every aquarium if you sample properly. They are commonly found in frozen seafood items, so the chance of them being introduced into aquariums is consistently high.

Sterilization of infected tank decorations and equipment is difficult, and not strongly advised since these bacteria are already in the environment, but > 200 ppm sodium hypochlorite for > 1 hour has been shown to be effective (Noga 2010).

I really appreciate all of the information. I guess the next question is if I don't see any noticeable improvement in the next week, is the best course of action euthanasia? I really hate to prolong the suffering. Sorry I hope that doesn't violate any codes of conduct talking about that. I can delete if it does.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I really appreciate all of the information. I guess the next question is if I don't see any noticeable improvement in the next week, is the best course of action euthanasia? I really hate to prolong the suffering. Sorry I hope that doesn't violate any codes of conduct talking about that. I can delete if it does.

I'd give it up to two weeks. If you don't see an improvement, then consider euthanasia. Here is a post I made about that:

Fish Euthanasia

Euthanasia Euthanasia is a word derived from two Greek words that roughly translates to “good death”. In other words, euthanasia is the painless killing of an organism. In general usage, there is also the underlying understanding that euthanasia is performed on terminal patients only. This...

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