Six line wrasse issue

Kongar · Sep 15, 2020

My six line has started having issues with it's equilibrium. At first, it was only noticeable after a feeding - it's belly was a little bloated, and it would tilt side to side instead of being vertical (maybe 20 degrees). Then, everything was fine after an hour or so. But it's very slowly getting worse. Now after feedings, it's like drunk and quickly flashing/darting to right itself. It gets better, but doesn't completely go away anymore. Been about 3 days.

Swim bladder issue? (which is apparently common?) Or is it a feeding thing? I tried small pellets as well as mysis - neither makes a difference. It still eats like a hog, but showed no interest in a pea. I'm trying to figure out if it's a constipation/feeding thing, and should I switch something up - OR is it a swim bladder thing which from what I'm gathering, is pretty much a death sentence.

Thanks for your thoughts and advice :)

KrisReef · Sep 15, 2020

I don't know. Pictures of the fish swimming after feeding might help others provide you with a diagnosis/prognosis.

I might be tempted to cut back on feeding if it was pigging out so much it could not swim? GL.

skiman27 · Sep 15, 2020

@Jay Hemdal may be able to help

Kongar · Sep 15, 2020

KrisReef said:
I don't know. Pictures of the fish swimming after feeding might help others provide you with a diagnosis/prognosis.

I might be tempted to cut back on feeding if it was pigging out so much it could not swim? GL.

I'll do one better and take a quick 15 second video of him tonight after I feed him. I'd do it right now, but he looks normal again. It's different than the "I'm looking at the sky and swimming around in circles" or "upside down" I've seen videos of swim bladder issues. I'm thinking he's just a fat butt and eats too much, too quickly and is making himself sick.

Jay Hemdal · Sep 15, 2020

I’ve seen fish do this after gorging on flake food, but not pellets/mysids. Do you have any frozen brine? Its a horrible food, but useful as a test laxative (instead of peas).
Jay

Zionas · Sep 16, 2020

I don’t mean to derail OP’s thread but what is your opinion of most frozen preparations in general? Frozen mysis, brine, bloodworms, copepods, plankton etc.

I know pellets are the most nutrient dense out of the 3 main kinds of food (Flakes, pellets, and frozen) and I’m wondering if they should be the staple for my fishs’ nutrition over frozen.

Jay Hemdal · Sep 16, 2020

Zionas said:
I don’t mean to derail OP’s thread but what is your opinion of most frozen preparations in general? Frozen mysis, brine, bloodworms, copepods, plankton etc.

I know pellets are the most nutrient dense out of the 3 main kinds of food (Flakes, pellets, and frozen) and I’m wondering if they should be the staple for my fishs’ nutrition over frozen.

Dietary needs are different for different species, but brine shrimp is the least nutritious of about anything we feed our fish - low in fat and protein, very low in HUFAs. It is a good laxative, and fish really like it. Pellets are best as they are fortified with vitamins and minerals. Bloodworms can cause allergies in some people, but are good. Large mysids can be a bit fatty, but are great for growing fish. Frozen foods can suffer from poor handling - being thawed and refrozen many times in the supply chain. I bought some cubed mysids last year that smelled so bad I threw them out. Handled properly frozen foods are great - fish really accept them.

Jay

Kongar · Sep 16, 2020

Yup I do have some frozen, I fed that wondering if it made a difference, but it didn’t. Strangely, I fed last night and had the camera ready, but he was completely back to normal 0_0 I suppose an effective treatment method is simply posting here ;)

Seriously though, I doubt I’m in the clear - I’ll post a vid if/when it happens again. He’s still taking a nap in the sand as wrasses tend to do. When he wakes up I’m sure he’ll gorge himself again on whatever I give him. I’m now leaning even more towards a feeding/constipation/gorging problem, as I doubt a swim bladder issue would just disappear.

If it shows up again, I’m thinking I’ll feed just the tiniest bits of pellets and wait ten minutes. He’ll aggressively be the only fish that gets any food. Give the food time to expand in his belly, or register in his brain that’s he’s not starving. Then feed more so my clowns actually get a chance to eat.

Beautiful fish, but six lines sure are tank terrors / very strange fish.

Zionas · Sep 16, 2020

Thanks. Would easier to keep fish like Captive Bred Clownfish, Royal Grammas, YWGs, Rabbitfish and so on be able to stay healthy and thriving with a diet of mostly flakes and pellets and only the occasional feeding of frozen foods, or should I be feeding frozen foods (Carnivore and Herbivore, feed both kinds for omnivores) regularly?

Kongar · Sep 22, 2020

So I'm resurrecting this week old thread. My wrasse was 100% fine after my last post Wednesday. But, today after I fed my fish - he looked like this. Pretty bad. :confused: (Please excuse the blue lights - I wanted to catch him in the act and didn't bother pulling out my orange filter).

I've been feeding him less overall, less per feeding, and more feedings. Didn't seem to make a long term difference. There's no visible signs of disease, funny marks, etc. My two clowns are plugging along fine, and my corals are all doing well. As far as tank health goes - tank is almost 6 months old and still going through the uglies. As you can see I'm battling GHA now, which is a result of overfeeding for about a month in an effort to beat back LA Dinos (boy those sucked). I've won the battle against dinos for now, and I'll happily take the GHA over them. But I think the extra food could be a contributor to the wrasses health issues.

It's noteworthy that this behavior started AFTER I stopped feeding extra. The only tank parameters out of whack are nitrates (very low) and phosphates (a little high). Na detectable, but very near zero. Phosphates at .135 and coming down.

Rest of parameters are ok.
Salinity 35ppm
ammonia and nitrite 0
KH 9
PH 7.8-8.1
CA 460
Mg 1460

Only other point to note is that I've lost a couple of trochus snails over the past month. Not sure what that's all about, but they were eating the dinos, like a lot (which was surprising), and now they are dead. Not sure if that's relevant or not - sounds like snails dying is common, but I'm new and not sure what's normal. But maybe related.

Anyways, I'm at the "don't think there's anything I can do for this guy" stage, but if you all have any suggestions to help my wrasse out - I'm listening.

Thanks!
Kongar

Jay Hemdal · Sep 22, 2020

That isn't positive buoyancy, you can see him sink after each tail flip. It could be negative buoyancy, but really, I see some sort of neurological issue...I just can't figure out why the feeding would trigger that.

Jay

Kongar · Sep 22, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
That isn't positive buoyancy, you can see him sink after each tail flip. It could be negative buoyancy, but really, I see some sort of neurological issue...I just can't figure out why the feeding would trigger that.

Jay

Thanks - appreciate the help. It's weird. I'd like to help the little guy, but don't know how. What's your opinion on some other test kits? I read that copper and other metals are bad, and sometimes people test for copper when inverts die. Maybe wrasse neuroligical issues are related? I'm thinking I'll look into getting one just find out if something is leeching into my water. I did change my DI resin last week - it wasn't spent, but just to be sure...