SPS color loss

[CoralClasher]

What kinds of additives should be used to bring back color to SPS? My problem started a long time ago when LFS told me to keep phosphate low as possible but didn't tell me 0.00 is really bad. Dinos set in and I was confused because everytime I added fish food or coral food the Dinos would get worse. Now I'm really close to being Dino free by keeping phosphate at least 0.04 and No3 at 3ppm, added pods and feeding them live phytoplankton and using two magnum polishers with diotom powder. I'm using AF component 123 Alk 151ppm, ca 455 and Mag 1440 and are steady. I do have most of the AF additives haven't used them for a while because Dinos got worse using amino acids.

 

[bobby.w.hodges]

The only time I've seen this is when nitrates were to low. what test kit are you using?

 

[CoralClasher]

The only time I've seen this is when nitrates were to low. what test kit are you using?

Red Sea test kit. Yes my nitrates were very low if not 0. I've been testing almost daily for five months and adding NeoNitro as needed to stay at 3ppm. What's the magic number for phosphate and nitrogen? I'm not worried about green hair algae just want good healthy looking corals.

 

[jda]

Additives will not help. Best lighting, stability with good parameter levels and patience is the only recipe.

 

[bobby.w.hodges]

Although the redfield radio doesn't truly apply to reefs it suggests at 16 to 1 ratio of Nitrate to phosphate. That would put phosphate levels at 0.18 with your Nitrate at 3. The fact is, coral needs Nitrate and phosphate to grow, the bleached out look is a sign of stress due to limited nutrients available in the water column.

 

[Reef Pro]

I would suggest a icp test... generally when color isn’t the best it has to do with nutrient levels and trace elements...

 

[CoralClasher]

Although the redfield radio doesn't truly apply to reefs it suggests at 16 to 1 ratio of Nitrate to phosphate. That would put phosphate levels at 0.18 with your Nitrate at 3. The fact is, coral needs Nitrate and phosphate to grow, the bleached out look is a sign of stress due to limited nutrients available in the water column.

Do I need or want Nitrate that high?

 

[bobby.w.hodges]

Do I need or want Nitrate that high?

A "healthy" Nitrate level in my opinion is between 5-10ppm.

 

[CoralClasher]

A "healthy" Nitrate level in my opinion is between 5-10ppm.

I'm willing to increase nitrogen should I also increase phosphate?

 

[bobby.w.hodges]

In my opinion, phosphate doesn't have a much to do with color as Nitrate does, another way to raise your nutrients without dosing would be to reduce your skimmer run time by shutting it off for a couple hours each night via a timer or controller, that would increase both in a balanced ratio but will take longer.

 

[CoralClasher]

I haven't ran the skimmer now for two weeks and I'm still adding 40ml few times a week.

 

[CoralClasher]

No GFO just a small bag of carbon inside a roller mat filter.

 

[CoralClasher]

I'm working on getting more fishes just so I don't have to keep dosing phosphate and nitrogen.

 

[bobby.w.hodges]

I'm sure you will find a good balance that works, I'm in need of a few more fish myself for the same reason.

 

[bobby.w.hodges]

Do you have a fuge?

 

[CoralClasher]

Yes it's a 55 gallon tank with 160 pounds of Oolite sand

 

[jda]

Don't chase the N and P. You have enough. More will not do anything. A surplus is a surplus. These are used as building blocks of life and not energy, so more cannot do anything... .1 is as good as 1 or as good as 10 for the corals.

Throughput is what you are after, not residual numbers on a test kit. Feeding more fish is good. Heavy import and heavy export. Most corals get their nitrogen from ammonia anyway, which is available in small doses throughout the day. This is a more natural way of getting corals nitrogen than dosing it.

Lights, stability and patience. I know that none of these show up on a test kit, but nobody said that it was easy.

 

[jda]

This of N and P as building blocks and like putting bricks on the outside of a home. You can only lay so many at once, so you only need that small supply, but you need that small supply to stay constant. Having a whole yard and driveway full of bricks that you might never use just gums up the works and makes things harder than they need to be.

Most people see the term "nutrients" in association with N and P and think energy, like human food. While they are technically a nutrient, N and P are not used for energy but people think that more can do more when this does not happen. Energy comes from the zoox in the coral and if they can catch any carbon-rich foods that have more energy that it took to make the catch - it is not likely that corals eat anything that we feed them in captivity... so just focus on the lights. For example, ocean has very low levels of N and P, but there is still a slight surplus at about .1 N and .005-.01 P. Most everything that we have in our tanks is collected on one-breath in shallow water and has access to full-spectrum light in high quantity. Some corals are in water full of zoo and phyto plankton and can feed - some are on reefs with nearly none... most acropora are on reefs with nearly none. Light is the key to getting energy. Try and mimic this for best success.

I noticed that you said that you dosed aminos. This is fine, but your coral are likely not getting any. Single cell organisms like algae and bacteria will use the aminos likely long before the corals do. This can contribute to ammonia and N and P on the backend, which can help some coral in some situations, but the corals are not likely getting any aminos. I would be shocked if you quit adding them and noticed any difference with your corals... some people notice, but the masses do not.

 

[CoralClasher]

Wow thanks that really makes sense. I'll just make sure I don't see 0.00 and keep feeding the fish a good mix of food.

 

[jda]

You will never have zero unless you are using chemicals or media to remove it. This would be Organic Carbon dosing, GFO, Lanthaum Chloride, etc. This can truly get to zero. The natural methods will always leave just a trace to keep the equilibrium moving forward - nature is smart like this. The diatoms are VERY effective filters and these could be removing a lot of the organics before they can biodegrade, so I might stop running the diatoms on a daily basis - they can still be very useful for an occasional water polishing.

The 0.00 is just because our test kits suck. My tank shows 0.00 N on a hobby-grade test kit, but I have to send out ICP to get a real reading of about .1. In a new tank, aragonite can bind a lot of the phosphate early on, but usually after a few months you can see 1 to 3 ppb on a Hannah Ultra Low Checker - this enough phosphate.

Your photos look like you have a mature-enough tank with plenty of coralline.

If you want better acropora color and only use LED, then get some T5s. If you have 2x T5s then get 4x or until the T5s can carry the heavy load and the LEDs are used to fill in color and stuff. You do not see acropora people who added T5s to their LEDs and were unhappy - you might find one or two, but that is about it. If you are running T5s, then let us know which bulbs and adding a more daylight bulb might help. The lack of spectrum below 400nm and above 600nm for LED only tanks works for a lot of corals and will grow and color them "just fine," but it sounds like you want more than "just fine" with your acropora.

BTW - I saw your sand bed post. It will take some diverse live rock and sand from an established tank, and about six months, for it to get teeming with life - it is worth the wait. Once it does get some the rainbow of colors on the front glass and all of the gunk, then get a few conchs and a cucumber - Florida ones are fine... they are like magic cleaners.