Starfish and Shrimp Concerns

[NickNiz]

Hey all! I set up a 28g cube about 6 weeks ago and added my first fish about 1.5 weeks ago.

My first fish was a possum wrasse that looked great in store, but when I got home and started floating him, he was belly up (not dead) in the bag... also noticed one eye was slightly cloudy. After adding to the tank, it took 4 days for him to begin eating, and the cloudiness in the eye went away. The wrasse always had weird behavior, sleeping upside down in a cave, becoming really pale, me thinking it was dead multiple times.

Anyways, I came home after work about 7 days after adding it to the tank, and saw the serpent star and Coral Banded shrimp almost finished eating it. I’m 99% sure it was already dead when they began, but I’m not certain...

5 days (yesterday) and 10gal of water changes later I picked up 2 Blue/Green Chromis. When I woke up this morning, the chromis was sleeping in a corner near the sand with its stress colors, and the shrimp and serpent star were out very close to it. Were they trying to hunt it? Sorry for the overly long post.

Just some background on the star. It’s a banded serpent about 4” across. Not a green brittle or anything haha.

 

[Michael Llabona]

Tank parameters?

 

[nautical_nathaniel]

Not necessarily hunting it but probably waiting to see what happens with it, I've never had a coral banded shrimp but I've heard that they can be a bit mean to weak fish.

I do have a banded serpent star and it doesn't try to hunt my fish. You do have to feed them though since they aren't the best scavengers. I give my a chunk of squid every now and then and also squirt a little LRS Reef Frenzy in the hole it goes in during the day. I almost immediately see a feeding response from it when I do that.

We need to figure out why your fish aren't do so hot though, possum wrasses are pretty tough and I've never heard of one sleeping upside down, maybe on it's side but never upside down. Are the fish at your LFS generally healthy?

 

[Oldsalt01]

I'm thinking u don't quarantine. U run the risk of introducing illness into your DT that can literally take months to get rid of. This is not an indictment, but those of us who have lost a tank to sickness err on the side of caution. Yah, it can be a PIA, but there's also the fun of setting up yet another SW tank. My QT is 5.5 gals and i have it run 24/7 just in case I see a fish or coral I absolutely MUST HAVE. Into the QT they go for the duration. In 2 years I haven't lost a fish to any sickness. Luck? Maybe. JMHO

 

[NickNiz]

Tank parameters are:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate: 10ppm
Phosphate: 0.03
Alk: 8.9
Calcium: 480
Salinity: 1.026

As for the LFS, they have different sections of tanks (maybe 20-40 tanks each) running off of the same filtration for each section. The possum wrasse was doing well there, although a little shy. They’d had it for less than a week. However, I noticed a few days later that other fish in the same section seemed to be struggling.

The section I got the Chromis from seemed to be fine... I think the color change was from just a reaction since the lights were out and it was it’s first night in the tank. But it was weird since the second (larger) Chromis maintained its green/blue color when the lights were out.

And I remember the shrimp would occasionally lunge at the wrasse when it got too close, but didn’t think it would inflict enough damage to cause real harm.

 

[NickNiz]

I'm thinking u don't quarantine. U run the risk of introducing illness into your DT that can literally take months to get rid of. This is not an indictment, but those of us who have lost a tank to sickness err on the side of caution. Yah, it can be a PIA, but there's also the fun of setting up yet another SW tank. My QT is 5.5 gals and i have it run 24/7 just in case I see a fish or coral I absolutely MUST HAVE. Into the QT they go for the duration. In 2 years I haven't lost a fish to any sickness. Luck? Maybe. JMHO

Im coming from a 12 gal that I plan on converting into a QT, but it still has coral and an anemone in it since I’m still slowly moving stuff to the new tank. I know it’s risky but I just wanted something in the new tank to provide some bio load.

 

[Dsnakes]

My serpent star is pretty quick and loves his food, but I can't see them hunting a fish. Probably found the wrasse dead or dying, and didn't want to waste it ;Drool

 

[nautical_nathaniel]

Probably found the wrasse dead or dying, and didn't want to waste it

That's what they do!

Im coming from a 12 gal that I plan on converting into a QT, but it still has coral and an anemone in it since I’m still slowly moving stuff to the new tank. I know it’s risky but I just wanted something in the new tank to provide some bio load.

Since your tank is relatively new, it could still be having some nutrient balance issues and the addition of a new fish can shock the system, in addition to problems from stress that the wrasse was definitely experiencing from being moved halfway around the world in a couple of weeks and going through many different holding cycles, probably wasn't a good environment for the little guy.

As for the LFS, they have different sections of tanks (maybe 20-40 tanks each) running off of the same filtration for each section. The possum wrasse was doing well there, although a little shy. They’d had it for less than a week. However, I noticed a few days later that other fish in the same section seemed to be struggling.

The section I got the Chromis from seemed to be fine... I think the color change was from just a reaction since the lights were out and it was it’s first night in the tank. But it was weird since the second (larger) Chromis maintained its green/blue color when the lights were out.

And I remember the shrimp would occasionally lunge at the wrasse when it got too close, but didn’t think it would inflict enough damage to cause real harm.

A minor suggestion on my part, when an LFS says that they have only had the fish a couple of days, I honestly would wait a couple of days longer. When an LFS has a single loop system for all of their livestock tanks, or at least a lot of tanks on a single system, there's no telling what sorts of nasty things are going through that system in the first 24-48 hours. See if they will put the fish on hold for you (come up with some excuse like you need to set up a QT system for the fish, which you should do anyways). If the fish dies, no loss on your part, if you come back and it's healthy still, you've managed to start off with a better chance of success.

 

[NickNiz]

Alright well I have an update.. BOTH chromis are gone. the smaller one went a few days ago and I found the CBS munching on him in the morning. I figured death could’ve been bullying from the larger chromis, but the same thing happened this morning with the larger Chromis.

I didn’t see any signs of infection/disease. The remaining chromis was swimming around eating fine yesterday...

Is there a chance that the CBS could be the culprit? I didn’t think he’d have the strength to restrain a fast chromis, but this is the 3rd fish I’ve caught him munching on in the last 2 weeks... is he targeting these fish while they sleep? He’s pretty big... should I try to return him to the LFS and go with a cleaner Shrimp?

I’m probably going to go fishless for a while and then try another chromis in a month or two. Just looking for opinions.

 

[Jennie]

Did you drip acclimate your fish? What is your LFS salinity?

 

[Yuki Rihwa]

FYI and future purchase.
A lot of LFS running their tank with hyposalinity to combat ich or at least slow the ich down so they can sell their live stock before the customer seeing illness from the fish and refuse to buy it, so if you don't drip acclimate then your change to kill your new purchase in your tank pretty high with salinity different. I tested a LFS water fish tank and the result they keep their water at 1.015 salinity, while my water is 1.026 that a huge gap different, if I don't drip acclimate them for 5~6 hours or keep acclimiate until the water in bucket matched the salinity in my tank then the fish would die pretty quick in my QT.
Edit:
You might want to ask your LFS about their shipment day and time then visit the store at specific time. My LFS willing to let me choose the new live stock before they open the bag and do their own acclimate for the new shipment. I knew the fish is stressed out but it's easier to deal rather than let them sit in the LFS tank and getting even more stresses and more change to catch more diseases that present in their tank.

 

[NickNiz]

Thanks for the info guys... I was talking to my LFS about the fish deaths. They were saying that they keep their water quality, and salinity, at good levels (1.025-026), but they did mention that they have no idea how many parasites/bacteria are in their water. The staff even said themselves that they always dip new fish that they get from the store.

I think the main cause was the CB Shrimp. All of the fish that died slept deep in the rock, and the wrasse was very slow. The Shrimp was massive too. Probably 5-6” with his claws stretched out, and 8-10” factoring in antennae. You can see some chromis green in him.

I ended up bringing it back to the LFS yesterday and came home with a cleaner Shrimp.

Just to be safe I also added a grounding probe... this is my first tank not running one because I forgot. Threw my old one away a year ago because of salt corrosion and never picked up a new one...

As for acclimation, I normally get 2 cups or so of water from the LFS with the livestock, float for temp, then pour in a small bucket and add half a cup of my water every half hour or so for 2-3 hours... seems to work well, although not as subtle as drip acclimation. Definitely going to start dipping fish as well. I’ll definitely keep the date of livestock arriving at the LFS in mind as well!