Sweet Reef Corals Eye Candy Thread

[Perry]

I value your train of thought my friend. And I don’t discount anything you said. After experiencing these problems I feel that keeping a healthy micro-biome could be a little more challenging when you have to battle pests or nuisances. If this ReBiotic continues to improve the health of acros, it will prove the importance of (re)fortifying your biome. Not to mention the fragility of these closed ecosystems.

This system has no skimmer, UV is installed but has been off for months. I don’t run carbon (but I’m wondering if I should use a small bag for a week or two). I don’t run filter socks but I do have a 1” floss brick in the overflow section for large particulates. I also have live rock under the racks, a large ceramic media bag and live rock in the sump as well. I feel like I have a good amount of surface area for the bacteria to colonize, I would just never have thought that interceptor would damage those as it appears to have done here. Crazy! I just hope I continue to see long term improvements.

Interesting thought: Can you make a system dependent on ReBiotic? Or will the colonization of probiotic bacteria be at optimal levels after the 6 weeks dosing regimen?

Interceptor unfortunately while a tremendous product, will crash the living pods, possibly eggs, who knows. Usually cyano or dinos quickly follow, as a missing component of the micro-biome. Having separate systems for rock/sand holding is what has saved my butt several times, quickly re-innoculate the system. I added a sandbed fron an old quarantine tank, that was foul, but risedd several times over. 2 days later, full spectrum, no dinos, cyano, sand Pearl white. .. Most reefers wouldn't dare repurpose. I look at the benefits more than the drawbacks. Stir it up, coral snow with nitrifying bacteria, boom...
N03 up 10ppm, but p04 now carries w/o intervention, at .12ppm .2 +/- over 24 hours. 100/1 settled on its own.
Ad far as ReBiotic, I see it as an ongoing thing. I use it 2 times per week, I dose each tank separate. I cannot see any harm through long term use. The bacteria life-cycle ensure this. Surface area for homing, that's where it will advance filtration as the biomedia mimicks liverock, some suggest 60 to 80 times more porous than the old school live rock, which was quite porous. This extends surface area, especially advantageous for sand less systems, as sands surface area is endless, especially when disturbed, or deep...

Edit: this setup sounds great, it should work fine. When doing water change, put a small dose of nitrifying bacteria in exchange water, that or use your main systems water for the exchange, better, free bacteria :)

 

[Sweet Reef Corals]

Interceptor unfortunately while a tremendous product, will crash the living pods, possibly eggs, who knows. Usually cyano or dinos quickly follow, as a missing component of the micro-biome. Having separate systems for rock/sand holding is what has saved my butt several times, quickly re-innoculate the system. I added a sandbed fron an old quarantine tank, that was foul, but risedd several times over. 2 days later, full spectrum, no dinos, cyano, sand Pearl white. .. Most reefers wouldn't dare repurpose. I look at the benefits more than the drawbacks. Stir it up, coral snow with nitrifying bacteria, boom...
N03 up 10ppm, but p04 now carries w/o intervention, at .12ppm .2 +/- over 24 hours. 100/1 settled on its own.
Ad far as ReBiotic, I see it as an ongoing thing. I use it 2 times per week, I dose each tank separate. I cannot see any harm through long term use. The bacteria life-cycle ensure this. Surface area for homing, that's where it will advance filtration as the biomedia mimicks liverock, some suggest 60 to 80 times more porous than the old school live rock, which was quite porous. This extends surface area, especially advantageous for sand less systems, as sands surface area is endless, especially when disturbed, or deep...

Edit: this setup sounds great, it should work fine. When doing water change, put a small dose of nitrifying bacteria in exchange water, that or use your main systems water for the exchange, better, free bacteria :)

The only thing that bothers me about the ReBiotic is the purpose of the sandy silt that never dissolves in the mixing container for the hour before dosing?! Would love to know more about that

When you say bio media I believe you’re referring to media like the zeovit media? I did get that in today but was too busy to check it out. I plan to put half the bag in the main system and the other half in this backup system timorrow.

 

[Rams]

Heavy in heavy out is an old school BRS recommendation I do try to follow. However, in this system I really have no export other than weekly 10% WC’s and siphoning turds off the bare bottom under the racks. :face-with-tears-of-joy:

 

[coral reeftank]

The addition of these bacteria products are a tremendous benefit to our acros that for sure Jesse!
I’ve been mixing zeobak and zeozym along with aminos and coral foods into one concoction and my acros are probably the happiest they’ve been. All the extra bacteria in water really promotes PE and will definitely get those “stunted”/slow growers to pick up the pace!

 

[Perry]

The only thing that bothers me about the ReBiotic is the purpose of the sandy silt that never dissolves in the mixing container for the hour before dosing?! Would love to know more about that

When you say bio media I believe you’re referring to media like the zeovit media? I did get that in today but was too busy to check it out. I plan to put half the bag in the main system and the other half in this backup system timorrow.

The residue left behind is intended to adhere to surfaces. In my case, it's covering surfaces of problem rock, as well as other build-up throughout the system. I am watching the funk on rocks, with layers presumably peeling/shedding. Deep build-up if you will.
Biomedia and zeolites are quite different. Zeolites rely on outer surfaces to build bacteria, the rocks are cleansed by shaking or pulsing this as a media. The mulm released serves as food for the entire system, then the skimmer and/, or mechanical or biological filtration process remove leftovers. Zeolites are great for rapid ammonia removal, and may work well since skimmer less, but go passive if you do. Just put in a mesh bag and knead daily. Ceramics, pumice, and siporax, are a few types of biomedia available. Adding biomedia expands the bacteria homing capacity. Endless surfaces for bacteria to grow. For your prop tank, look into AF Life Bio Fil, which is pumice, pre-seeded with their Probio bacteria blend. Therefore, the stones go live upon introduction to the water. I prefer siporax above all, as its sintered glass make-up is know to be the most porous biomedia available. The biomedia is like adding more rock to your system, but without having to add an entire tank to home it.

 

[Charlie the Reefer]

Really interesting thoughts in this thread! Not to derail, but do you guys think it’s ok to be running UV while dosing bacteria products? Or would it be counter productive… (sorry if that’s a bad question… :anguished-face:)

 

[Perry]

Really interesting thoughts in this thread! Not to derail, but do you guys think it’s ok to be running UV while dosing bacteria products? Or would it be counter productive… (sorry if that’s a bad question… :anguished-face:)

For intermittent use, or problematic use, or for startups, maybe ok. Longterm, not on board, personally, it's quite counterintuitive to the premise of building a biome. To each their own, but has anyone thought about who benefits from a tug of war scenario? Who benefits from your dry rock failure? Why do companies convince you that animals, as per part of the ecosystem are pests?
UV Sterilizer- $
Fleece rollers/ Socks- $
Bottled Bacteria-$
Coral foods- $
Now, I suppose the companies will see ^ then activate their influencers ;)
Are we over-thinking this, slap a piece of live fiji rock, hang on back protein skimmer, live sand, no mechanical filtration, and lights.. walla...

@Sweet Reef Corals
Understanding Probiotic bacteria versus nitrifying bacteria. Probiotic is building blocks, nitrifying, well, is just that. They do work well together. Rebiotic is "re"- re-fresh, re-new, re-store, re-balance.
My anecdotal take, FWIW :)

 

[Sweet Reef Corals]

The addition of these bacteria products are a tremendous benefit to our acros that for sure Jesse!
I’ve been mixing zeobak and zeozym along with aminos and coral foods into one concoction and my acros are probably the happiest they’ve been. All the extra bacteria in water really promotes PE and will definitely get those “stunted”/slow growers to pick up the pace!

Based on this Rebiotic experiment, I am believing in it Allen! It’s just a matter of how I want to go about achieving the successes that you guys appear to be having with these products.

I must have a pretty healthy bacterial biome in my main system. I have always had really good PE in it.

When I read descriptions of some of these products and they say it lowers nutrients (zeobak), that worries me. I know it’s probably backward thinking/fears I have from past experiences but when I see that I think “carbon dosing”. Zeobak says that in it’s BRS description. However Zeozym says it’s an enzyme that promotes bacterial metabolism. I may have to consider that one down the road, should this ReBiotic get me back in order in the backup system

 

[Sweet Reef Corals]

The residue left behind is intended to adhere to surfaces. In my case, it's covering surfaces of problem rock, as well as other build-up throughout the system. I am watching the funk on rocks, with layers presumably peeling/shedding. Deep build-up if you will.
Biomedia and zeolites are quite different. Zeolites rely on outer surfaces to build bacteria, the rocks are cleansed by shaking or pulsing this as a media. The mulm released serves as food for the entire system, then the skimmer and/, or mechanical or biological filtration process remove leftovers. Zeolites are great for rapid ammonia removal, and may work well since skimmer less, but go passive if you do. Just put in a mesh bag and knead daily. Ceramics, pumice, and siporax, are a few types of biomedia available. Adding biomedia expands the bacteria homing capacity. Endless surfaces for bacteria to grow. For your prop tank, look into AF Life Bio Fil, which is pumice, pre-seeded with their Probio bacteria blend. Therefore, the stones go live upon introduction to the water. I prefer siporax above all, as its sintered glass make-up is know to be the most porous biomedia available. The biomedia is like adding more rock to your system, but without having to add an entire tank to home it.

I’ll have to keep an eye on the “adhering“ effect as we continue this experiment..

Gotcha, I do have a very large ceramic “Biomedia” bag in the sump. Wasn’t sure if that’s what you were referring to or not.

So what is your take on just having a static pile of Zeolite media in the sump and not necessarily shaking it to release the mulm on a regular basis? I believe that is what Allen said he does.

 

[coral reeftank]

Based on this Rebiotic experiment, I am believing in it Allen! It’s just a matter of how I want to go about achieving the successes that you guys appear to be having with these products.

I must have a pretty healthy bacterial biome in my main system. I have always had really good PE in it.

When I read descriptions of some of these products and they say it lowers nutrients (zeobak), that worries me. I know it’s probably backward thinking/fears I have from past experiences but when I see that I think “carbon dosing”. Zeobak says that in it’s BRS description. However Zeozym says it’s an enzyme that promotes bacterial metabolism. I may have to consider that one down the road, should this ReBiotic get me back in order in the backup system

That’s great Jesse, I hope your system rebounds fast!
In our closed systems we are bound to experience boom and bust cycles. I think the key with using these products is that you HAVE TO FEED HEAVY! This way you will never bottom out nutrients. A healthy sps system will suck up phosphates and nitrates at an astonishing pace. This could potentially crash bacterial populations in our tanks when the environment becomes adverse. By feeding heavily alongside all these products we can prevent this through the continual supply of nutrients leading to stable bacterial populations which supply our corals with a stable supply of food and nutrients.

 

[Sweet Reef Corals]

Really interesting thoughts in this thread! Not to derail, but do you guys think it’s ok to be running UV while dosing bacteria products? Or would it be counter productive… (sorry if that’s a bad question… :anguished-face:)

Never a bad question when we are all learning Charlie....
Personally, I use UV more as an algae inhibitor and water clarifier. If I don’t run my UV for about 6-8hrs a day my water gets really green really fast. The other positive effect a little UV use can have is to cut down on nuisance algae’s and keeping dinos away when I clean my frag racks. UV is very beneficial for all those things but it needs to be used in an equilibrium as to not strip the water of live algae, phytoplankton, zooplankton, bacteria, etc.

If I were dosing the ReBiotic in my main system, yes, I would turn the UV off for 24hrs after dosing.

 

[coral reeftank]

I’ll have to keep an eye on the “adhering“ effect as we continue this experiment..

Gotcha, I do have a very large ceramic “Biomedia” bag in the sump. Wasn’t sure if that’s what you were referring to or not.

So what is your take on just having a static pile of Zeolite media in the sump and not necessarily shaking it to release the mulm on a regular basis? I believe that is what Allen said he does.

I have about 3 bags worth in a 160 gallon volume that I added over the course of a few months. I keep all my zeolites where my overflow drains into the sump. I think that pulsing them would be the best option since that will release the biofilm that accumulates on them, but if you want a more passive approach you can do this, or just place them in a filter bag. I’ve had these in my tank for a few years now.

I don’t see a need to replace them since I run them passively and don’t think that bacteria will magically stop colonizing them after a certain period of time. However, it is possible that they have become less effective.

 

[Perry]

I’ll have to keep an eye on the “adhering“ effect as we continue this experiment..

Gotcha, I do have a very large ceramic “Biomedia” bag in the sump. Wasn’t sure if that’s what you were referring to or not.

So what is your take on just having a static pile of Zeolite media in the sump and not necessarily shaking it to release the mulm on a regular basis? I believe that is what Allen said he does.

Yes, if passive this is correct guidance/info. The premise of Zeovit is the shaking and refreshing of the stones, as they shed, they allow for the refreshed surface to re-innoculate with their specific bacteris strains. The bacteria addition is near the intake of the zeolite reactor, subsequent to pulsing, generally twice per day, if I remember correctly. With Aquaforest, for example, their Probiotic based system is not using zeolites in this manner, more for ammonia removal. In this scenario, usually runs in a reactor, no pulsing, changed every six weeks...not sure if that truly matters, the stones are like river rocks, no pores, at all. I find it remarkably hard to imagine loss of effectiveness, likely $. So, laying them in a media bag, in the sump, will effectively help in removal of toxins, and ammonia. I use them in my air exchange of my AC in the house, in a spahgetti basket, so remove odors, and possible air born toxins. Not too keen on using in my system these days, but they are amazing in high fish populations. I think Allan has tons of fish, if I remember correctly...
My take...

 

[Curiousbranching]

Sorry to interrupt your conversation, I find what you're discussing really resembles my approach to the microbiome. I'm operating the tank without filter socks and limiting the use of the skimmer (I only let the skimmer run for 6 hours at night). Every few days, I add some heterotrophic and nitrifying bacteria, my PE is very good no matter day or night. I have always believed that corals in the wild consume large amounts of nitrogen and phosphate based on the consumption of plankton found in natural seawater. However, equipping too many mechanic filtration methods in the tank may not be the right environment for plankton to grow. The NP in my tank tends to deplete pretty quickly, I don't really care much about the numbers but it seems to be pretty stable at NO3 10-15, PO4 0.06-0.1 . I often rely on the amount of algaes as an indicator of when to add NP in the tank through increasing the amount of fish food. And the opposite of what I was taught when I first started this hobby, for me high NP does not have algaes, but whenever I run out of N or P, algaes grows more.
Great to learn from you guys, thanks.

 

[Sweet Reef Corals]

I have about 3 bags worth in a 160 gallon volume that I added over the course of a few months. I keep all my zeolites where my overflow drains into the sump. I think that pulsing them would be the best option since that will release the biofilm that accumulates on them, but if you want a more passive approach you can do this, or just place them in a filter bag. I’ve had these in my tank for a few years now.

I don’t see a need to replace them since I run them passively and don’t think that bacteria will magically stop colonizing them after a certain period of time. However, it is possible that they have become less effective.

A more passive approach is what I need in my life. Lol. I have enough tank chores to do every day!
I think your passive approach would likely push off any bacterial bloom that might be happening rather than letting it build up to a mulm. I see that as a better approach all around.

Do you know what the zeolite stuff is made of? How does it promote probiotic bacteria populations rather than regular old nitrifying bacteria? I am kind of relating this to anaerobic bacteria that feeds on sulfur in the process of using a sulfur denitrator.

 

[coral reeftank]

A more passive approach is what I need in my life. Lol. I have enough tank chores to do every day!
I think your passive approach would likely push off any bacterial bloom that might be happening rather than letting it build up to a mulm. I see that as a better approach all around.

Do you know what the zeolite stuff is made of? How does it promote probiotic bacteria populations rather than regular old nitrifying bacteria? I am kind of relating this to anaerobic bacteria that feeds on sulfur in the process of using a sulfur denitrator.

Yea, I like the passive approach too! Saves you some cash by not buying a zeolite reactor lol.

I would start off by slowly introducing the zeolites into your system as to not cause any issues relating to them stripping out stuff from the water column and bacterial blooms.
I'm not sure on the exact composition of the KZ zeolites, but according to KZ they are very conducive at promoting beneficial bacterial populations.

 

[Perry]

Sorry to interrupt your conversation, I find what you're discussing really resembles my approach to the microbiome. I'm operating the tank without filter socks and limiting the use of the skimmer (I only let the skimmer run for 6 hours at night). Every few days, I add some heterotrophic and nitrifying bacteria, my PE is very good no matter day or night. I have always believed that corals in the wild consume large amounts of nitrogen and phosphate based on the consumption of plankton found in natural seawater. However, equipping too many mechanic filtration methods in the tank may not be the right environment for plankton to grow. The NP in my tank tends to deplete pretty quickly, I don't really care much about the numbers but it seems to be pretty stable at NO3 10-15, PO4 0.06-0.1 . I often rely on the amount of algaes as an indicator of when to add NP in the tank through increasing the amount of fish food. And the opposite of what I was taught when I first started this hobby, for me high NP does not have algaes, but whenever I run out of N or P, algaes grows more.
Great to learn from you guys, thanks.

This is exactly what I am trying to convey ;)

 

[chipchipbro]

Sorry to interrupt your conversation, I find what you're discussing really resembles my approach to the microbiome. I'm operating the tank without filter socks and limiting the use of the skimmer (I only let the skimmer run for 6 hours at night). Every few days, I add some heterotrophic and nitrifying bacteria, my PE is very good no matter day or night. I have always believed that corals in the wild consume large amounts of nitrogen and phosphate based on the consumption of plankton found in natural seawater. However, equipping too many mechanic filtration methods in the tank may not be the right environment for plankton to grow. The NP in my tank tends to deplete pretty quickly, I don't really care much about the numbers but it seems to be pretty stable at NO3 10-15, PO4 0.06-0.1 . I often rely on the amount of algaes as an indicator of when to add NP in the tank through increasing the amount of fish food. And the opposite of what I was taught when I first started this hobby, for me high NP does not have algaes, but whenever I run out of N or P, algaes grows more.
Great to learn from you guys, thanks.

Ok wait a second..
You say that is you see more film on your glass (what means you have to clean your glass more often) and maybe on the backwalls etc. means that your NP is low? So with higher NP you have to clean less? Sounds interesting!
Ever since my no3 is lower (4-8) I have to clean my glass daily…. And this was not the case when it was higher.

 

[Sweet Reef Corals]

Sorry to interrupt your conversation, I find what you're discussing really resembles my approach to the microbiome. I'm operating the tank without filter socks and limiting the use of the skimmer (I only let the skimmer run for 6 hours at night). Every few days, I add some heterotrophic and nitrifying bacteria, my PE is very good no matter day or night. I have always believed that corals in the wild consume large amounts of nitrogen and phosphate based on the consumption of plankton found in natural seawater. However, equipping too many mechanic filtration methods in the tank may not be the right environment for plankton to grow. The NP in my tank tends to deplete pretty quickly, I don't really care much about the numbers but it seems to be pretty stable at NO3 10-15, PO4 0.06-0.1 . I often rely on the amount of algaes as an indicator of when to add NP in the tank through increasing the amount of fish food. And the opposite of what I was taught when I first started this hobby, for me high NP does not have algaes, but whenever I run out of N or P, algaes grows more.
Great to learn from you guys, thanks.

The one confusing part here is when you say whenever you run out of n/p algae’s grow more. I think there’s something else at play if that is the case for you. I would suspect the 0 nutrients are maybe from dinos starting to take hold in that particular environment. Dinos suck the n/p out of a system faster than any other biological method I’ve seen. Except maybe carbon dosing

For me, if my no3 gets over 20 or my PO4 gets over .10, I see a noticeable progression of GHA growth. When I keep my numbers lower, it’s a lot slower process

 

[Sweet Reef Corals]

Evidently BRS doesn’t sell a whole lot of KZ FWS :face-with-tears-of-joy:

Covered in dust