Switching Controllers from Apex to GHL

Terence

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One could make their own AquaBus cables as well - this is just not the usual Apex customer that wants to plug and play.

You can only extend probe ports so far without a myriad of potential issues. And, I think stretching multiple probe wires across a 12' room, instead of one aquabus cable, is less than ideal.

That seemed all very confusing on the water station thing. I was simply trying to say that if you wanted to monitor the temp and control the saltwater mixing pumps and an inexpensive feed pump from the garage mixing station that it was pretty reasonably priced, and easy. Lots of people like to heat their water in the make-water stations, run a mixing pump, and then push it to their tank(s) at water change time. To do that they just spend about $250 on a PM1, EnergyBar4, and Temp probe - and of course their usual pumps for mixing, etc. Some will add the float switches to the tanks to automate the RODI refill which they could do with the breakout box or other 3rd party available or DIY solution. My point was that if you had your water station say, in the garage, it would much easier and less expensive to extend the Apex to it, than it would the Profilux.

Your point about using another full system (like the yet to be released or priced 4e) is a good one. That is why many people use the Apex Jr. for this purpose already. And the ApexEL could certainly be the best option for someone that would want to spend a few $ extra at its $499 price, rather than extend with modules.

I was not even talking about automatic water change. But for that, most simply have their make-water rotomold containers (often still making and mixing manually) and just get the DOS to do the ongoing water changes and they're are done. Most people don't want to make things any more complex than necessary. This is what BRS has shown in many videos and also has implemented on quite a few of their office tanks.
 
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Ditto

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@Terrance - Great points made, it will always come down to what are the users attempting to do, and how or what they are willing to do.

On the BRS video I just watched the GHL can easily do it this way by drawing X amount of water out, and place Y amount of water back in. We were discussing this on another thread about AWC when this was brought up and the pro and cons of doing it this way, and what safety measures you need to put in place for doing this. Apex has a great wizard that steps you through this step by step. For the GHL it would be done in 4 steps which you are not guided through like the Apex. I will dust off my DOS and hook it back up to my Apex and do a quick step by step comparison for the users to see.

@iamgant - Welcome to the GHL Family, if you have questions or issues please ask away the community is great here and very helpful!!
 

Why-Me

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@Terence I bought a used Apex lite with display controller 2x eb8 outlets, temp & ph probe. I'd like to use the second eb8 for my daughter's tank in another room. Do I just need aquabus cable, pm1 module, temp/ph probes to get that up and running? Will I also need to grab a second display controller for that tank as well? (I ask because I'm putting together a BRS list)
Lastly. Out of curiosity what would the limitations be comparing my apex lite to a brand spankin new apex? No salinity & no orp probes? Less real-time monitoring?
 

Terence

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@Terence I bought a used Apex lite with display controller 2x eb8 outlets, temp & ph probe. I'd like to use the second eb8 for my daughter's tank in another room. Do I just need aquabus cable, pm1 module, temp/ph probes to get that up and running? Will I also need to grab a second display controller for that tank as well? (I ask because I'm putting together a BRS list)
Lastly. Out of curiosity what would the limitations be comparing my apex lite to a brand spankin new apex? No salinity & no orp probes? Less real-time monitoring?

Yes. You are correct. PM1 and probes and adequate length Aquabus cable.

There are some great bargains out there on these legacy apex systems.

The current equivalent of the Apex Lite is the ApexEL. The EL not only has more computing power, but it can run all the latest and upcoming hardware (like Trident) as well as the Energy Bar 832 with power monitoring and 1Link connections, and has WiFi built in. Also, the pH probe is double junction (still waiting to hear if the GHL gives single or double junction probes). All of the gear (including the display) that you got with the Apex Lite, will work with the ApexEL.
 
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So if the goal of this thread is to offer some insight and data to help consumers make educated buying decisions, let's try and give details.

Another question I have not yet seen the answer to, are the probes (pH and ORP) that come with Profilux kits double-junction probes?
I am sorry should have posted this sooner, been busy finishing up the comparison charts. Plan to release two more this weekend (Powerbar comparisons, and Dosers). I am also working on posting some Web to Web Interface Comparisons so users have those additional details.

GHL only uses Double Junction and has been doing so since the beginning including with the previous controller the Profilux 3 released in 2009. For Apex I believe it been since 2017 (I will update the GHL and Apex base unit with this information for on double junction probes for PH Redox/ORP with release dates)

What is the difference between a single & double junction probe? (Per GHL Website)
The reference cell of a single junction probe only has a material similar to a wick (hereinafter referred to simply as “wick”) which is in direct contact with the solution to be measured. This is an essential part that enables the probe to function and also a part prone to disturbances.
The reference cell of a double junction probe has a wick that comes into contact with a second chamber filled with the same material as the reference cell. This second chamber also has a wick that is in direct contact with the solution to be measured. The second chamber slows down contamination, so double-connection probes can work reliably for up to 12 months or more if well maintained.
A double junction can also help protect the probe if the sample solution reacts and could form a solid sediment with the reference solution, clogging the wick and compromising its functionality.
Contamination can occur faster with a single junction probe than with a double junction probe, so a single junction probe has a shorter life.

DifferenceSingleJunctionDoubleJunctionProbe.jpg


GHL uses Digital Technology for the Temperature, I am not sure if that the same with Apex Temperature Probe is it Digital or Analog?
 

BZOFIQ

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I say 100 Feet because of the limitations of Ethernet...

Ethernet spec is limited to 100 meter or 328 feet....

That said, GHL might use this style of connector/cable and not necessarily use ethernet protocol for data communication so above limit may or may not apply.

Does GHL create a mesh network via ethernet? Does it internally assign IP addresses to its devices on said network?

Apex chose to use USB connector but not the USB standard data protocol.

Either way, you're right network cables are not only cheaper to obtain, they can be very quickly made using widely available crimpers. In-wall installation between different rooms/closets is also FAR easier vs pre-made apex cables.

I'm in that bucket now, so I'm running all possible cables inside the wall for whatever might come next.
 
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@BZOFIQ - thank you on correcting me. They use the Ethernet style cable but the protocol is not IP based not can the devices be plugged directly into a network port on a switch or router without damaging the pab connection on the device. I am researching distances now.

@tdhnry - thank you!!
 

BZOFIQ

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@Terence

While at it, can you please provide correct pinout for the 1link connections?

Judging by your posts above you've said that there are 5 low voltage DC connections so I'm assuming that using power part of the 1 link is possible.

Been looking for this info for a while now.
 

WWIII

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Wow man! Very nice job! I wouldn't be surprised if GHL makes another offering down the road sometime, but I really like the robust 5.1! I have 4 of them currently and each one runs a power strip off the "always on" outlet.

Thanks for continuing to do these breakdowns!
 

ingchr1

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@Ditto, the Powerbar 5.1 also has the socket that is dimmable. The fuse is for the dimmable socket. The illuminated reset/off switch is a circuit breaker.

One socket is permanent.

It also has overvoltage protection (surge OK).

I have no info on the Apex for comparison.
 
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@ingchr1 - Great Catch, I thought I posted all the pages, but I forgot two, also updated one of them to include the CB/Fuse. I edited the Orginal Post to include all 9 Pages and not 7 Pages.

@WWIII - Thank you!! Doser's chart is also on the way!!
 
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WWIII

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Hey @Ditto , do you know if the DOS and Maxi heads are the same? I've been looking around the internet (dangerous I know) and it looks like they use a honlite dosing head for the GHL and maybe the same for the Dos? I've been trying to find them cheaper, but it's hard when they are all over in Asia.
 

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I believe I may have done it in the past but in any event I would like to thank @Ditto for such an incredible and honest thread about user experience when switching between these controllers. Infinitely more useful than corporate marketing speech which we can always get in the respective websites anyway.

I would also like to add on something that is also an important part of ownership which is customer support. One of the blue caps on my Doser 2.1 broke. I sent an email to GHL today (Sunday) morning and Matthias himself answered within 5 min. After a couple of picture exchange Matthias asked for my address to send me 4 new covers. This is amazing and for me absolutely key and the reason I went with GHL. I live in Europe (Portugal). I am sure in the US Neptune Customer support is also great but in Europe I would be in the hands of intermediaries and from personal experience it never ends very well. So for me in Europe GHL gets a big plus (on top of the non availability of the EB8).
 
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@VJV - Thank You!! I hope this thread helps people see the differences that GHL And Apex has to offer. I am glad it has helped users see the differences in both products.

18 months later I have no regrets on my switch out and would do it again.

@WWIII - I am not sure but I will find out :)
 

Matthias Gross

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Hi
although most people here appreciate when the vendor does not interfere, I want to add a few things
(don't worry, I am not going to compare prices, I am sure every (future) customer is perfectly capable of doing a comparison his own)

- We had NEVER other probes than the double-junction version. Also ProfiLux 1 (at the beginning named "AquaLux") had them - first P 1 were sold in 1999!
- ProfiLux Aquatic Bus (PAB) is based on CAN, this is a super reliable real-time bus-system which is used for the communication of critical components in cars, trucks, busses, planes, etc.
PAB supports a safe connection of min. 100m (300ft) between PAB-devices - some use our systems literally in the "field"
- ProfiLux 4 has 3 internal slots (one of them only usable for cards which need no access to outside, like the wireless card PLM-PWC), I think I read here somewhere 2 slots
- lacks in the current version of the app/cloud/webinterface
yes, this is true, a few things are not yet implemented, but we are working on it
e.g. logbook and graphs for manually measured things: we had this already in the previous version of the cloud, when we changed to our uniform platform GHL Connect (same interface for app, cloud, webinterface) this disappeared - coding is now nearly done, will come back end of this week as beta
other things like firmware updates through GHL Connect will follow shortly
as said in another thread, GHL Connect will get all the features we know from GHL Control Center, plus some new extra features
we have updates for GHL Connect every 1 or 2 weeks, making very good progress in that area
-> this is all "only" software and can be changed/extended without problems later, the key is the future-proof and rock-solid hardware we have with the P4
 

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