Switching to < 6500K for growth, then back to > 10000K for color?

[oreo54]

pigments that T5s and LEDs can't provide because of the complete spectrum provided by halides.

Still get a kick out of statements like that..

 

[Spare time]

Appreciate the time it took to explain that; informative and not condecending, thank you (I was hearing crickets and worried I made another dud topic)
Anyway, truly not debating, just more confused by both experience/observation and the lack of clarity in the hobby with regard to coral growth and color; 2 different metrics of heath.

I have some rudimentary understanding wavelengths and propagation of visible light through different media’s like water vs air. I also have a beginners knowledge on trace elements vs color. But its my own experience using 5500K MH coupled with 2nd hand info coming from Asian/Paific growers reporting faster growth under warmer color temperatures .I’m only suggesting something else might be amiss and not as simple as providing bluer wavelengths of light (or omitting reds, greens and yellows.

Anyway, makes sense shallow reefs are over saturated. Also, you make me wonder about

The greens and yellows are important for the secondary pigments such dinoxanathin and peridinin (typically ranging between 450nm and 550nm for peak sensitivity. Here is a great paper listing some carotenoids (non chlorophyll photopigments (light reactors)) in some corals and such https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3164383/


I believe a spectrum from 380nm to 550nm would be best suited for our needs.


If someone can find me a paper regarding carotenoid regulation in corals under different wavelengths of light I would much appreciate it because I am curious if corals in captivity decrease certain carotenoids if provided only certain spectrums and if the other uses (such as anti-odixant) of the carotenoids is a strong enough reason for the corals to keep producing them

 

[Doctorgori]

What I love about these forums is its filled with smart people with intelligent questions, replies and rebuttals.. this is one good example of a tangential but relevant post within scope

The greens and yellows are important for the secondary pigments such dinoxanathin and peridinin (typically ranging between 450nm and 550nm for peak sensitivity. Here is a great paper listing some carotenoids (non chlorophyll photopigments (light reactors)) in some corals and such https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3164383/


I believe a spectrum from 380nm to 550nm would be best suited for our needs.


If someone can find me a paper regarding carotenoid regulation in corals under different wavelengths of light I would much appreciate it because I am curious if corals in captivity decrease certain carotenoids if provided only certain spectrums and if the other uses (such as anti-odixant) of the carotenoids is a strong enough reason for the corals to keep producing them

....but its also filled with Jethro Bodine types like me with 6th grade educations, see below
I attempted to read and comprehend the posted link to a scientific abstract and ran right into into this:

“Details of the structural elucidatio“. SAY WHAT? Dems fighting words in Cleveland

...Also: “esterification” and “Epigobiusxanthin“. ...Sounds expensive; I didn’t even attempt a lookup figuring Google could actually charge me for that
I’m going back in, I’ll reread and hopefully I can post something intelligent

 

[Spare time]

What I love about these forums is its filled with smart people with intelligent questions, replies and rebuttals.. this is one good example of a tangential but relevant post within scope


....but its also filled with Jethro Bodine types like me with 6th grade educations, see below
I attempted to read and comprehend the posted link to a scientific abstract and ran right into into this:

“Details of the structural elucidatio“. SAY WHAT? Dems fighting words in Cleveland

...Also: “esterification” and “Epigobiusxanthin“. ...Sounds expensive; I didn’t even attempt a lookup figuring Google could actually charge me for that
I’m going back in, I’ll reread and hopefully I can post something intelligent

Some of these types of papers make me think that I can come up with some sort of sciencey molecule name by just spamming random keys on my keyboard haha

 

[Daddy-o]

My Walt Disney. Thought I would ramp up growth with 6500k tropic t5s and 12 alk. This was the end result. BUMMER!

 

[A. grandis]

edit:

...

 

[A. grandis]

My Walt Disney. Thought I would ramp up growth with 6500k tropic t5s and 12 alk. This was the end result. BUMMER!

To achieve the results you see online you need to follow what they do.

 

[A. grandis]

...
My question remains however: if coloring is a temporary condition depending on surrounding lighting; why then does WWC, and other commercial operations still use 10K + and not 6500K given that 10K+ bulbs cost upwards 4X more per bulb. Heck you can cop a whole case of 6500K T5 under $80 easily at your local box retailer.
I know color sells, but if thats temporary, and given all the effort to maximize growth/health, seems a cheap bulb switch is more than worth it.

I haven’t read any new news on UV and other non-visible parts of solar emissions.

You will have amazing growth/health with any aquarium halide bulb:
65000K, 10000K, 14000K, 20000K.
Growth/health isn't only related to quality light though.

 

[Doctorgori]

You will have amazing growth/health with any aquarium halide bulb:
65000K, 10000K, 14000K, 20000K.
Growth/health isn't only related to quality light though.

Yeah I’m from the 90’s. > Ice cap ballast, VHO T8’s @ 6500K & actintic, 175W MH @ 5500K. I used Hort bulbs (to no surprise plenty of “Grow” stuff for sale near ASU...go figure) ..

My Walt Disney. Thought I would ramp up growth with 6500k tropic t5s and 12 alk. This was the end result. BUMMER!

I’ve had more than one setback from Alk spikes and power outages. My money is on riding alk where eagles dare. IME “daylight” color temps usually makes corals ugly, not kill em ... Might have been a compounded effect from multiple adjustments

Another thing that I “think” people mix up (not you per se) is I think of color temp as sort of composite reading of the visible light (in Kelvin’s). Its not the actual radiation/wave spectral measurement (in my laymen’s terms/understanding). I guess I’m saying color temp isn’t a good way to determine how much of the blue or red spectral component the emission contains.
Put a better way:

I know many frag farmers relied on 400w Ushio 6500k lamps for quick growth back in the day, but that may have been a matter of a useful full spectrum and tons of PAR vs the specific red/yellow bands it employed.

. basically eating a whole Cods just to get the benefits of the liver oil

 

[oreo54]

Another thing that I “think” people mix up (not you per se) is I think of color temp as sort of composite reading of the visible light (in Kelvin’s). Its not the actual radiation/wave spectral measurement (in my laymen’s terms/understanding). I guess I’m saying color temp isn’t a good way to determine how much of the blue or red spectral component the emission contains.

Not only that but in part. to MH's what they say it is is rarely even CLOSE to what the CCT measurements say it is.
Well at least in 14000k or greater range.

And color output (spectral balance) shifts depending on the ballast and of course age.
Check the charts:

Product Review: Spectral Analysis Of 250w Mogul Base Metal Halide Lamps - Part I

This is a 2-part series covering a number of new lamps that have recently hit the market.

reefs.com

Seems to not have always been this way. Iwasaki listed bulbs as "types" indicating blue white to "actinic".
Of course that has its own set of problems.. and seems almost random on their part.

Iwasaki HyluxBeam for Aquarium (Type B) [90°] x1
----------------------------------------

* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux : 7,300 lm
Radiant flux : 40,126 mW
PPF : 155 umol/s
TCP : 25640 K
CRI : 53
λp : 452 nm
Color : #8C98FF

K is only used as a "look factor" nowadays apparently i.e 20000k look ect.

 

[Doctorgori]

Well then I’ll probably in the near future do a frag tank build using a cheapo Hort fixture w/4 x 54W T5 6500K’s,
Still would like to see coral pics in aquariums under natural daylight

 

[Bpb]

@Doctorgori heres a handful of pics of my own tank from several years ago when I ran t5ho. I used a couple 6500k bulbs in my 8 bulb array and one day decided to shoot some shots with only those bulbs running. No other colors or supplements Just a pair of giesemann 6500k tropic t5ho bulbs running. Forgive the aiptasia.

 

[Doctorgori]

@bpd holymoley ! the colors are outstanding
edit: thank you

 

[Bpb]

Thank you I was very happy with the color as well. I really am not about the super blue life. Granted my full array wasn’t quite that warm colored, it certainly was a far cry from what is popular now

 

[Doctorgori]

Thank you I was very happy with the color as well. I really am not about the super blue life. Granted my full array wasn’t quite that warm colored, it certainly was a far cry from what is popular now

I’m guilty of posting those windex colored pic every now and then. I think my main tank is probably closer to 10k than 20K.

...Those pics show amazing color at closer to daylight ranges..

I think the research by Red Sea and the work of BRS Investigates has both educated me and at the same time: confused me. I still maintain that many hobbyist like myself have a hard time parsing out what color temps give the most “visual appeal” against what wavelengths achieve “biological” color enchantment/changes; two different things.

 

[Semisonyx]

I’m about to setup a coral quarantine/frag tank again. I’ve been considering using 6500k T5 bulbs and supplementing with a blue led strip.

 

[Doctorgori]

I’m about to setup a coral quarantine/frag tank again. I’ve been considering using 6500k T5 bulbs and supplementing with a blue led strip.

yup, I am seriously thinking about a side by side BRS Investigates type experiment 6500k vs 20k ....my guess is tie or by a nose .... not 100% sure who the winner would be ... does anyone know if they make that 4ft 33g anymore?.

 

[Bpb]

yup, I am seriously thinking about a side by side BRS Investigates type experiment 6500k vs 20k ....my guess is tie or by a nose .... not 100% sure who the winner would be ... does anyone know if they make that 4ft 33g anymore?.

I’ll honestly be willing to bet the difference will be negligible if you’re able to tune the intensity to be identical