Symbiodinium. Got any treatment ideas?

[ScottB]

OK the H2O2 test is ON. However I have reduced the dosage amount significantly to a "common" daily treatment level I've seen around here of 1ml per 10 gallons.

So rough math is .04ml/liter which -- in case you are wondering -- is 1 drop of 3% H2O2.

The before picture:

Well the H2O2 test was another fail. If anything, the stuff actually liked H2O2. It followed the same pattern as other tests where it gathered some bubbles and rose to the top, but after2-3 days in H2O2 it actually regained it's long stringy form.

I have noticed this stuff does not need a lot of light like my ostreopsis preferred.

Who is ready to try fluconazole? Somebody in one of the other threads suggested it due to the presence of ergosterol.

 

[bishoptf]

Well the H2O2 test was another fail. If anything, the stuff actually liked H2O2. It followed the same pattern as other tests where it gathered some bubbles and rose to the top, but after2-3 days in H2O2 it actually regained it's long stringy form.

I have noticed this stuff does not need a lot of light like my ostreopsis preferred.

Who is ready to try fluconazole? Somebody in one of the other threads suggested it due to the presence of ergosterol.

Well thats a bummer about the h202, fluconazole is supposed to work on byropsis and other algae although you have to leave it in for awhile for the other algae types. I do not have any on hand but supposedly its fairly reef safe, some reports of acros not being happy, but I do not have any of those. Let me know if you go down that path let me know, I will look to order some.

 

[ScottB]

Well thats a bummer about the h202, fluconazole is supposed to work on byropsis and other algae although you have to leave it in for awhile for the other algae types. I do not have any on hand but supposedly its fairly reef safe, some reports of acros not being happy, but I do not have any of those. Let me know if you go down that path let me know, I will look to order some.

I have personally seen it work perfectly on bryopsis and have seen it completely wipe out a tank in 48 hours too. I have a bazillion $ tied up in acropora so it is not really a viable option for me, but keep us posted if you opt for that treatment.

 

[bishoptf]

I have personally seen it work perfectly on bryopsis and have seen it completely wipe out a tank in 48 hours too. I have a bazillion $ tied up in acropora so it is not really a viable option for me, but keep us posted if you opt for that treatment.

So what are you thinking your next steps are going to be, are there any other options you are looking into?

 

[ScottB]

So what are you thinking your next steps are going to be, are there any other options you are looking into?

Honestly still a bit puzzled by it. Still basting every other day and it returns about the same each time. Can't figure out:
a) Who might eat this stuff (thinking Foxface as they eat everything but coral)
b) Who competes with this stuff
c) Why it seems so happy in 2 of my four tanks but not the other two. My display has a lot. One of my frag tanks (LPS) has some and is connected to two SPS tanks that have none. Tank parameters across all are the same.

ALK 7.5-8
NO3 10-15
PO4 .7 - .15

ICP all nominal except for high lithium.
WCs 15% every 2 weeks.

I may move a foxface up from my SPS frag to my display and see if that makes a difference. I need a big peacemaker in there anyway. This is the only obvious difference between the infested and un-infested tanks.

 

[bishoptf]

Honestly still a bit puzzled by it. Still basting every other day and it returns about the same each time. Can't figure out:
a) Who might eat this stuff (thinking Foxface as they eat everything but coral)
b) Who competes with this stuff
c) Why it seems so happy in 2 of my four tanks but not the other two. My display has a lot. One of my frag tanks (LPS) has some and is connected to two SPS tanks that have none. Tank parameters across all are the same.

ALK 7.5-8
NO3 10-15
PO4 .7 - .15

ICP all nominal except for high lithium.
WCs 15% every 2 weeks.

I may move a foxface up from my SPS frag to my display and see if that makes a difference. I need a big peacemaker in there anyway. This is the only obvious difference between the infested and un-infested tanks.

Yeah it doesnt appear to be a major issue for me right now, I posted this in another forum and one of the guys chimed in that he fought the same thing here is his input:

Looks like chrysophyte to me. It loves the dead rock for some reason.

I battled it for quite a while. I can tell you what worked for me and what didn’t. I started with manual removal and suctioning into filter sock daily but it always grew back within a day or 2.

Things that didn’t work for me.
Black out.
Dosing bottled bac (MB7, waste Away, ZEObac)
Fluconazole
GFO to remove silica

helped:
Manual removal (siphon into filter sock daily)
Dosing NO3 and PO4 to keep levels 5-10 and 0.05-0.1
Vibrant

The final blow was adding real live rock and live sand from the keys, while doing manual removal, dosing Vibrant and dosing no3 and po4. I still did water changes.

I'm actually dosing vibrant, pretty sure you don't want to go down that path with all the corals you have, but I don't have many and already had used it. I've read all the horror stories and it appears to just be an algaecide vs bacteria.

Just thought I would post and let you know, update when you find some success etc with your approach.

 

[ScottB]

Yeah it doesnt appear to be a major issue for me right now, I posted this in another forum and one of the guys chimed in that he fought the same thing here is his input:



I'm actually dosing vibrant, pretty sure you don't want to go down that path with all the corals you have, but I don't have many and already had used it. I've read all the horror stories and it appears to just be an algaecide vs bacteria.

Just thought I would post and let you know, update when you find some success etc with your approach.

Roger that. Keep me posted on Vibrant too.

 

[ScottB]

Well still grasping at straws here. Just placed an order for some Gulfliverock.com to get some new microfauna vibes going.

It is neither getting worse nor better. I still feel like it is going to just go away at some point but basting every other day is so annoying. I may also try dosing some phyto.

I still cannot get any algae to grow even with 10/.1 NO3 and PO4.

The only visible difference between the two tanks that have it and the two that don't is the relative health of coralline. And the presence of foxface rabbits.

 

[LRT]

Hi Scott have you tried or do you have the ability to set up a diy turf scrubber?
I'm pretty sure I've dealt with this as well as pretty much everything else one could possibly imagine over the last year.
Whats interesting is I recently set up diy turf skimmer and its gone through a bunch of stages from cyano to who knows what but mostly bacterial and now its growing a brownish green algae on it. Point is the nasties have seriously cut back on my racks and shallow tables to only a few isolated spots and seems like whatever is growing on rack now is starting to outcompete the nasties.

 

[ScottB]

Hi Scott have you tried or do you have the ability to set up a diy turf scrubber?
I'm pretty sure I've dealt with this as well as pretty much everything else one could possibly imagine over the last year.
Whats interesting is I recently set up diy turf skimmer and its gone through a bunch of stages from cyano to who knows what but mostly bacterial and now its growing a brownish green algae on it. Point is the nasties have seriously cut back on my racks and shallow tables to only a few isolated spots and seems like whatever is growing on rack now is starting to outcompete the nasties.

Hey thanks for chiming in. Really scratching my head with this stuff. I have a decent sized refugium that grows pretty fast on my frag system, but no room for one on my display.

In my frag system (3 connected tanks) I have one tank with a smidge of cyano, one with coralline only, and one with coralline and this symbiodinium. Just bizarre.

 

[bishoptf]

Hey thanks for chiming in. Really scratching my head with this stuff. I have a decent sized refugium that grows pretty fast on my frag system, but no room for one on my display.

In my frag system (3 connected tanks) I have one tank with a smidge of cyano, one with coralline only, and one with coralline and this symbiodinium. Just bizarre.

Yeah I'm still seeing small pockets of dino's and then this stuff and some super neon green cyano and diatoms on the glass, lol. I am dosing some vibrant once a week but it doesnt appear to have made a big difference, snails, fish and other inverts so far are doing ok. Wish I could figure out what to do in order to move past this phase.

 

[ScottB]

Yeah I'm still seeing small pockets of dino's and then this stuff and some super neon green cyano and diatoms on the glass, lol. I am dosing some vibrant once a week but it doesnt appear to have made a big difference, snails, fish and other inverts so far are doing ok. Wish I could figure out what to do in order to move past this phase.

Far from having it figured out myself. What are your nutrients like? Mine are 10/.1 NO3 and PO4.

Might spend some time trapping a 1 Spot foxface from my frag and moving it into the DT to see if he will clean it up. The tank he is in now has ZERO symbio and is connected to another couple other tanks -- one with Symbio and one without. The only "pattern" I can see is:

IF foxface, THEN no symbio.

 

[ScottB]

Reluctant to call for the "Win" just yet on my display, but they are not coming back nearly so fast now.

The only things that I can think of that changed...

a) Added 5 Bimaculata anthias and a little more fish food to keep them going
b) Have not been dosing any MB7 or Pro Bio bacteria
c) Was very consistent about basting
d) My salinity had drifted down slightly 1.024 and raised that back to 1.026

 

[LRT]

Hey Scott. Do you have a rock that you can pull out and scrub and give a quick high pressure ro or tap water rinse?
I've been battling just about every bit of nasty these last few months after letting my di burn out.
Out of pure frustration I scrubbed a cpl rocks. Hooked up a high pressure spray head to bath tub faucet. Matched my aquarium water temp and gave fast high pressure spray making sure I got in all the nooks and crannies. Anyhow to my amazement not only did it work but coraline is starting to grow where the nasties where. Ive done it a few times now. Sometimes the coraline shows up over night.
I'm super interested what will happen for you ig you have a test rock.
I just did quite a few more rocks yesterday.
I have seneye hooked up and had absolutely 0 fluctuation on ammonia or ph or anything for that matter.
Results are simply a high reduction in nutrients and fast production of coraline so far.

 

[ScottB]

Hey Scott. Do you have a rock that you can pull out and scrub and give a quick high pressure ro or tap water rinse?
I've been battling just about every bit of nasty these last few months after letting my di burn out.
Out of pure frustration I scrubbed a cpl rocks. Hooked up a high pressure spray head to bath tub faucet. Matched my aquarium water temp and gave fast high pressure spray making sure I got in all the nooks and crannies. Anyhow to my amazement not only did it work but coraline is starting to grow where the nasties where. Ive done it a few times now. Sometimes the coraline shows up over night.
I'm super interested what will happen for you ig you have a test rock.
I just did quite a few more rocks yesterday.
I have seneye hooked up and had absolutely 0 fluctuation on ammonia or ph or anything for that matter.
Results are simply a high reduction in nutrients and fast production of coraline so far.

Thanks for chiming in with your experience. It seems we are in the minority with this "stuff".

I have just the rock in mind for this experiment. It is the only one in the tank without a bunch of acros glued to it. I will try some version of your suggestion upon it and report back.

In my earlier post I reported some progress. But can now report regression so I am open to shaking things a bit.

 

[sfin52]

Thanks for chiming in with your experience. It seems we are in the minority with this "stuff".

I have just the rock in mind for this experiment. It is the only one in the tank without a bunch of acros glued to it. I will try some version of your suggestion upon it and report back.

In my earlier post I reported some progress. But can now report regression so I am open to shaking things a bit.

Try removing them siphon out through a 5 micron sock and putting the water back into the tank. Its a lot of work but it physically removes it. Instead of blasting it off the rocks back into the water colum.

 

[ScottB]

Try removing them siphon out through a 5 micron sock and putting the water back into the tank. Its a lot of work but it physically removes it. Instead of blasting it off the rocks back into the water colum.

My current method is to drop a canister filter in the tank with a polishing filter, and then blast all the rock with a Sicce 3. Some of the gunk is left behind, rolling around on the sand bed. But it is a pretty quick process I can tolerate every other day or so.

I ordered some gulfliverock a couple weeks ago and letting it clean up a little in a lighted tub along with a dead Marco base rock. I will replace an existing stack of rock with this in hopes the diversity will turn the tide a bit.

I am not noticing much if any impact from this stuff in terms of nutrient reduction, toxicity or coral loss. With the possible exception of coralline loss on the affected rock areas.

 

[bishoptf]

My current method is to drop a canister filter in the tank with a polishing filter, and then blast all the rock with a Sicce 3. Some of the gunk is left behind, rolling around on the sand bed. But it is a pretty quick process I can tolerate every other day or so.

I ordered some gulfliverock a couple weeks ago and letting it clean up a little in a lighted tub along with a dead Marco base rock. I will replace an existing stack of rock with this in hopes the diversity will turn the tide a bit.

I am not noticing much if any impact from this stuff in terms of nutrient reduction, toxicity or coral loss. With the possible exception of coralline loss on the affected rock areas.

Any updates? Still fighting something very similar but it's stringy but is on glass etc, under the scope looks like the same thing, just not sure what to do in order to kick it to the curb. Was hoping you figured something out.

Thanks

 

[Zoajohn]

If this is in fact chrysophytes (or something similar enough), fluconazole has worked twice for me in clearing it. 30g sps tank, no losses.

 

[ScottB]

Any updates? Still fighting something very similar but it's stringy but is on glass etc, under the scope looks like the same thing, just not sure what to do in order to kick it to the curb. Was hoping you figured something out.

Thanks

Sorry I have been remiss in updating my own thread. No good news yet, but a quick review of MORE things that didn't seem to make much difference:

a) Let nutrients run up a bit with the new anthias and extra feedings. PO4/NO3 of .23/20 got me nothing but a little GHA. No change on the gunk really.

b) Afterwards, decided to to go the other direction with some vodka for NO3 and light lanthanum chloride dose for PO4 got me to .14/4 as of today. So the rest of the vodka is for me I think. Might try another lanthanum dose now that NO3 is down. This tank (versus the frag) has always been steadier with moderate nutrients, so will hover in the 5/.08 range and watch for a bit.

c) While the separate frag tank has actually been improving wrt this infestation, I have too much pH and ALK noise to suggest anything definitive. Nutrients generally are lower over the period but pH in particular has been all over the spectrum with APEX yelling at me overnight. Working on finding a suspected CO2 leak on my CaRx. CO2 measurement device arriving tonight. Back to dosing buckets of two part for now.

So to wrap up my current speculations:
1) Higher nutrients are unhelpful.
2) Foxface rabbitfish live in the 2 tanks without this pest. Absent in the other two.

If this is in fact chrysophytes (or something similar enough), fluconazole has worked twice for me in clearing it. 30g sps tank, no losses.

I am only too happy to hear input on this seemingly rare situation. You are either a repeat on the Fluc suggestion or the second. I have been a first person witness to a Fluc driven SPS wipeout so this option freaks me out too much. I've seen it work on bryopsis really well also without any collateral damage. I keep too much fancy-a** named tenuis for me to attempt tho. Homewrecker, SCOP, Cherry B, and a ton of POTO stuff.

Do you have any micro pics of your ugly stuff by chance?