Taking on a difficult challenge (2 expert fish)

[carlson]

I really like how friendly R2R is, but I feel like this whole thread could be used in a campaign against the hobby. What in the world were you thinking? Why would you order an idol with your current set up? Sigh....

What difference is it going to make if I try keeping a moorish idol vs. someone else. >90% of the moorish idols that get shipped out every day don't last more than a week and me buying one is not going to make a difference, so that is why this thread is not being used as a campaign against the hobby..as far the copper band, I have a fair chance with it. Once you get them to eat they're great fish, and if I work at it I have a fair shot at introducing him into my tank while avoiding aggression. If I were you, I would wait until I have been a member of r2r for more than a few days and have more than 10 likes to start jabbing at other people...

 

[fishbox]

Actually, the competition for food aids in getting difficult fish to eat, as it sees others eating and then begins to much such behavior. Creating a feeding frenzy is one of the best methods to get stubborn fish to eat.

I've never looked at it this way. I've always read that it was better to isolate finicky eaters to get them to eat. I think you should start a thread taking a poll on whether or not people feel it's better isolate finicky eaters or throw them to the wolves. If you do please tag me in it. I would do it myself but because I use the app I cannot create polls

 

[carlson]

Can you post a video of it's breathing? I can't see it in the one you posted, but I don't think there's anything wrong with his swim patterns in that video. Also, a good pic of the white spot would help but as mentioned above, beak injuries are common with transport of these guys. It could possibly be Lymphocystis which is very common with stressed out Copperbands but I think that usually starts on the fins (but I'm not sure). It's usually harmless and goes away on its own.

It's actually not breathing heavy anymore since it's been out if the qt tank!

 

[Brian1f1]

What difference is it going to make if I try keeping a moorish idol vs. someone else. >90% of the moorish idols that get shipped out every day don't last more than a week and me buying one is not going to make a difference, so that is why this thread is not being used as a campaign against the hobby..as far the copper band, I have a fair chance with it. Once you get them to eat they're great fish, and if I work at it I have a fair shot at introducing him into my tank while avoiding aggression. If I were you, I would wait until I have been a member of r2r for more than a few days and have more than 10 likes to start jabbing at other people...

Struck a nerve huh? Number of likes... account age... grow up. I’ve been in the hobby for 18 years my friend, and I’ll call you out for damaging the hobby’s reputation by acting irresponsibly if I feel it’s warranted. You never had a fair chance with the idol. Actually, you had virtually no chance with it with your set up at all, and I think you knew that when you ordered it. Your logic that it was going to die anyway is hopelessly flawed and irresponsible, and really misses the greater point anyway. I do hope others read this thread and don’t repeat the same mistakes over, and over, and over, and over again...

 

[carlson]

Struck a nerve huh? Number of likes... account age... grow up. I’ve been in the hobby for 18 years my friend, and I’ll call you out for damaging the hobby’s reputation by acting irresponsibly if I feel it’s warranted. You never had a fair chance with the idol. Actually, you had virtually no chance with it with your set up at all, and I think you knew that when you ordered it. Your logic that is was going to die anyway is hopelessly flawed and irresponsible, and really misses the greater point anyway. I do hope others read this thread and don’t repeat the same mistakes over, and over, and over, and over again...

Whatever "Brian1f1" apparently you didn't read my first post where I stated that I already knew this was a bad idea.

 

[Brian1f1]

Whatever "Brian1f1" apparently you didn't read my first post where I stated that I already knew this was a bad idea.

I did read it “carlson”. The fact that you knew it was a bad idea and did it anyway doesn’t make it better, it makes it worse. Ignorance that leads to an irresponsible act isn’t something to be celebrated when it happens, but it can be understood, and hopefully learned from. Knowing that something is irresponsible and doing it anyway, to perfectly predicable results, is something else altogether. It matters.

 

[carlson]

I did read it “carlson”. The fact that you knew it was a bad idea and did it anyway doesn’t make it better, it makes it worse. Ignorance that leads to an irresponsible act isn’t something to be celebrated when it happens, but it can be understood, and hopefully learned from. Knowing that something is irresponsible and doing it anyway, to perfectly predicable results, is something else altogether. It matters.

I don't think anybody is searching for a life coach on r2r, but thanks anyways.

 

[pcon]

I think if I had a qt tank that stayed running all the time and had stable parameters it would have worked better. I decided to put him in a chamber in my sump thats big enough for his size (he's only like an inch big rn) and sure enough he started picking and eating baby brine again. So from here, I feel like my options are to keep introducing different foods to him and hopefully he'll last long enough on the brine to adapt to another food source.

Again with an expert only fish you need to Plan Every Part. For "Expert" fish you should have an established conditioning tank, that is up and running that acts as a quarantine tank, it can be treated with most common medications except copper. This tank should be seeded with pods, ample micro alge growth and sponges as the finicky eater needs. A peaceful tank mate can also help the process. Too much work: then don't get an expert fish.

Eventually if he doesn't eat ill have to put him in the dt, maybe that will trigger it

It has only been a couple days, especially after a rough long transit, that fish just needs left alone to settle. They often do the glassing behavior after a couple days in new surroundings as they get used to the new tank, they often stop eating during this time. Now you have dumped him in i can only hope you don't kill the rest of your fish, in this ill conceived adventure.

What difference is it going to make if I try keeping a moorish idol vs. someone else. >90% of the moorish idols that get shipped out every day don't last more than a week and me buying one is not going to make a difference, so that is why this thread is not being used as a campaign against the hobby..as far the copper band, I have a fair chance with it. Once you get them to eat they're great fish, and if I work at it I have a fair shot at introducing him into my tank while avoiding aggression. If I were you, I would wait until I have been a member of r2r for more than a few days and have more than 10 likes to start jabbing at other people...

Woah buddy, you were the one who decided to be, blatantly and publicly, irresponsible here. You have no right to complain about the people calling you out on it. You purchased two fish which you yourself say are expert only, yet it's obvious to most readers of this thread that you did not adequately research these fish, that you are woefully unprepared for any expert only fish let alone the specific requirements of the fish you purchased.

Getting them to eat is no simple task, also getting them over any diseases which may now be infecting the rest of your tank. "I have a fair shot......avoiding aggression" You will be lucky if you avoid aggression with a large established tang, in a tank that is barely large enough for either let alone both. In fact this is something that most resources on the Copper Band explicitly advise against. Further common fishkeeping advice is to add your more aggressive fish after adding your more peaceful fish, Tangs being notoriously aggressive and territorial, doubly so to grazing conspecifics.

You said it yourself these are "Expert Fish" and we are seeing the mistakes that make them have this reputation. That rightfully upsets people here. I for one as do many other want to see you succeed, and will lend our advice where possible, but you cannot complain about your well deserved flack.

 

[Brian1f1]

I don't think anybody is searching for a life coach on r2r, but thanks anyways.

I am a mental health professional, but not a life coach (but I wasn’t therapizing you, I was trying to wake you up). Anyway, I hope you can open your mind little by little and learn from this despite your best efforts to rationalize away your responsibility to be an ethical hobbyist. I think it’ll come with time. I was young and carefree in this when I started out too. Good luck!

 

[Lowell Lemon]

@pcon and @Brian1f1,
I think you are being a little harsh here since carlson works at a public aquarium. He planned to donate the fish if things did not work out. It would be nice if you would read the original post before making a new member feel bad for their choice. He did have a plan for the Morish Idol and the Copper Band if his tank did not work out. How is that irresponsible or unreasonable given the overall scope of this hobby. You both come off a little too strong in your posts. By the way living is learning and not everyone follows the same path in life. Brian1f1, I would expect more understanding from a mental health professional. It is easier to catch flys with honey than vinegar if you understand the metaphor. A good day to all!

 

[eatbreakfast]

@pcon and @Brian1f1,
I think you are being a little harsh here since carlson works at a public aquarium. He planned to donate the fish if things did not work out. It would be nice if you would read the original post before making a new member feel bad for their choice. He did have a plan for the Morish Idol and the Copper Band if his tank did not work out. How is that irresponsible or unreasonable given the overall scope of this hobby. You both come off a little too strong in your posts. By the way living is learning and not everyone follows the same path in life. Brian1f1, I would expect more understanding from a mental health professional. It is easier to catch flys with honey than vinegar if you understand the metaphor. A good day to all!

His plans to donate the fish were, not if it didn't work out, but rather if they were too successful and got too big.

There are accounts of people having success with these fish and a common theme is appropriate tank size, appropriate diet, and appropriate tankmates. The op failed on 2/3 of these basic needs for the MI.

Established tangs are known to behave aggressively toward other laterally compressed fish and puffers are known to nip long flowing fins.

Moorish idols also roam and get big. Bigger than should be done in a 75g.

Living and learning is great, but when other lives are involved there is a responsibility involved as well.

 

[Ento-Reefer]

I think sometimes it is the way in which people word their posts that makes people defensive and hurt feelings end up being the result.
I didn’t offer much in the way of advice because I don’t have much experience with these two fish. The op seemed to have researched and wanted to give it a good try. Sometimes we learn best through personal experience and hope the fish don’t suffer the consequences. I don’t think there are too many of us that can say we never lost fish while we were learning. The important thing is to learn from our mistakes.

I hope the copperband makes it for you. Just keep offering lots of good food and keep water quality high.

 

[Brian1f1]

@pcon and @Brian1f1,
I think you are being a little harsh here since carlson works at a public aquarium. He planned to donate the fish if things did not work out. It would be nice if you would read the original post before making a new member feel bad for their choice. He did have a plan for the Morish Idol and the Copper Band if his tank did not work out. How is that irresponsible or unreasonable given the overall scope of this hobby. You both come off a little too strong in your posts. By the way living is learning and not everyone follows the same path in life. Brian1f1, I would expect more understanding from a mental health professional. It is easier to catch flys with honey than vinegar if you understand the metaphor. A good day to all!

Just because I’m a mental health professional doesn’t mean I need to be gentle about or accepting of gross irresponsibility. I only mentioned the very general parameters of my career because OP attempted to discredit me with an insult about life coaching. It’s largley irrelevant, although I see you’ve now tried to use it in a similar fashion to OP although with a greater emphasis on shaming away the painful truth of OP’s actions that I refused to silently observe. We all read the post. His plan was to be extremely irresponsible from day one. The fact that he works at a public aquarium only highlights how willfully stupid this all was. I understand, some people just don’t like conflict, to the point of complacency, rationalizing, or even admonishing or shaming others for refusing to gently nod at public and unethical acts. I’m not that guy, I remain steadfastly opposed to looking the other way, I’m sorry if that makes you or anyone else uncomfortable.

 

[carlson]

Just because I’m a mental health professional doesn’t mean I need to be gentle about or accepting of gross irresponsibility. I only mentioned the very general parameters of my career because OP attempted to discredit me with an insult about life coaching. It’s largley irrelevant, although I see you’ve now tried to use it in a similar fashion to OP although with a greater emphasis on shaming away the painful truth of OP’s actions that I refused to silently observe. We all read the post. His plan was to be extremely irresponsible from day one. The fact that he works at a public aquarium only highlights how willfully stupid this all was. I understand, some people just don’t like conflict, to the point of complacency, rationalizing, or even admonishing or shaming others for refusing to gently nod at public and unethical acts. I’m not that guy, I remain steadfastly opposed to looking the other way, I’m sorry if that makes you or anyone else uncomfortable.

Mental health professional, or a troll? [emoji42]

 

[carlson]

Happy Easter everyone, I hope your enjoying time with your families.

 

[Brian1f1]

Mental health professional, or a troll?

Nothing I’ve said was trolling, it’s all been as sincere as it gets, you just don’t like it. Cognitive dissonance is a very powerful thing my friend. Have a good holiday.

 

[carlson]

Nothing I’ve said was trolling, it’s all been as sincere as it gets, you just don’t like it. Cognitive dissonance is a very powerful thing my friend. Have a good holiday.

I never believed I was in the right, I never expected this plan to work well in the first place, it's called money burning a hole in my pocket..

 

[carlson]

But the more I reply to this conversation the more I realize it's not going anywhere so next time I decide to do something dumb I want put anything on r2r about it.

 

[Ento-Reefer]

I never believed I was in the right, I never expected this plan to work well in the first place, it's called money burning a hole in my pocket..

I say this because I truly hope next time this happens you will think twice. Animals deserve better then just purchasing them on a whim because we have extra money. I didn’t think this was why you had purchased the fish. I thought you were looking for a challenge and had thought this out better. I can’t really support that line of thinking either.

 

[carlson]

I say this because I truly hope next time this happens you will think twice. Animals deserve better then just purchasing them on a whim because we have extra money. I didn’t think this was why you had purchased the fish. I thought you were looking for a challenge and had thought this out better. I can’t really support that line of thinking either.

I had done a good bit of research on moorish idols and I had a copperband before in the past for a year before my tank crashed while I was on spring break.