Discussion in 'Fish Discussion' started by 4FordFamily, Sep 29, 2015.

Tang Aggression - Understanding and Combating

  1. Huff747

    Huff747 Active Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    So, I finally have a bigger tank (125) and I’m starting to do some tang dreaming as I work on setting it up. Do I add any non-tang fish first and do tangs last? Thinking a dwarf angel or two, maybe clowns, I really like my Midas blenny in my 40gallon so maybe one of those and perhaps a wrasse or two.

    And when doing qt, if say I don’t have a really big qt, can I qt them separately so long as I add them to the display at the same time so nobody has set up shop before anybody else?

    Thanks.
     

  2. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Tangs together is ideal, adding other fish first may work well, but depending on the tangs may be unnecessary.

    Add docile tangs first, aggressive last if you split them up. I bought a 55 gal QT on Craigslist and bought small tangs, so I could do them at once.
     
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  3. Huff747

    Huff747 Active Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    Thanks. Since it’s a 125 (6ft) I’m looking/hoping to do a trio of Yellow, Scopas, Purple. I do now have a 40gallon for QT so I should be able to do them together but was partly worried about not being able to find the trio all at the same time so maybe having to QT 2 and then get the third a week or two later when I can find it and run it through a separate QT tank. But I’d hold them in QT until they’re all ready to go in the display so that they can be added to the display together. As I look around I never seem to see all 3 available at the same time.

    Are those 3 a reasonable goal for a 125? Would of course like more but not sure what else I could should consider and don’t think I can realistically get a larger tank in the space available.
     
  4. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! R2R Supporter Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Big shout out to @4FordFamily thanks for helping me work though my problematic very aggressive powder brown tang! Jason made the recommendation that I add a large (5"+) desjardini sailfin into my DT. He has combated every flare up between my Achilles and powder brown immediately ever since they moved from 2 separate QT tanks into main display last week! Thanks man! Major tank boss.
     
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  5. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Glad our plan worked! That powder brown was going to be trouble if you had taken the smaller Desjardini. Glad we made the trade, harmony is a beautiful thing!
     
  6. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    I think it’s reasonable, buy them smaller. All three are relatively slow growers. If you really pushed it, a smaller bristlooth tang like a Tomini or a small acanthurus like a convict might work as a 4th. 4 small tangs in a 40B qt can and has worked for us in the past. Larger, not so much. Keep them 3” or smaller.

    You’ll need to skim very heavily for a 125 with that stock, so buy an grossly oversized skimmer and combine with other nutrient export methods :)

    I think all are available on Live Aquaria now, or af least are frequently available together IME
     
  7. Huff747

    Huff747 Active Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    Thanks again. Really appreciate the time. Hoping a Reef Octopus 8" Classic 200INT Skimmer is oversized enough? They rate it for 250 gallons, BRS recommends for up to 160 gallons. I do also plan to run a refugium.

    I'll keep the Tomini or similar in mind but I may just be happy with the three and go with something else. I like my midas blenny so maybe one of those for this tank as well or a dwarf angel, and my youngest really likes the black and white clowns so perhaps a pair of those for this tank since we have the standard clowns in the current tank.
     
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  8. ReefguyEric

    ReefguyEric Member

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    I have a 180 with a just a blonde male naso looking to put in some more tangs in thinking of a mimic,yellow, sailfin, yellow belly, maybe a purple or powder brown any suggestions recommendations will help thanks.
     
  9. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Naso, hippo, and sailfin will eventually outgrow a 180, especially the naso. It can be done for awhile if they’re small Fish.? That mix could work but be careful with the purple and sailfin — they’d need to be added simultaneously.
     
  10. ReefguyEric

    ReefguyEric Member

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    If I decided not to get a purple or powder brown would I just be able to put them in 1 at a time or pairs
     
  11. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    It’s a risk later. You never know
     
  12. HairyGary

    HairyGary Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

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    I want to add a single tang to a wrasse dominant tank I am setting up. My 9 yr old is pushing for a powder blue (smaller) but know they can get nasty but am curious if that is toward other tangs or just in general? It would be going in 93 cube. Other possible options are Chevron, Mimic, Flame fin, or white tail bristle tooth.
     
  13. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Hello, powder blues really need a 6 foot tank as a minimum size, even when small. 5 feet would be suitable perhaps until 3 inches, but still not ideal.

    Chevron will outgrow it as well. A mimic would outgrow it rather quickly, their minimum tank size should be a 120, IME.

    I’d go with the white tail bristletooth or the flame fin/Tomini :)

    Also, tangs are usually nasty to fish with similar diets or shapes— so butterflies are often targets, other tangs, angels, and algae-grazing blennies.
     
  14. HairyGary

    HairyGary Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Thanks. Any others that would work?
     
  15. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Most bristlooth tangs, other than chevron which get very large :)
     
  16. HairyGary

    HairyGary Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Thanks.

    I added this to the other thread but should be here.

    Based on the recommendations here, I'm looking at a White Tail BT to go into 93 cube with a couple of wrasse now but a bunch more wrasse and possible anthias down the line. Pro and cons? I feel like I've read more con that pro for aggression. It would be lone tang. Thoughts? Fish by fish basis?
     
  17. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! R2R Supporter Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    If you go with White tail. I'd be curious to know how it goes. I love my Kole tang. And seriously considered a white tail at one time I already have 8 tangs that get along, so I'd hate to change their current chemistry.
     
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  18. mdrobc13

    mdrobc13 Member

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    Okay...here's my dilema..or question or plan. :)
    Have a 220g mixed reef established now going on 8+ months and doing well. Everything is controlled by Apex and 4 MP40/MP10s for flow plus a Gyre 180 so plenty of flow. Sump is a Trigger Systems Amytherst 34" and skimming is done with a Bubble Magnus Curve D8 with return via refugium and Reef Octopus x2 DC return pumps. So plenty of flow and current and tank is stable. Am using the Triton method too and all is well going on 90+ days with stable ph, alk, temp, Nitrate/Nitrite/NH3/Pho/Calcium etc.

    Stocking tang wise currently is: 4 Yellow tangs added at the same time last Sept/Oct (2 remain - other 2 didn't make it thru QT); then 2 Hippo Tangs (2" each) added last Oct - 1 survived/smaller one died mysteriously over Xmas holidays after it stopped eating; survivor is healthy and about 4"; One Sailfin tang 3" and 1 Purple tang 4" added at the same time in early Nov, then finally 1 small Clown Tang 2.5" and larger Powder Blue Tang 3.5" (after 5 weeks of QT w/copper) in mid Nov after the PT and Sailfin were added. ALL tangs got along fine. No issues. Tank has plenty of Live Rock w/numerous caves and flow thru isles. Other inhabitants include 2 maroon clownfish (small), 2 O. clownfish (small), Rock Beauty Angel 3" (added in Oct), Blue Face Angel - juv 3.5" - added in Aug (1st fish), 2 diamond gobies (med), 8 green chromis (schooling nicely), 1 Rusty Angel 3" - added Oct/Nov and med Fiji Damsel - 2nd added back in Aug). Most recent addition is 3.5-4" long Blue Jaw Trigger - added last week and 1 adult Angularis Angel (4.5" long).

    My Powder Blue recently succumbed to ich in Dec after I tried to add a med Majestic Angel (this was prior to getting the Blue Jaw and the Angularis) When I added the Majestic over Thanksgiving, the PBT went nuts and harassed him so bad that he kept him at the upper right corner of the tank almost 24/7. As soon as he saw he fight was on....rescued the Majestic after about a week or so and put him back in QT but he succumbed. Clown Tang never bothered him at all or any other additions. PBT then succumbed to ich outbreak along with I think one of the smaller Hippo tangs which previously was doing fine and had gone unbothered. So lost both PBT, Hippo, and Majestic at that point. All others doing well.

    Tried a Naso tang in Jan that got over New Years day/holiday sales but he was too large (6" w/streamers) and just wasn't happy in the tank given the rock work and space even though its a 72" long tank. Returned him to get a smaller fish and tried a 3" convict tang earlier this month that my wife got me for an anniversary present but the Clown Tang became the aggressor and harrased him to the same right top area of the aquarium till I found him stuck to an MP10 in the tank 2 weeks ago. Wife replaced him with a med sized Powder Brown Tang and tried to acclimate him using an acclimation box for 3 days! Sailfin tang all of a sudden showed some intermitent interest shadowing the box and pulling nori out thru the holes in the box to eat but clown tang too severe interest and shadowed the PBrown Tang for all of day 1 and 1/2 of day 2...then left him alone for day 3.5! I thought all was good and let the PBrown Tang go the night of Day 4 after shutting down all of my AI Hydra lighting only to find the PBrown Tang dead wedged under a piece of rock work in the AM at feeding time. All other fish acted like they didn't know what happened and were nowhere near the "crime scene!" What happened to my peaceful Clown and Sailfin tangs? They hadn't bothered anybody or any additions after then and then bang for those two last fish?

    Am thinking of adding a larger Powder Blue (Med/Large - who can hold their own likely) and a small Scopa Tang along with a small Vlamingi - small who is in QT now (I know they can get big but this guy is less than 2" long) and a Foxface - small (that is also in QT) next at the same time. That will be the end of the Tangs and only other fish to add is possibly one more dwarf angel I am thinking about (Eibli or Coral Beauty) . Interested in your thoughts 4FordFamily on this plan going forward and others input. As said did deliberate stocking taking into account the aggression patterns and best way forward with all my tangs AND my angels too and so far at this time right now...got a nice mix and everyone is chill and happy....just want to finish things off with the above fish so please let em know thoughts.

    Pics of tank, tangs feeding (can see relative sizes), also larger view with some of rock work taken last Nov (have added more), and also the ill fated recent Powder Brown Tang in acclimation box addition (clown tang is flashing the box on the other tank side and can be seen if look hard while Sailfin is hoverin nearby towards bottom after stealing a bit of nori thru the holes in the acclimation box.

    Otherwise...Great post...very informative...is the most I've learned about 1 species of marine fish since I started in 2008...read all 20 pages! :)

    IMG_2132.jpg

    IMG_0388.JPG

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    IMG_1940.jpg
     
  19. Ishy

    Ishy Active Member UK Reef Club Member

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    Great thread.
    We've got a 275g approx, 7 " x 30" x 22" with an Orange shoulder 6" and lemon peel mimic tang 3", 2 clowns chalk goby, randals goby, dwarf fuzzy lionfish, 2 iridis wrasse. We removed a white cheek tang the smallest of the 3 as he killed our blenny and caused stress all the time. He was taken out after just 2 months.
    Now we have a big tank and not so many fish, any thoughts on adding a small chevron to this ? We have a copperband due to go in the dt and wanted to put something else in with it? Since taking the white cheek out these two tangs have a mild tang squabble over one of the many caves as the lights go down. Other than that no issues. Fancy and Emperor or Regal angel but we have LPS and alot of BTA's o maybe it needs to be a tang ?
    Thanks
     
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  20. Reef4Rose

    Reef4Rose Active Member Build Thread Contributor

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    My situation evolves from a problem. Problem was ich and my lack of understanding full effect on treatment. I lost a Naso and a Royal Gramma out of all my fish. I put my tank into hypo salinity as well as added a UV sterilizer. It’s been a month in hypo haven’t seen any signs of ich for 3 weeks. Will come out of hypo next week.

    My question and appreciation again goes to @4FordFamily or anyone else with experience with this. My ideal goal would be to get a replacement Naso and an Achiles at the same time. Run them through quarentine together add them to display together. Maybe acclimation boxes?

    My Tangs at this point are doing well together. This is the list:
    Scopas
    Yellow
    Purple
    Sailfin
    Hippo
    Orange Shoulder
    Powder Blue
    White tail bristletooth
    Sohal

    Housed in a 250 79 long 31 deep and 23 high.

    Orange Shoulder, Purple, Yellow and Hippo are 6” down to 4” nose to tail. The rest are in the 2 to 3.5” range.

    Ideally the achiles would be 4 to 5” and the Naso 4 to 6.

    Am I pushing my luck? Skip the achiles and just do the Naso?
     
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