Tang Aggression - Understanding and Combating

[Brian Kennedy]

I just banished two adult ocellaris clowns to my sump for ganging up and nearly killing the new yellow eye kole. Tore half the tank apart to try to catch either the clowns or tang. Clowns lost. Now I have the joy of monitoring for bacterial infection. The tang has probably 20 wounds on either side. I guess I should have gotten the blenny instead.

 

[4FordFamily]

Hey guys. I just got a purple tang. Ive already have a sailfin a yellow a hippo and a vlamingi tang in the tank they were all perfect together until the purple i had kept the purple in a acclimation box for a couple days to see if there was any signs of aggression and didn’t see any so I released him expecting him to be picked on a bit by my yellow who was king of the tank. But the purple has been beating everyone up. What can i do to stop this or should i let it play out. Btw no one has slash marks or puncture wounds. But the sailfin does has son torn fins. The purple mainly just chases the others.

Thanks in advance for any advice,

Garrett Hole

How long has it been going on? If it doesn’t improve in a few days I’d remove the aggressor. It should, however.

I don't plan on mixing tangs, so maybe this thread isn't the right place for this question, but it does involve aggression from a tang.

I plan on keeping a pretty peaceful group of small fish (less than 4" in most cases) in a 160 gallon (60x24x29). I want to keep one tang in there for algae patrol (and because most tangs look great). I'm leaning towards a yellow because I also want something fairly hardy and inexpensive. Most fish would be omnivores/carnivores so I'm hoping there won't be too much competition for food. I also plan on the tang going in last (out of about 20 or so small fish). Fully grown, the yellow tang could be 2x the size of the next biggest fish, and that has me concerned a bit.

So my question is, absent from a tyrannical jerk of a yellow tang (if my luck is that bad to get a really mean one), should I be concerned? Is there another hardy, inexpensive, and reasonably peaceful tang I should be considering instead of the yellow?

Tomini are a good choice. Unfortunately a lone tang tends to be more aggressive, but generally only toward new tang additions, later. I think a yellow would be fine for your purposes. A convict tang is a less common and very underrated option as well.

 

[Punchanello]

I now have five tangs in my 5x2x2 and they are fat, disease free and largely conflict free. I have a Yellow Eye Kole, Tomini, White Cheek, Yellow and a Hippo. I also have a Copperband Butterfly that is doing well. I've noticed over time the hierarchy changes but largely without violence or injury.

I took the advice in this thread and the things that worked for me are -

1. Avoiding tangs of the same genus. With the exception of the two Bristletooth tangs each is from a different genus. I don't think that body shape is really the issue, but competing for the same resources is. In fact, if you're not sure, the mouth is a really good indicator of risk. Really, hear me out! Tangs' main source of food is algae, but each species tends to prefer a different type and have evolved with a mouth to deal with that. Hippo's have kind of a toothy beak for grabbing and ripping, bristletooths scrape and Zebrasoma pick at hard to reach places. Use the mouth as a guide to whether they might compete with each other for resources.

I added the Tomini last which was risk as I already had a Kole. But at that point any aggression was spread out amongst 4 other fish and he avoids attention because of his size. Also, film and short algae which Bristletooths seem to prefer is almost always available in my tank so there's no sense of limited resources.

2. Acclimation boxes work. The biggest danger for a new tang is that it is bullied out of competing for resources. It's ok to get swiped occasionally but when it gets so bad that they can't get their fair share of food because they are too scared or weak then the problem snowballs in to infections because of injuries and starvation. I have found almost without exception that tangs will try to bully a new addition but that if injury and the grudges that arise from injury can be avoided for the first 24 hours, there's a good chance things will settle down. The acclimation box is perfect for this. All the tangs already in the tank will likely try to bully the new tang in the acclimation box. Some persistently. But they almost always lose interest over time. If they don't you can rethink the new addition. Once interest is lost you can release the new fish who has avoided any serious injury or hurt feelings and will already be wary of aggressive tank mates and will avoid them.

3. Loads of good food. Vitamin soaked meaty foods preferably home made from the fishmonger and lots of nori. Competition for food is never good and will increase aggression. The right foods can ensure health and help the fish fight off infections and heal from injuries if there have been fights. A sick or weak fish will get picked on so this is critical. In addition to loads of Nori I make a mix of scallops with roe, fish roe, shrimp, oily fish and clams mixed with some Aquaforest Vitality.

4. Quarantine and treat sick fish before adding them to the main tank. Tangs will attack weak or sick tangs. Before I put them in the DT I want them to be healthy, disease free and have enough fat stored to survive any initial stress and slow eating because of that stress. I want them strong enough to escape attack and so that if they do get injured they are capable of recovery.

5. I feel like have 1 or 4+ tangs is much more peaceful than 2 or 3. 2 tangs seem to focus on each other, 3 means that there are two to bully a more peaceful or small fish. At about 4 you start to see any aggression pretty evenly distributed and not focused on one individual.

Things I don't do or haven't done -

- I did not buy multiple tangs and add them at the same time. This probably works well but not really an option for me. Tangs are expensive in Australia so one at a time is easier for me. Also, I tend to find quarantining and treating more than one fish at a time is problematic and time consuming.

- I feel like methods like moving the rocks around and using a mirror are reactive rather than proactive and may or may not work. You are better off preventing the problem at the point of introduction with an acclimation box. It's injury and grudges that will kill the fish and avoiding those in the first place is the key. I also think that in themselves these methods are a bit dubious. Most fish will stare and taunt themselves in their own reflection when they get added to a tank and then they get over it meaning that as a distraction it has a limited effect. Also, tangs constantly roam long distances in the wild grazing and I don't think there's any merit to rearranging 'territories' in a 4 ft tank. It's not the space in my opinion, that they are competing for. It's food.

 

[mfollen]

This is a very good post. Agreed.
The “Godzilla” power heiarchy is very real tho with fish. But confidence is needed for fish to stand up

 

[Garrett0606]

How long has it been going on? If it doesn’t improve in a few days I’d remove the aggressor. It should, however.



Tomini are a good choice. Unfortunately a lone tang tends to be more aggressive, but generally only toward new tang additions, later. I think a yellow would be fine for your purposes. A convict tang is a less common and very underrated option as well.

it has been going on for a couple days.

 

[4FordFamily]

it has been going on for a couple days.

Is it tapering off or worsening?

 

[Mr.Goby]

I currently have 2 yellow tangs, blue hippo, and naso along with a MI and FF. I wanted to add a purple tang or white cheek. Is it doable?

 

[4FordFamily]

I currently have 2 yellow tangs, blue hippo, and naso along with a MI and FF. I wanted to add a purple tang or white cheek. Is it doable?

Maybe, but adding one zebrasoma to an exiting two may not work well, they may fixate on it. Adding a single tang of anything may not work well but that’s the thing with mixing tangs - anything can happen. I would say this is a bit risky, but doable with the things mentioned in the article in some cases. I recommend a smaller purple or a much larger purple than the existing tangs.

 

[Mr.Goby]

Maybe, but adding one zebrasoma to an exiting two may not work well, they may fixate on it. Adding a single tang of anything may not work well but that’s the thing with mixing tangs - anything can happen. I would say this is a bit risky, but doable with the things mentioned in the article in some cases. I recommend a smaller purple or a much larger purple than the existing tangs.

Thanks! What if I add the purple tang and another tang or Angel at the same time following the recommendations of the article? Or do you think still too risky?

 

[Garrett0606]

Is it tapering off or worsening?

Its is tapering off my sailfin tangs fin is already looking better. The purple still chases my blenny around a little but thats about it.

 

[4FordFamily]

Thanks! What if I add the purple tang and another tang or Angel at the same time following the recommendations of the article? Or do you think still too risky?

Two of the same species is risky, a third, different zebrasoma might well work better.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Ok, my achilies is at it again. I got three new fish on sunday, a miniatus grouper, a fowleri tang and a maculiceps tang and this morning whent he lights came on, the achilies was in full on murder mode with the fowleri. Back and forth, back and forth.

I re-arranged the rocks a little, and fed like a ton of food. Strange that he has singled out this one fish. The other tangs have only been in the tank a week. There is the following in an 8 foot 240..

Achilies
Sohal
Blonde naso
Hippo
Desjardini
Scopas (small)
Purple tang (small)
Lemon peel tang
Fowleri tang
Maculiceps tang
two clowns
flame hawk
speckled foxface

maybe I should try a divider in the tank? send the Achilles to anger management classes?

 

[4FordFamily]

Ok, my achilies is at it again. I got three new fish on sunday, a miniatus grouper, a fowleri tang and a maculiceps tang and this morning whent he lights came on, the achilies was in full on murder mode with the fowleri. Back and forth, back and forth.

I re-arranged the rocks a little, and fed like a ton of food. Strange that he has singled out this one fish. The other tangs have only been in the tank a week. There is the following in an 8 foot 240..

Achilies
Sohal
Blonde naso
Hippo
Desjardini
Scopas (small)
Purple tang (small)
Lemon peel tang
Fowleri tang
Maculiceps tang
two clowns
flame hawk
speckled foxface

maybe I should try a divider in the tank? send the Achilles to anger management classes?

Fixation is worst case scenario. I doubt that it calms down once it hones in on one fish. I’d remove the aggressor at this point

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

ugggh. That is what I was worried about. He is the WORST when he does that.

 

[4FordFamily]

ugggh. That is what I was worried about. He is the WORST when he does that.

Sorry, an aggressive acanthurus tang, namely powder blue, Achilles, etc are really nasty..

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Yeah, they are rare enough that I don't think people how much of a terror the achilies can be. He is easily half the size of the new fowleri.

I'll grab beer and you bring your nets over and we can catch him

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Well... of course I lent my huge acclimation box to a friend and he has had it for like 6 months so I fed a ridiculous amount and turned out the lights. The achilies was still keeping the fowleri in one corner of the tank but he wasn't aggressively chasing him and attacking. Turned the lights off early. This morning.. i found the maculiceps dead wedged under a rock. @%#%# @#%@#%! I have been waiting for that fish to show up at the wholesaler for months and it was a GORGEOUS specimen.

Sigh...

 

[Squidward]

Yeah, they are rare enough that I don't think people how much of a terror the achilies can be. He is easily half the size of the new fowleri.

I'll grab beer and you bring your nets over and we can catch him

Sorry for your loss and the terror your Fowleri is going through. My first tang in my 300g was a Fowleri. Added the Powder Blue and Achilles last. They were like half the size of the Fowleri and now they're almost the same size and they both bully the Fowleri here and there. But nothing serious. Eventually the Fowleri will outgrow them two and things should be better.

 

[LovesDogs_CatsRokay]

Is it common for a 2nd tang to be introduced and then the 1st tang go on a rampage killing everyone else?

I got a small yellow tang about a month and a half ago, he's growing fast, about 3.5 inches now. A few days ago, I added a tiny sailfin, about 1 inch in size. The yellow and sailfin seem to be best buddies, swimming around the tank side by side, but the yellow has started attacking other fish now. A 5 inch fairy wrasse and a 3 inch anthias. I think the anthias now has a spinal injury, and the wrasse has gone into hiding. Other than the yellow tang, the wrasse and the anthias were the strongest and the weakest fish in the tank in my opinion. Is it strategic or coincidence?

 

[4FordFamily]

Is it common for a 2nd tang to be introduced and then the 1st tang go on a rampage killing everyone else?

I got a small yellow tang about a month and a half ago, he's growing fast, about 3.5 inches now. A few days ago, I added a tiny sailfin, about 1 inch in size. The yellow and sailfin seem to be best buddies, swimming around the tank side by side, but the yellow has started attacking other fish now. A 5 inch fairy wrasse and a 3 inch anthias. I think the anthias now has a spinal injury, and the wrasse has gone into hiding. Other than the yellow tang, the wrasse and the anthias were the strongest and the weakest fish in the tank in my opinion. Is it strategic or coincidence?

This is not common, no. This would not be strategic, perhaps another tang caused it to become more territorial but it's intimidated enough from the new arrival that it focuses energy on other tankmates but this is pretty uncommon.

If the fish were otherwise weak or "not thriving", fish are very much opportunists. They relentlessly attack the weak. It makes biological sense -- kick them when they're down so the predators eat them, instead of you. Less competition for resources. Fish will badger and kill a fish showing weakness-- even fish that are typically model citizens will join in at times.