Tank Crash :(

[VR28man]

So before my tank (29g/110L aqueon, no sump but with a was running OK, but loaded with algae and DOC, which I think I sort of had under control. Several SPS and the like were growing and had PE.

Wednesday night I decided to do a massive clean out of algae on the tank walls and on rocks, to include macroalgae overgrowth on one rock. Took that rock out, wiped the walls and MP40s clear of algae, put all the corals into an acclimation box for 2-3 hours, rearranged rock work. I ran the diatom filter the entire time, also ran an extra pump pumping algae in the water column through a filter sock, and replaced about 10% of the water (I didn't remove the water intentionally, but just found that the water was about 10% and replaced it with water from my lfs). I've done similar before without much problem.

Now things are very bad. It appears that the inverts are doing OK. Fish (2x occelaris, 1x royal gramma and 1x lawnmower) are OK and eating.

But corals seem to be doing very badly since Wednesday.

- new Red Planet totally bleached and microalgae apparently growing on the skeleton
- Maxima clam died. (I removed it yesterday when it was clear it was dead)
- one UI acro is browned and or bleaching, though the coralites are still colored. Little PE
- two green slimers are doing OK, but not as much PE as before. One GS is bleaching, at alocation with less light
- Purple gorgonian (Antillogorgia/fmrly pterogorgia anceps) was doing well before, lots of PE, now no PE since Wednesday
- shortcake type coral has no PE, apparenlty losing skin and being taken over by microalgae
- P.damicornis, Favites pentagona (war coral), A tenuis (walt disney), Green Favie have decent PE but not as good as on Wednesday.
- holywood stunner went from a light blue under 450nm LEDs to a green color, noticably browner in full daylight.
- red montiopora cap is still looking bad - blackish skin in some places, whitish skin in others, red coralites. This is the worst black I've seen, but I've seen this in rough shape before and it has recovered.
- new superman monti seems fine.
- porites coral I received yesterday night (I would have held off until things stabilized but I couldn't) seems bleached this afternoon.

ETA: RFA looks fine, BTA is not extending as much but has been tempermental for weeks now, and looks to be ok.

Parameters (alk 7.5, PO4 ~0.12, salinity 33-35) that i watch are on par with last week. I don't have an ammonia kit anymore; that being said nitrates might have went up (2ppm -> 3.5ppm ish, salifert) but are now down to like 0.5.(yes)

So, I there are three possible causes it seems to me:

- the massive change got stuff upset, killed all the stuff in the water column that the corals ate. Hold the line, don't mess with stuff.

- there's nothing for the corals to eat or absorb since the nitrate is waaay down today. Start feeding corals carefully. MAYBE add bacteria to get things back in shape. (I have various leftover bacteria treatments. I already added waste/sludge remover).

- something odd was relased or otherwise got into the water column. Do a (25%? 50%? 100%?) water change. And even if you're wrong the water change can't hurt???

 

[xxkenny90xx]

Do you always get water from the lfs? It could be no good.

Why is your salinity between 33 and 35? It should be stable...

When in doubt do a water change. Maybe 40%

 

[xxkenny90xx]

Also just before the water change I'd feed the corals heavily

 

[Big G]

Wednesday night I decided to do a massive clean out

Small regular maintenance and cleaning will usually have a less drastic result on your tank's system.

 

[ScottB]

For such a fast reaction, I doubt it is the low nitrate. Not saying you shouldn't solve for low nitrate. Just don't think that is what triggered the necrosis / bleaching.

Could be that:
a) You stirred up some nasties from an anoxic section of the sand/rock. With circulation stopped for 2-3 hours corals stressed.
b) Your salinity changed significantly from where it was. Triple check salinity. If your tank was 10% low due to evaporation and you added salt water (versus RODI) and have had further evaporation...

What kind of algae were you removing? Turf? GHA? Film algae?

With your nitrates so low, I would not dose bacteria. This will further lower nitrates. Interesting that you have plenty of PO4 but low nitrate. Have you been dosing bacteria for a while now?

 

[CindyKz]

I would start on a schedule of regular water changes and moderate coral feedings and ride it out. Adding more - bacteria, nitrate, whatever - is just going to keep rocking the boat.

 

[VR28man]

thanks all. i am also thinking of running carbon overnight before my change tomorrow. but I’m not sure..........

 

[DeniseAndy]

I have done similar to what you have done to rid a tank of algae. I usually remove the corals into a nice bucket or bin with the tank water and then get to scrubbing the tank itself. I may even do a 100% water change. I have never really had an issue with corals reacting other than happier the algae is not bothering them.
Now, I have not done this when I ran sps systems. I now run, lps, nem, softie, and mixed (very little sps).
I must admit, I would never trust a LFS water to be mixed for me.
Maybe if you want to run the sps system, you need to buy into a RODI system and start making it yourself to keep the water consistent. That is what I would invest in.

 

[CindyKz]

thanks all. i am also thinking of running carbon overnight before my change tomorrow. but I’m not sure..........

Carbon is usually a "can't hurt, might help" proposition. I would in this case.

 

[JoshO]

How deep is the sandbed? And how old is the system?

 

[fishguy242]

on the right track now,carbon,small 10% wc's ,imo happy reefing

 

[VR28man]

Thanks, all. I just added a load of GAC (possibly too much, regardless I'll remove it all in 24-36 hours and maybe replace it with less) and will probably do a 10-40% water change tommorrow.

I found my large brittle star half eaten and with its arms torn off. I was about to toss it but when I picked it up it started struggling along so I kept it in. No idea what did this; I'm removing my hermit crabs and my porcelain crab now, and will see which of them is a flesh eater.

I may also do a bigger rather than smaller water change, given what happened to the brittle star - very strange, it's always under the rocks except at night.

For such a fast reaction, I doubt it is the low nitrate. Not saying you shouldn't solve for low nitrate. Just don't think that is what triggered the necrosis / bleaching.

Could be that:
a) You stirred up some nasties from an anoxic section of the sand/rock. With circulation stopped for 2-3 hours corals stressed.
b) Your salinity changed significantly from where it was. Triple check salinity. If your tank was 10% low due to evaporation and you added salt water (versus RODI) and have had further evaporation...

What kind of algae were you removing? Turf? GHA? Film algae?

With your nitrates so low, I would not dose bacteria. This will further lower nitrates. Interesting that you have plenty of PO4 but low nitrate. Have you been dosing bacteria for a while now?

yeah, salinity is stable/accurate. I was removing film/turf (don't really know the difference) and gha, and some macro algae.

Carbon is usually a "can't hurt, might help" proposition. I would in this case.

Yeah, but I've heard bad things about carbon before (usually overdoing it for too long), so while i'm doing it I'm wary of it.

How deep is the sandbed? And how old is the system?

System is two years old. I try to tweak it every few months (possibly didn't set it up and run it right at first, but then no one really knows what's "right" at first without experience, no matter how much one reads). It has about a 3" sand bed, mainly from the time I kept jawfish. I have a decent group of critters going through the sandbed, and this is far from the only time I've stirred the sandbed up (in fact I stirred it up much worse about a month ago). That being said, I would not have had such a deep bed if it weren't for the jawfish.

 

[NS Mike D]

pulling rock without rinsing the sand is problematic. 3" sand bed is that in-between level that will almost always cause problem. In any case, in 2 years a ton of detritus will build up in the seams and under the rock.

That being said, you got the algae out of the tank and your water is good. As for your corals, it's up to them now . You may lose a few more, but hopefully, if you keep things stable for them, they can recover.

 

[VR28man]

So I woke up and found both of my clowns dead and the tank cloudy. Actually, I noticed them hiding in their favorite corner near the MP40 unusually, and not eating yesterday night. (also noticed my royal gramma and lawnmower blenny were not around, as well as the oddity with the brittle star). But since this is not too unusual per se I chocked it up to random strangeness and did not think much about it).

Anyway, it looks like the bacteria, Dr. Tim's Waste-away, and the fact that I've been running the MP40s lower than normal since the cleanout led to too-low ORP and lots of animals died. Still not finding the RG and LMB; will probably look but am not optimistic about finding the carcasses at this point.

I suppose I will now do a 100% water change. I did treat with seachem prime.

Lesson I suppose is to be very careful with these things; that being said I've used waste away many times before without issue. I believe I used the recommended dosing, but of course am second guessing myself now.

Anyway, this is probably the end for me and the tank, and probably for me and the hobby for the next several months. . See where things are in a week.

 

[ScottB]

Really sorry. Take the time you need. Your community will be here when you are ready to start afresh, or grind it out with this setup.

 

[brandon429]

now that you are ready to do the 100% change you need to rip clean this system or risk losing it upon refill, from all the detritus in the system/rocks/sand its the clouding that's a concern. right when the tank is drained, you clean out the bad stuff vs refilling on top of it

want to do that critical step here? You'd be amazed at what it could do if applied a month ago/prevent the loss here. a chemical stew of bad comes from rotting algae, stirred up waste etc. a 100% water change doesn't deal with the bad components here, it only temporarily dilutes them.

post a full tank picture.

 

[VR28man]

now that you are ready to do the 100% change you need to rip clean this system or risk losing it upon refill, from all the detritus in the system/rocks/sand its the clouding that's a concern. right when the tank is drained, you clean out the bad stuff vs refilling on top of it

want to do that critical step here? You'd be amazed at what it could do if applied a month ago/prevent the loss here. a chemical stew of bad comes from rotting algae, stirred up waste etc. a 100% water change doesn't deal with the bad components here, it only temporarily dilutes them.

post a full tank picture.

Will do later. @brandon429 I take it you mean but I should toss out the sand bed?

 

[brandon429]

whether or not you keep the sand grains wont matter, its the detritus. 100% of all algae challenge systems retain waste, the algae plugs up rocks. There's a special way of ridding that while your tank is drained for the 100% water change

the sand waste can either be rinsed out and the grains put back, or swapped for a new bed. Read Jon's thread below, its what you must do to a T plus your system is easy compared to a 120 gallon rip clean. This thread is the roadmap to saving your tank; when you are at the rocks outside of tank portion, rinse the rocks in clean saltwater to jet out waste after you have already removed and killed the algae holding it all in with directed removal and peroxide and either scraping off the algae with a knife or picking it off by hand; only put back clean, jetted out rocks (always use saltwater to clear rocks, if you tap rinse your sand that wont matter, Jon shows below)

You want to kill your algae from the anchors with peroxide so that you don't have to wait for it all to rot/contribute to detritus stores already in the system. after rocks are made clear, all in one pass, re assemble with new water like Jon did.

 

[brandon429]

120 gallon rip clean

I’ve decided to perform a rip clean on my 120 with 100% new water. The tank has been running for 5 years and was battling Dino for several months. I used the bacteria method from elegant corals and worked great I haven’t seen Dino in months now. But I tried several other methods including...

www.reef2reef.com

see how there is no waste left in his system before he rebuilds it/skips the reassembly cycle? its crucial to do what he did and not customize the approach, its tank surgery.

doing just the water change part is 1/3 of the total job required. The reason Jons work is safer than what you did is because in a rip clean we are doing all the work where sensitive organisms aren't around the waste and kicked up risk, the surgical part is how we take down and re assemble without loss of the whole system.

People used to think rip cleaning is bad/dangerous/harmful

notice jons tank is worth over 5 grand (my estimate based on all systems, corals and supports in place) and nothing was wrong with it before the rip clean, he did it preemptively.

we have been falsely told in the hobby that being thorough with cleaning is bad, that's not true, hesitating is bad. threads like Jon's help to set the proper perspective about how waste and rotting organisms in a tank lead to problems vs being very hands on and removing it all using a very well tested approach.

 

[brandon429]

irony here is that the total takedown cleaning is the safe mode, and partial work where the greater system is left undisturbed isn't.