QT tank, dose or observe only?

[MnFish1]

I think you're twisting things. Read my post that I just wrote, then realize in the sticky section there is an article describing ich management without medication, No one of the fish medics care what individuals do with their fish or tanks. It's not personal.

 

[13rodo]

Yes the article said that. However, do you see where it in the sentence you quoted, mentioned the mortality of not quarantining?

I don’t you are welcome to help me find it. I do see this:

Mortalities during copper treatment can be reduced by increasing copper ion levels to therapeutic ranges more slowly (e.g., over 7 days) and starting copper treatment after the first week of quarantine.

So again… this article doesn’t recommend immediately adding Cu (wait a week it says) and again states that Cu mortality occurs at a rate of 3ish% if you wait a week or 7ish% if you don't. Either way non-zero.

 

[13rodo]

I think you're twisting things. Read my post that I just wrote, then realize in the sticky section there is an article describing ich management without medication, No one of the fish medics care what individuals do with their fish or tanks. It's not personal.

Never said it was personal. Not a single Fish Medic recommend non-medicated ich management… in fact they are aggressive about medication.

 

[smitten with ocean life]

hmmm waiting for @BeanAnimal to show up!
i dont have a prefence either way. and i am NO scientist! but i will say this. @exnisstech has come across much more politely. theres no reason to come out with your fists flying

 

[13rodo]

In reality, you're incorrect. I have never personally had a QT tank. I've never dosed copper, or Praziquantel. I buy my fish much like @exnisstech from carefully chosen stores, one time after buying a large number of fish at one time online (which I don't normally do) my entire tank was wiped out in 2 weeks. There are a number of ways to skin a cat. Yours is one, the recommendations on this site (which I fully support, because I don't feel many beginning aquarium owners can recognize disease early enough to treat it, resulting in excess mortality that is unnecessary. So - I don't believe I was twisting anything.

How am I incorrect? My whole argument from the beginning was there are downsides to Cu and I personally don’t premedicate… that’s what the OP asked for… opinions. You do the same as me. So I guess I’m correct that not everyone does the same thing.

 

[13rodo]

hmmm waiting for @BeanAnimal to show up!
i dont have a prefence either way. and i am NO scientist! but i will say this. @exnisstech has come across much more politely. theres no reason to come out with your fists flying

That’s fair

 

[exnisstech]

About 5 years ago I was in a situation similar to @MnFish1 when I introduced velvet. I managed to save 3 fish which I still have 6, 9, and 10yrs from adding. I ran the tank fallow reintroduced the saved fish and ran a powder blue through copper for whatever the recommendation were, I don't remember. Added it to the DT and it died from what appeared to be ich. No other fish showed symptoms and they themselves had been through copper so does it destroy the immune systems or not? I have no idea. Did I botch the fallow period or copper? Again I don't know. Forward I still medicated new additions and fish were dying in QT. Again it obviously works so again on me. I decided to start observation only as I've described. The velvet survivors a convict, purple, and naso tang are now in a 330g and I've since added 2 CBBs that died one at two years the other at 14 months. Coral beauty 2 years or longer current. Flame angel 1 year and the coral beauty decided the tank was too small. Sixline 2+ year current. Assortment of 5 damsels 2+ years current. Yellow banded possum wrasse 1+ year then the sixline like the CB decided the tank was too small. The possum wrasse now has a 20g to himself. Back on track. 4 yellow tangs, 3 biota and one wild that came over with the rest of the fish. Biota babies were the first fish in. Vlamingii next fish after the baby yellows and still in. A couple of bennies short term then went MIA. A yellow tail chromis 2+ years current. 10 blue green chromis. They were at the store 2 months and I kept them in observation for 60 days. They've whittled the pack down to 4 so I'll probably end up with one eventually as has happened twice before with groups. I may have forgotten some.
But the tank could die tomorrow if I make a mistake or get in a hurry, or my luck runs out. I hope not but if it does I may have different feelings if I were to continue.
I think sometimes people seek real life experiences over science not because it's more reliable we're all just wired differently and don't always need proof to accept. Heck where would religion be if people needed proof? I just try to offer what has worked for me nothing more nothing less.
No reason for anyone to get upset were just talking.
Pleasant evening to all.

PS. Glad to see people are relaxing. I woke up this morning and remembered my hippo that so many have trouble with. Mine spent 11 months in observation because I also needed to grow it out.

 

[me & my baby]

I do an observation qt to start off with . I only medicate if needed . I am also fortunate where I am able to spend time at night after work to check them out and watch them and look them over really good every night . I do have all the medication on hand that I would need if something comes up . So I keep them in qt for 30-45 days and after that if all is good then into my DT . If something does come up then you treat them do another observation period to make sure nothing got through the treatment .

 

[Fish Fan]

I could just turn them off. There’s no real option to dim these. It’s a little Aqueon hood with three small LED modules. Like for a kids tank.

I am so sorry for all the largely unnecessary noise over your thread

Unfortunately, this happens every single time someone asks if they should QT or not.

I'm not one of the R2R Fish Medic team, but personally, I would just turn the lights off then. Ambient room light is fine for the fish, and you can turn the light on if you have to observe them more closely

#fishmedic what would you guys suggest for the OP?

 

[13rodo]

I do an observation qt to start off with . I only medicate if needed . I am also fortunate where I am able to spend time at night after work to check them out and watch them and look them over really good every night . I do have all the medication on hand that I would need if something comes up . So I keep them in qt for 30-45 days and after that if all is good then into my DT . If something does come up then you treat them do another observation period to make sure nothing got through the treatment .

This is exactly what I do.

I think where I went wrong here was the analogy to chemo. That seemed to be too provocative of a way to try and explain my rationale. Gave a bunch of folks something to pick on. Oh well you live and learn lol

 

[dirtyd61]

I am so sorry for all the largely unnecessary noise over your thread

Unfortunately, this happens every single time someone asks if they should QT or not.

I'm not one of the R2R Fish Medic team, but personally, I would just turn the lights off then. Ambient room light is fine for the fish, and you can turn the light on if you have to observe them more closely

#fishm#fishmedicwould you guys suggest for the OP?

No big.

I did notice there was a white skin flap on the underside by one of their gills. Could be an injury or something in transport but not sure and way too hard to get a picture of. Eating and acting fine otherwise.

I decided to dose Prazi Pro preventively.

 

[Fish Fan]

I don’t believe in preemptive medication QT… get over it.

We get it, you don't do a medicated QT. Fine, that's everyone's choice and I respect everyone's own methods of reefing. My original post here was the second reply to the OP, and the first thing I said was that this is a personal choice for everyone to make.

At this point you're doing nothing but hijacking the OP's thread. You keep claiming that you're "done", and this isn't an enjoyable way to spend your off-time, yet you keep coming back for more and more. You've been dismissive and outright disrespectful to other forum members. Out of respect for the OP, I would ask that if you'd like to keep debating the merits of a medicated QT with the R2R Fish Medic team, that you please start your own thread.

 

[Fish Fan]

No big.

I did notice there was a white skin flap on the underside by one of their gills. Could be an injury or something in transport but not sure and way too hard to get a picture of. Eating and acting fine otherwise.

I decided to dose Prazi Pro preventively.

I'd encourage you to post some pics of the fish and let the Fish Medic guys take a look for you. At this point, you may wish to start a new thread, and I don't blame you

 

[dirtyd61]

I'd encourage you to post some pics of the fish and let the Fish Medic guys take a look for you. At this point, you may wish to start a new thread, and I don't blame you

I’ll try but you have to look so closely and at the right angle it’s going to be really difficult.

 

[me & my baby]

I do an observation qt to start off with . I only medicate if needed . I am also fortunate where I am able to spend time at night after work to check them out and watch them and look them over really good every night . I do have all the medication on hand that I would need if something comes up . So I keep them in qt for 30-45 days and after that if all is good then into my DT . If something does come up then you treat them do another observation period to make sure nothing got through the treatment .

This is exactly what I do.

I think where I went wrong here was the analogy to chemo. That seemed to be too provocative of a way to try and explain my rationale. Gave a bunch of folks something to pick on. Oh well you live and learn lol

Well the whole qt thing is a big topic . Take things with a grain of salt . Find what works good for you and you’re comfortable with and stick to it . So far this has been working for me . I had one batch in qt for 3 almost 4 weeks then all of the sudden I saw some flukes pop up . I treated them and all was good . The thing with just observing is taking the time to watch the fish every day so if something does come up you will be able to notice it and the treat .

 

[Fish Fan]

I’ll try but you have to look so closely and at the right angle it’s going to be really difficult.

I get that it can be hard. Sometimes a short video works best. Sometimes, it's best to leave your phone on a tripod or stand and leave the room. Often fish are freaked out when you're around the tank.

 

[dirtyd61]

I get that it can be hard. Sometimes a short video works best. Sometimes, it's best to leave your phone on a tripod or stand and leave the room. Often fish are freaked out when you're around the tank.

Will try. Prazi Pro seemed pretty safe over all and doesn’t bomb my qt right off the bat so seemed reasonable.

Have a sponge filter bubbling + hob inlet + my koralia nano right on the surface so should be getting oxygenated.

 

[Fish Fan]

Will try. Prazi Pro seemed pretty safe over all and doesn’t bomb my qt right off the bat so seemed reasonable.

Have a sponge filter bubbling + hob inlet + my koralia nano right on the surface so should be getting oxygenated.

I think this sounds good, but I'd like you to get some verification from the Fish Medic team. Unfortunately, I think many of them likely checked out of this thread, and I'm sorry for that. Again, you might want to start a new thread with these details and ideal pics or video of your fish

I hope this helps!

 

[me & my baby]

I’m in the observation first camp. Think about it… copper is toxic, which is how it kills parasites. Would you recommend a human get treated with chemo proactively? No, because the damage done would likely not be worth it. Treating with toxins is an extreme measure for an extreme circumstance.

Actually, your comment/analogy is a little false. Chemo is a different issue. However, there are numerous bacterial illness and parasitic illnesses that humans take as prophylaxis. Start with a penicillin derivative for preventing endocarditis for certain people before dental work. Consider antibiotic prophylaxis that given before nearly every surgery, as well as the prophylactic medication given for malaria.

That could also be the reason why we are starting to see so many drug resistant bacteria.

 

[13rodo]

You keep claiming that you're "done", and this isn't an enjoyable way to spend your off-time, yet you keep coming back for more and more. You've been dismissive and outright disrespectful to other forum members. Out of respect for the OP, I would ask that if you'd like to keep debating the merits of a medicated QT with the R2R Fish Medic team, that you please start your own thread.

This is fair and in the moment I probably took some of my arguments a bit far and personal. I don’t agree with preemptive medication, but I apologize to the OP and anyone that feels personally offended.