The DSR Method (Dutch Synthetic Reefing)

[Dogtown]

Glenn, Would you mind sharing pictures and thoughts about how to best handle ozone destruction? Do you use a standard reactor or something custom? Appreciate it, Thanks!

 

[laverda]

I paid around 85-90 dollars for shipping from seaflower. As the shipping was expensive, I bought 5000ML volumes and 1000ML volumes:

1. 5000 ML FE+ (Phosphate remover)
2. 5000 ML No3 (Nitrate additive)
3. 1000 ML FE Trace
4. 1000 ML Phosphate additive (for when I will need to dose Po4)
5. 1000 ML Iodine (Per the calculator I dose .20 ML nightly)
6. 1000 ML Boron
7. 1000 ML Strontium
8. 1000 ML Potassium

All of the above (including shipping was around 430 dollars. The Shipping you take a hit no matter if you buy 1000ML or 20000ML and the prices for the products are relatively the same once you get past the shipping costs.

I've found the Po4 remover to be very effective at controlling Po4. I use my own carbon source to control No3 (vinegar). For all the other common elements I use typical Soda Ash, Mag Chloride etc etc. I've been without a water change for 7 months now, so far everything is growing well. For testing I follow Glen's specifications with the exception of Sr, Br, and K. I've found the tests to be a pain in the butt there, I just use ICP now because those tests in frequency are 2-3 months and those elements are relatively stable. It's still an experiment for me but it's going well so far.

-Tom

Tom what size tank and how much of each are you dosing?

 

[Skibum]

Tom what size tank and how much of each are you dosing?

Hi laverda,

I have an RS-250
Dosing Regimen:

FE+ @1.87 ML until I get down to < .08 Po4 (Typically I measure Po4 weekly per Glen F's calculator)
FE Trace .37 - 1.12 ML daily (when not dosing FE +)
Strontium (dosed 31 ML so far based on ICP tests) 2 months test period ICP
Boron (no need to dose based on ICP test) 2 months test period ICP
K (no need to dose based on ICP test) 2 months test period ICP
No3 (no need to dose yet) I'm ranging 2.5 to 5 ppm
Iodine (I'm dosing .20 ML daily per calculator)
Manganese (not dosing yet)
Carbon (I'm using my own V/S solution to control No3)

Alk, CA, Mag are all dosed with pump BRS Bulk

Currently my system is really only 9 months old in it's current form, and I don't have enough corals to build up a structural deficiency as of yet.

ICP results:

 

[glennf]

I paid around 85-90 dollars for shipping from seaflower. As the shipping was expensive, I bought 5000ML volumes and 1000ML volumes:

1. 5000 ML FE+ (Phosphate remover)
2. 5000 ML No3 (Nitrate additive)
3. 1000 ML FE Trace
4. 1000 ML Phosphate additive (for when I will need to dose Po4)
5. 1000 ML Iodine (Per the calculator I dose .20 ML nightly)
6. 1000 ML Boron
7. 1000 ML Strontium
8. 1000 ML Potassium

All of the above (including shipping was around 430 dollars. The Shipping you take a hit no matter if you buy 1000ML or 20000ML and the prices for the products are relatively the same once you get past the shipping costs.

I've found the Po4 remover to be very effective at controlling Po4. I use my own carbon source to control No3 (vinegar). For all the other common elements I use typical Soda Ash, Mag Chloride etc etc. I've been without a water change for 7 months now, so far everything is growing well. For testing I follow Glen's specifications with the exception of Sr, Br, and K. I've found the tests to be a pain in the butt there, I just use ICP now because those tests in frequency are 2-3 months and those elements are relatively stable. It's still an experiment for me but it's going well so far.

-Tom

Thanks for sharing.
Some reefers do go the extra mile for their hobby[emoji6]

 

[glennf]

Glenn
If your products were available in the US I would prefer to use them. Any plans to have a US distributer? Do you think there is enough demand here?

While my tank does not look as nice as yours, I love not doing water changes.

I don't have any plans myself.
I did appoint an distributor in holland to take care of things in don't favour, so I can continue with the things i love most.
My experiments and sharing things with my "reefing friends"
This distributor ships to LFS worldwide.
Maybe your LFS already do business with them.
Anyhow... it's not my headache anymore.

I don't like WC also, so i came up with this solution.

Who have ever though that i could reproduce this over and over....[emoji16][emoji16][emoji16]

 

[Reef Jeff]

Subscribed! I have always liked the Dutch approaches to reef keeping. I started my first tank following George Smit and the Dutch Mini-Reef system. Technology has come a long way since then. I still use some of that old technology and funny as this sounds I'm still running Phillips of Holland Actinic 03 T12's in my hood. My supply is getting low, but love those bulbs.

Thanks for posting you methods!

 

[laverda]

Hi laverda,

I have an RS-250
Dosing Regimen:

FE+ @1.87 ML until I get down to < .08 Po4 (Typically I measure Po4 weekly per Glen F's calculator)
FE Trace .37 - 1.12 ML daily (when not dosing FE +)
Strontium (dosed 31 ML so far based on ICP tests) 2 months test period ICP
Boron (no need to dose based on ICP test) 2 months test period ICP
K (no need to dose based on ICP test) 2 months test period ICP
No3 (no need to dose yet) I'm ranging 2.5 to 5 ppm
Iodine (I'm dosing .20 ML daily per calculator)
Manganese (not dosing yet)
Carbon (I'm using my own V/S solution to control No3)

Alk, CA, Mag are all dosed with pump BRS Bulk

Currently my system is really only 9 months old in it's current form, and I don't have enough corals to build up a structural deficiency as of yet.

ICP results:

skibum thanks for sharing. I thought you had a much bigger tank, for all the chemicals you ordered. It Looks like you have a lifetime supply of everything .

 

[Skibum]

skibum thanks for sharing. I thought you had a much bigger tank, for all the chemicals you ordered. It Looks like you have a lifetime supply of everything .

You never know when you're going to get a bigger tank ;-). I wanted a supply that would last thanks to overseas shipping costs. Once you get used to the method, it's the simplest way of reef keeping I've ever been exposed to. I didn't start off with any *named* corals, or expensive frags as this was an experiment to me. The other thing that appeals to me is a tank full of mature colonies, which one doesn't see that often anymore. Glen's tank looks phenomenal, so he must be doing something right. So far, no water changes in ~7 months. Lately, the only thing I'm focused on is Po4 removal, all the other elements are stable, my corals haven't become massive consumers of nutrients at this stage. Everything else is relatively stable.

 

[laverda]

You never know when you're going to get a bigger tank ;-). I wanted a supply that would last thanks to overseas shipping costs. Once you get used to the method, it's the simplest way of reef keeping I've ever been exposed to. I didn't start off with any *named* corals, or expensive frags as this was an experiment to me. The other thing that appeals to me is a tank full of mature colonies, which one doesn't see that often anymore. Glen's tank looks phenomenal, so he must be doing something right. So far, no water changes in ~7 months. Lately, the only thing I'm focused on is Po4 removal, all the other elements are stable, my corals haven't become massive consumers of nutrients at this stage. Everything else is relatively stable.

Like you I don’t like the stick farm look or to freak plug look. I like to let my corals grow. I wish my wrasse felt the same. I am not into named corals either. For one I never remember the names. Also I would rather by a rock covered in zoas for $40 then one polyp for some insane price. My budget has forced me to go slow and stay away from named corals as well. My tank is a mixed reef with a bit of everything and 9 large BTAs.
I will have to look but I am guessing my last water change was 18 months ago. I have only done 2 or 3 real water changes since setting up my current display tank about 2.5 years ago. They we’re in the first few months of getting the tank running. By real I mean more then 5 gallons. I have done about four 5 gallon changes to acclimate fish in qt to my tank a week before moving them into the display. I find it very easy to control the nitrate and phosphate using DSR, although I still need to fine tune my levels a little. They are both lower than any tank I have ever owned. That said I don’t think elevated nitrate are not as big a deal as most make them out to be.
One thing I find different is I actually have to remove some water from time to time as my salinity will get to high otherwise. Have you and other people using DSR experienced the same thing?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

One thing I find different is I actually have to remove some water from time to time as my salinity will get to high otherwise. Have you and other people using DSR experienced the same thing?

That is an inherent attribute of anyone using calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate/carbonate/hydroxide. The residual sodium and chloride accumulate.

Depending on exactly how it is implemented, if you add 1.1 dKH per day for alkalinity and the balanced amount of calcium, that will cause roughly a 32% rise in salinity over a year, and reducing it back to normal is similar to doing a 32% water change.

 

[Skibum]

Like you I don’t like the stick farm look or to freak plug look. I like to let my corals grow. I wish my wrasse felt the same. I am not into named corals either. For one I never remember the names. Also I would rather by a rock covered in zoas for $40 then one polyp for some insane price. My budget has forced me to go slow and stay away from named corals as well. My tank is a mixed reef with a bit of everything and 9 large BTAs.
I will have to look but I am guessing my last water change was 18 months ago. I have only done 2 or 3 real water changes since setting up my current display tank about 2.5 years ago. They we’re in the first few months of getting the tank running. By real I mean more then 5 gallons. I have done about four 5 gallon changes to acclimate fish in qt to my tank a week before moving them into the display. I find it very easy to control the nitrate and phosphate using DSR, although I still need to fine tune my levels a little. They are both lower than any tank I have ever owned. That said I don’t think elevated nitrate are not as big a deal as most make them out to be.
One thing I find different is I actually have to remove some water from time to time as my salinity will get to high otherwise. Have you and other people using DSR experienced the same thing?

I've found that wet skimming typically removes the amount that I need. Occasionally I have to adjust down by removing water. One does have to pay attention to salinity with this method, I'm measuring SG about 2x a month.

 

[laverda]

That is an inherent attribute of anyone using calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate/carbonate/hydroxide. The residual sodium and chloride accumulate.

Depending on exactly how it is implemented, if you add 1.1 dKH per day for alkalinity and the balanced amount of calcium, that will cause roughly a 32% rise in salinity over a year, and reducing it back to normal is similar to doing a 32% water change.

Randy
Thanks for the information. It shows I don’t know that much about the real chemistry of a reef tank yet. I have never had that happen in 20+ years of reefkeeping.

 

[laverda]

I've found that wet skimming typically removes the amount that I need. Occasionally I have to adjust down by removing water. One does have to pay attention to salinity with this method, I'm measuring SG about 2x a month.

I will adjust my skimmer, but it is not a big deal. Just an observation mostly. I first really noticed it when I did not have time to do my normal tests for a month SG rose to 1.03o. I check my SG weekly most of the time.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy
Thanks for the information. It shows I don’t know that much about the real chemistry of a reef tank yet. I have never had that happen in 20+ years of reefkeeping.

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing.

 

[Sherman]

I also using Glenn method but using other brand supplements and elements.
Only FE+ is from DSR because of the high shipping cost in Singapore.
So far 15 months of no water change .
Everything seem ok

 

[vlnemo]

Hello. One question please. FE+ and Fe trace. I have a lot of po4 (and no3) in my system so i start adding FE+, right?When i start run FE trace? Sera test read them both? Thanks

 

[Skibum]

Hello. One question please. FE+ and Fe trace. I have a lot of po4 (and no3) in my system so i start adding FE+, right?When i start run FE trace? Sera test read them both? Thanks

FE Trace is added when you're PO4 hits the target range in the calculator. So as soon as you're done with the FE+ you begin to add FE Trace. Based on what I've read from the DSR forums, you never add them at the same time.

 

[laverda]

Glennf
Have you had any issues with Sulfate and Chloride staying balanced? If so how are you handling it?

 

[bubblemytip]

Glennf
Have you had any issues with Sulfate and Chloride staying balanced? If so how are you handling it?

I think just switching between using magnesium chloride and magnesium sulphate as required. There is also this calculator on the DSR website, which is useful: http://dsrreefing.com/scalc/

 

[laverda]

I think just switching between using magnesium chloride and magnesium sulphate as required. There is also this calculator on the DSR website, which is useful: http://dsrreefing.com/scalc/

Thank you.