Thinking of starting over. What would YOU do differently?

[beesnreefs]

Got my dream tank last July. Tried really hard to take lessons learned and “do it right” this time. Well, the dream is turning to a nightmare and I’m thinking about starting over.

First I had bad dinos. Then unexplained fish loss (half the fish died in a few days and we have no idea why) Then horrible cyano. Then dinos came back. And awful GHA everywhere at the r cyano disappeared. Torches I grew to 25 heads in the last system are melting away overnight in this one. Some hammers too. Sticks are bleaching out.

And now I have ich. Lost a blond naso last week and expect more losses in the coming days.

Wife and I spent 2.5 hours yesterday scrubbing algae off the rocks and siphoning the sand. It’ll look just as bad again in three days.

Seriously considering tearing it down, cleaning it all up, and starting over.

Anyone ever done that?

If you started a large (225g in my case) mixed reef over, what would you do differently?

 

[blaxsun]

With my own system, I'd have spent more time on the wiring runs and cable management. I'd also have opted for a model with Euro bracing to keep the splashing/jumping to a minimum.

With respect to the actual reef itself, less euphyllias and more fish-resistant corals (SPS). After I got velvet (almost 2 years ago now) I upgraded to an oversized UV and haven't looked back.

 

[j.falk]

I wouldn't start it over. I've done the same thing many a time and it always backfires on me.

Before you tear it down/start over, have you considered letting things run their course? Don't add any new livestock to the tank...don't tinker with anything...don't add new equipment...don't add chemicals....just maintain the necessary components and leave things alone for the next few months and let things balance out on their own. A tank has to go through numerous cycles before it will balance itself out...typically, if you start over you are just resetting the cycles and will (more than likely) have to go through it all over again.

 

[doubleshot00]

Three things i would have done differently.

1. I would use a mix of live rock and dry.
2. Dose nitrates and phosphates to keep them from bottoming.
3. Went with a 120 gal instead of a 90.

I've had ups and downs like you OP and for some reason with quick action its always turned around quickly. 6 months after stating that tank i rebooted it as i wanted to switch over to a newer tank with a sump. Since then I've had dinos, I've had algae issues and now just getting over cynao (fingers crossed). I went slow with my tank. Added corals almost 4 months after starting and never added expensive corals. Kept lights off to a minimum for about 2 months.

I wouldnt start it over but try to come up with a 6 month plan to get it back right.

 

[Kongar]

Oh I've struggled as well - and thought about tearing it down and starting over many times. As I approach the three year mark of a thriving successful tank - I learned a few key things and I'd have done these differently.

1. I'd have learned that "take it slow" means years - like three of them. Maybe I'm still learning this, and maybe that number is 5 or so.
2. I'd have put more effort into natural biodiversity instead of chemicals. Pods, utilitarian fish, more CUC, urchins, bacteria (see next point)
3. I'd have used at least a little live rock. Not introducing pests is a fallacy - they will arrive eventually. It's better to have the microscopic diversity from the live rock. In retrospect, my tank took a turn for the better the day I just plunked two large pieces of rock from my LFS into my tank.

I wouldn't tear your tank down - it can probably be fixed. It's satisfying to look at a healthy tank you created from a very UN-healthy tank...

 

[Tuan’s Reef]

What kind of live rocks did you use? The key to my sustained stability was the live rock. Straight from the ocean TBS live rock is what i have.

 

[j.falk]

I will say one more thing. IF you do start over...focus first on getting purple coralline algae to grow. I have noticed that systems that are chock full of coralline tend to have little to no nuisance algae problems. The key to getting it to grow fast is to find good quality live rock that is already covered in it...busting it up with a hammer and a chisel into smaller pieces and adding it throughout your tank so that it can start growing onto your bare rock to cover it over fast eliminating potential real estate for algaes to grow.

 

[beesnreefs]

With my own system, I'd have spent more time on the wiring runs and cable management. I'd also have opted for a model with Euro bracing to keep the splashing/jumping to a minimum.

With respect to the actual reef itself, less euphyllias and more fish-resistant corals (SPS). After I got velvet (almost 2 years ago now) I upgraded to an oversized UV and haven't looked back.

Thanks @blaxsun. I see you posting on here a lot and appreciate your perspective.

I did add a UV 2 weeks ago when the Ich issue started showing. And as much as I LOVE euphyllia...I'm beginning to wonder if torches and I need a break from each other

 

[beesnreefs]

I will say one more thing. IF you do start over...focus first on getting purple coralline algae to grow. I have noticed that systems that are chock full of coralline tend to have little to no nuisance algae problems. The key to getting it to grow fast is to find good quality live rock that is already covered in it...busting it up with a hammer and a chisel into smaller pieces and adding it throughout your tank so that it can start growing onto your bare rock to cover it over fast eliminating potential real estate for algaes to grow.

You make some great points, @j.falk and I appreciate your support here. Honestly, I don't want to start over so reading your responses is giving me some courage to keep going.

I added 8 lbs of live rubble from TBS several months ago. It went in the sump, though, so I'm not sure how much it helped the biome in my DT. Last week I got 2 jars of "parasite-free" live rubble from @AquaBiomics and added that directly into the DT. Hoping this helps with diversity.

On the bright side, in the past 4 weeks I have seen purple coralline growing on the rock and back wall! Small spots, to be fair, but visible!

I am 100% the kind of reefer who sees an issue and wants to do something about it. Patience is a struggle for me. Maybe I just need to buck up and let things play out.

 

[beesnreefs]

Oh I've struggled as well - and thought about tearing it down and starting over many times. As I approach the three year mark of a thriving successful tank - I learned a few key things and I'd have done these differently.

1. I'd have learned that "take it slow" means years - like three of them. Maybe I'm still learning this, and maybe that number is 5 or so.
2. I'd have put more effort into natural biodiversity instead of chemicals. Pods, utilitarian fish, more CUC, urchins, bacteria (see next point)
3. I'd have used at least a little live rock. Not introducing pests is a fallacy - they will arrive eventually. It's better to have the microscopic diversity from the live rock. In retrospect, my tank took a turn for the better the day I just plunked two large pieces of rock from my LFS into my tank.

I wouldn't tear your tank down - it can probably be fixed. It's satisfying to look at a healthy tank you created from a very UN-healthy tank...

You make a good point...if we can get this tank to a good spot it will be incredibly satisfying given all we're going through.

 

[blaxsun]

Thanks @blaxsun. I see you posting on here a lot and appreciate your perspective.

I did add a UV 2 weeks ago when the Ich issue started showing. And as much as I LOVE euphyllia...I'm beginning to wonder if torches and I need a break from each other

I lost an absolutely gorgeous dragon soul torch last week (BJD) that I'd had for over a year, so I feel your pain.

 

[beesnreefs]

What kind of live rocks did you use? The key to my sustained stability was the live rock. Straight from the ocean TBS live rock is what i have.

I added 8 lbs of TBS live rubble to my sump about 5 months ago. I also added 2 jars of Aquabiomics live rubble to the DT last week.

I had also been adding AF LifeSource mud once a week for a few months but stopped that recently as I wasn't certain it was doing much of anything.

 

[beesnreefs]

I lost an absolutely gorgeous dragon soul torch last week (BJD) that I'd had for over a year, so I feel your pain.

I'm really sorry to hear that. It's awful watching them melt away, especially the ones you're so attached to.

 

[i cant think]

Got my dream tank last July. Tried really hard to take lessons learned and “do it right” this time. Well, the dream is turning to a nightmare and I’m thinking about starting over.

First I had bad dinos. Then unexplained fish loss (half the fish died in a few days and we have no idea why) Then horrible cyano. Then dinos came back. And awful GHA everywhere at the r cyano disappeared. Torches I grew to 25 heads in the last system are melting away overnight in this one. Some hammers too. Sticks are bleaching out.

And now I have ich. Lost a blond naso last week and expect more losses in the coming days.

Wife and I spent 2.5 hours yesterday scrubbing algae off the rocks and siphoning the sand. It’ll look just as bad again in three days.

Seriously considering tearing it down, cleaning it all up, and starting over.

Anyone ever done that?

If you started a large (225g in my case) mixed reef over, what would you do differently?

I wouldn’t start it over.
I’ve started over tanks because of issues like cyano and it never works as I have 6 months of no dirties then all of a sudden Cyano fights back. The best thing you can do it just wait it out and for now find out why your corals are bleaching and melting as it may not be linked to the algae.

 

[Mperry622]

I am kind of starting over after the one year mark of my 125 gal reef. I was given a new to me 200G and it has found it's home in the basement. the same person gave me a 100 square which I have setup and let cycle to hold current coral from 125 upstairs until I get 200 setup and then move 125 down next to the 200. my goal is to plumb all three 125, 200 and 100 to one 55 g sump. I have picked up so many good habits from this forum I can't thank you all enough. I now get to have one tank 200G with all my fish( even the ones that eat my current coral :-( ) and one tank for all coral which is plumbed to fish tank for nutrients . I would never ever buy live rock from a LFS. you are just buying someone else's problem they most likely quit reefing from... vermited and aptasia are my #1 enemies from starting with all live rock... the price too!

 

[zoomonster]

I think most if not all of us have had tank challenges. I've had reef tanks for about 33 years and had more than my share. Pretty much every kind of equipment issue, algae, unexplained fish and coral die off etc. etc. After what was probably an alk crash that killed my SPS I pretty much left the 9yo 200g tank on autopilot (no water change) during covid and let the RBTA's and shrooms take over and it did great (including my fish). Pretty much cleaned that out over last couple months and remodeling along with some equipment repairs/upgrades/cleaning. Pretty much just doing LPS (brains, torch, hammer, frog), shrooms, ricordia, misc. other and zoa this time around with maybe some SPS (just not sticks). I think the biggest issue I'm going after is overall stability. I just added a chiller which I should have done years ago. The sad truth is the hobby always has been and will always be a giant money pit, but I love it. I certainly spent a ton of bank in the last month restocking/upgrading/repairing the tank.

 

[Tuan’s Reef]

I added 8 lbs of TBS live rubble to my sump about 5 months ago. I also added 2 jars of Aquabiomics live rubble to the DT last week.

I had also been adding AF LifeSource mud once a week for a few months but stopped that recently as I wasn't certain it was doing much of anything.

Your tank is 225gallons? I would use way more than 8 lbs of TBS. I have 50 lbs in my Red Sea 200XL. I just don't think 8 pounds can seed the rest of the rocks in a timely manner.

 

[MoshJosh]

Hard to say without more details, but. . . If you are looking to "restart", what I would do:

Try to Identify the causes and make sure you have a feeding schedule/maintenance schedule such that any deep clean isn't wasted. Need to keep parameters stable regardless of what cleaning method you use or if and when you completely restart.

Throw some media in your sump/filter if not already doing so as this process will probably kill some bacteria.

Over the course of a day I would remove any corals from the rocks and store in a bucket of tank water.
Remove each rock from the tanks and aggressively scrub with a CLEAN scrubbing brush/toilet brush and tooth brush (BE CAREFUL!!! SCRUBBING CORAL AND SEA LIFE CAN RELEASE TOXINS!!! DON"T SCRUB ZOAS OR PALYS!!!).
Rinse said rocks in saltwater then put back into tank.
Add some super fine mechanical filtration
Stir up your sand bed like crazy (may or may not want to remove fish for this???)
change mechanical filtration once it gets clogged or the water is clear
Massive water change
run carbon (other media depending on needs)

Also I would dose Microbacter 7 and Microbacter clean.

Also also, a solid CUC.

 

[beesnreefs]

I think most if not all of us have had tank challenges. I've had reef tanks for about 33 years and had more than my share. Pretty much every kind of equipment issue, algae, unexplained fish and coral die off etc. etc. After what was probably an alk crash that killed my SPS I pretty much left the 9yo 200g tank on autopilot (no water change) during covid and let the RBTA's and shrooms take over and it did great (including my fish). Pretty much cleaned that out over last couple months and remodeling along with some equipment repairs/upgrades/cleaning. Pretty much just doing LPS (brains, torch, hammer, frog), shrooms, ricordia, misc. other and zoa this time around with maybe some SPS (just not sticks). I think the biggest issue I'm going after is overall stability. I just added a chiller which I should have done years ago. The sad truth is the hobby always has been and will always be a giant money pit, but I love it. I certainly spent a ton of bank in the last month restocking/upgrading/repairing the tank.

It is a money pit, isn't it! And yet I can't get myself to stop buying all the pretty things...lol

 

[beesnreefs]

Hard to say without more details, but. . . If you are looking to "restart", what I would do:

Try to Identify the causes and make sure you have a feeding schedule/maintenance schedule such that any deep clean isn't wasted.

Throw some media in your sump/filter if not already doing so as this process will probably kill some bacteria.

Over the course of a day I would remove any corals from the rocks and store in a bucket of tank water.
Remove each rock from the tanks and aggressively scrub with a CLEAN scrubbing brush/toilet brush and tooth brush.
Rinse said rocks in saltwater then put back into tank.
Add some super fine mechanical filtration
Stir up your sand bed like crazy (may or may not want to remove fish for this???)
change mechanical filtration once it gets clogged or the water is clear
Massive water change
run carbon (other media depending on needs)

Also I would dose Microbacter 7 and Microbacter clean.

Also also, a solid CUC.

Thanks, @MoshJosh (love the name, BTW!). I really appreciate the advice.

Our schedule right now looks like this:

Feeding:
We make our own frozen food, a mix of mysis, 2 types of Rod's frozen, spirulina powder, BetaGlucan powder, Selcon, and Vita-Chem. Fish are fed this twice a day (7 am, 1 pm) with some Besleer's Matrine pellets added in. In the late afternoon (typically around 4) we put half a sheet of purple nori soaked in Selcon in the tank along with half an algae tab.

Maintenance:
1 - 2 times a week for the past 3-4 weeks we turn off pumps and scrub the rocks with smoker's toothbrushes (very hard bristles) to loosen up as much GHA as possible. We then use nets to get as much of the floating GHA out as we can and then turn the pumps back on and siphon the entire tank, including the sand bed, into a 5-micron sock attached to the sump. We also run a ReefMat 1200 and UV in the sump. No carbon currently and, due to low nutrients (Nitrates = 0.5 - 2, Phosphates = 0.01 - 0.06) we haven't been doing water changes. Only thing we haven't done is remove the rocks from the tank as some of our rock structures are quite big and heavy.