This will end the hobby: AMENDMENTS TO LACEY ACT IN HOUSE COMPETES ACT HR4521

[polyppal]

Here are the ‘talking points’ for this act in an email I got from PIJAC:

• I urge you to oppose amendments to HR4521 because the amendments would create a "white list" of approved species that can be imported into the U.S. This is a concern because it is likely not a workable solution given the vast number of live organisms in the pet care community that could be subject to review and approval. This is also not workable because of the challenges authorities will face identifying types of species due to minor differences in size and color, for example, that may appear for a non-listed animal but make a certain pet animal more attractive or distinctive for those that care for them.
• I don't support HR4521 because it establishes new emergency powers that would allow USFWS to use an "emergency designation" that is effective immediately after publication in the Federal Register to prohibit a species if it is found to be injurious. This is a problem because there could be no due process, public input, hearings or advanced notice for certain injurious listings which could happen seemingly overnight.
• I oppose amendments to Lacey Act recently added to HR4521, the America COMPETES Act because it would give authority for U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) to regulate movement of injurious wildlife in interstate trade of the continental U.S. with no respect for specific climate or other variations in geography. This is a problem because there are portions of the country where there is little risk for species to become injurious, for example the risks to Alaska are different from the risks to Florida. In fact, state agencies are stepping up to address importation, possession, and sale of certain species based on injurious concerns specific to their state.
• I do not support amendments to HR4521 because there are several USFWS designated ports of entry, such as Chicago or Los Angeles, where it may not be physically possible to inspect shipments or provide animal care due to how incoming shipments are processed.
• I urge you not to support amendments to Lacey Act included in the America COMPETES Act. These provisions, as well as many others included in the COMPETES Act, have not had a hearing outside of the Rules Committee and this is being rushed through the legislative process.

 

[Smite]

More government over reach and sneaking bills into other bills to get what they want, quietly. I don't see enough specifics to not be "alarmed".

Will shipping animals NOT on the "white list" be determined state to state or blanketed across the US? AKA will an exotic be banned from going from CA to AZ because it has a potential of thriving in Florida? It sounds like the update/changing of the list will be done in house once passed.

Seems like there is a "no biggie it wont effect me vibe" in this thread. I keep both reptiles and reefs and will be furious if this passes. I love my boas as much as my tank and dog. Imagine this does pass and it is across all state lines. I want out of CA but now have to make a decision, rehome my pets inside CA or worse, euthanize them. Will someone want 6 boa constrictors to house and feed if they know they'll have trouble rehoming or moving down the road?

To think a politician wont add something to the list that could effect this hobby once this gets passed is naïve. It seems like the wording takes the American people out of the decision process moving forward. Think about it, all it would take is someone to walk up and whisper "palytoxin" in politicians ear and it's game over for coral going across state lines.

Threads popping up all day about coral prices being outrageous. They're creating more hoops to jump through, each hoop is gonna cost money in forms of documentation and increased import fees that'll all trickle down to the consumer and put even more pressure on small business and jack prices sky high.

 

[ThRoewer]

More government over reach and sneaking bills into other bills to get what they want, quietly. I don't see enough specifics to not be "alarmed".

Will shipping animals NOT on the "white list" be determined state to state or blanketed across the US? AKA will an exotic be banned from going from CA to AZ because it has a potential of thriving in Florida? It sounds like the update/changing of the list will be done in house once passed.

Seems like there is a "no biggie it wont effect me vibe" in this thread. I keep both reptiles and reefs and will be furious if this passes. I love my boas as much as my tank and dog. Imagine this does pass and it is across all state lines. I want out of CA but now have to make a decision, rehome my pets inside CA or worse, euthanize them. Will someone want 6 boa constrictors to house and feed if they know they'll have trouble rehoming or moving down the road?

To think a politician wont add something to the list that could effect this hobby once this gets passed is naïve. It seems like the wording takes the American people out of the decision process moving forward. Think about it, all it would take is someone to walk up and whisper "palytoxin" in politicians ear and it's game over for coral going across state lines.

Threads popping up all day about coral prices being outrageous. They're creating more hoops to jump through, each hoop is gonna cost money in forms of documentation and increased import fees that'll all trickle down to the consumer and put even more pressure on small business and jack prices sky high.

It's going to be Federal law, so all states will be equally affected without exception.

While this isn't automatically banning everything, it can be used by bureaucrats to do just that. One must also always think about how such laws could be abused to implement agendas the law had not in mind. There are plenty of people in this country and around the world who would like nothing more than to put an end to all pet trade and pet keeping and this law would just be the tool they had always longed for.

 

[ThRoewer]

It passed the House: https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/202231

 

[polyppal]

If this is the future 'white list', im out...

Im gonna start working on my 200g damsel/peppermint shrimp display

 

[ThRoewer]

If this is the future 'white list', im out

Not yet. I think it still has to pass the senate.

 

[polyppal]

Its hard to believe it will pass the Senate since the Republicans seem adamantly opposed to it on that house vote. That's promising, ive received 3-4 different emails/etc from organizations about it though, so while it may not be Reef Armageddon, it would likely seriously hinder the hobby if it somehow passed. Might be worth filling out the petition form to your local senators.

Error Code: 404

 

[ApoIsland]

Seems like there is a "no biggie it wont effect me vibe" in this thread.

Agreed. I believe this is how they got Hawaii. Starts with one law, then another, then another, and then goodbye Hawaii fish. We keep giving these lunatics an inch at a time and we will eventually be left with nothing.

 

[Sean Clark]

Just watching...

 

[ThRoewer]

If this is the future 'white list', im out...

Im gonna start working on my 200g damsel/peppermint shrimp display

I think it will be a whole lot more depressing...

 

[Sean_B]

Its hard to believe it will pass the Senate since the Republicans seem adamantly opposed to it on that house vote. That's promising, ive received 3-4 different emails/etc from organizations about it though, so while it may not be Reef Armageddon, it would likely seriously hinder the hobby if it somehow passed. Might be worth filling out the petition form to your local senators.

Error Code: 404

done!

 

[drawman]

Is there one available for senators? That link appeared to be the house.

 

[Sean_B]

Is there one available for senators? That link appeared to be the house.

when I clicked on it, it brought me to the current "senator" representation remit

@PeterC99 we should be discussing Pizza though

 

[Gtinnel]

Its hard to believe it will pass the Senate since the Republicans seem adamantly opposed to it on that house vote.

I don't necessarily agree with this. Unless I'm mistaken there are currently 50 Republican senators, 48 Democratic senators, and 2 Independent senators. The two independent senators however caucus with the Democrats which in my book essentially makes them Democratic, one of them is Bernie Sanders who ran for president as Democrat. So if everyone voted party lines it would be a tie, which would then go to the Democratic VP for the tie breaker.

I would say it stands a reasonably good chance of passing the senate.

 

[polyppal]

I don't necessarily agree with this. Unless I'm mistaken there are currently 50 Republican senators, 48 Democratic senators, and 2 Independent senators. The two independent senators however caucus with the Democrats which in my book essentially makes them Democratic, one of them is Bernie Sanders who ran for president as Democrat. So if everyone voted party lines it would be a tie, which would then go to the Democratic VP for the tie breaker.

I would say it stands a reasonably good chance of passing the senate.

Don’t they need 60 votes to get anything done in the Senate? Hence the reason nothing ever gets done lol

((Idk how all that filibuster stuff works, need to watch some more school house rock))

 

[Gtinnel]

Don’t they need 60 votes to get anything done in the Senate? Hence the reason nothing ever gets done lol

((Idk how all that filibuster stuff works, need to watch some more school house rock))

If I'm not mistaken and I very possible could be the 60 votes is required to pass a bill without debate, if they don't get 60 votes then it has to be debated. After the debate it is passed with a simple majority vote.

Filibuster is just one side talking for so long that they run out of time and don't get a chance to do the final vote.

 

[polyppal]

If I'm not mistaken and I very possible could be the 60 votes is required to pass a bill without debate, if they don't get 60 votes then it has to be debated. After the debate it is passed with a simple majority vote.

Filibuster is just one side talking for so long that they run out of time and don't get a chance to do the final vote.

Oh boy I think your right… quick somebody call Manchin and Sinema!

 

[Gtinnel]

Oh boy I think your right… quick somebody call Manchin and Sinema!

Manchin is one of my states senators and his office is only 5 floors down from where I work. Not that that matters in anyway.

He is a very conservative Democrat (honestly I had to look because i thought he had already switched to Republican) so he is always a wild card on which way he will vote, which is why he often makes the news.

 

[Eric R.]

The section in question starts on page 1661. The key section is this one on page 1663:

This is worded ambiguously enough to be used to ban nearly everything.

I only read the first 60 or so posts, so my apologies if this was already discussed, but why are people concerned about this affecting corals? Corals as cndarians aren't part of anything mentioned in the text (specifically fish, mollusks, and crustaceans). Is there reason to believe this would apply to corals as well?

How it affects fish, shrimp, crabs, snails, and clams is something separate, but if it doesn't affect corals at least we don't need to spend time discussing that.

 

[MnFish1]

We pretty much know what species are invasive and have them banned already. This is for new species that are trying to be imported.

This I'm not sure of. There for sure is a list of invasive species, but lion fish are invasive - and can still be imported - right? There is also a difference IMHO - in a state like FL banning lion fish - and a state like Iowa banning lion fish. (You're not going to release a lion fish in Iowa). A federal 'list' is different. I also happen to agree with you that this is not going to 'destroy' the hobby the way its written - as usual - it seems like its poorly written.