Thoughts on Dr. Reef

[Manpeckz]

Is there any particular process that a “conditioned” fish goes through? @Dr. Reef

Thanks!

 

[Dr. Reef]

Our conditioned fish go through freshwater dip and ONLY in very few species formalin dip. Then They goto sterile tank for 5-7 days. If they are not sold as conditioned in that first week we move them to copper and the qt process starts. They can still be sold as conditioned while they might be in copper and have not completed the full 14 days.
We do a prazi/metro bath on all fish (conditioned or qted) 24 hr prior to shipping.
I am 95% sure, even our conditioned fish dont have ich or velvet.

 

[Manpeckz]

This helps big time.

I wasn’t sure it was coming from the same place as the QT fish.

Thank you for the clarification and letting us know how the fish are handled!

 

[MnFish1]

Our conditioned fish go through freshwater dip and ONLY in very few species formalin dip. Then They goto sterile tank for 5-7 days. If they are not sold as conditioned in that first week we move them to copper and the qt process starts. They can still be sold as conditioned while they might be in copper and have not completed the full 14 days.
We do a prazi/metro bath on all fish (conditioned or qted) 24 hr prior to shipping.
I am 95% sure, even our conditioned fish dont have ich or velvet.

I'm curious - can you say where that 95% surety comes from(that the conditioned fish don't have ich or velvet? I ask because - if thats the case - why do a QT protocol at all? I'm of the (personal) opinion, that if you have a protocol, you just follow it. I'm not sure why selling fish in the middle of a quarantine protocol (i.e. stopping the quarantine and shipping them - and I'm not sure you're doing this anyway) makes sense.

 

[MnFish1]

Our conditioned fish go through freshwater dip and ONLY in very few species formalin dip. Then They goto sterile tank for 5-7 days. If they are not sold as conditioned in that first week we move them to copper and the qt process starts. They can still be sold as conditioned while they might be in copper and have not completed the full 14 days.
We do a prazi/metro bath on all fish (conditioned or qted) 24 hr prior to shipping.
I am 95% sure, even our conditioned fish dont have ich or velvet.

Sorry - another question - Why do some fish (conditioned) - from a science perspective not need a quarantine protocol in your opinion?

 

[GlassMunky]

Reading this thread makes me INSANELY HAPPY to have a pre-qt fish supplier locally to me (TSM AQUATICS).
Regardless if a fish has gone through qt or not, I want to see the fish eat in person before I buy it. And to then have to re-stress the fish out through shipping (giving it more chances to get sick/die) after spending all that time getting them to destress and eat just doesn’t make sense to me.
If I had to deal with the horror stories I see and read like these I legit don’t think I’d keep fish, only corals.

 

[Dr. Reef]

I'm curious - can you say where that 95% surety comes from(that the conditioned fish don't have ich or velvet? I ask because - if thats the case - why do a QT protocol at all? I'm of the (personal) opinion, that if you have a protocol, you just follow it. I'm not sure why selling fish in the middle of a quarantine protocol (i.e. stopping the quarantine and shipping them - and I'm not sure you're doing this anyway) makes sense.

In 5 years of us buying from 2 perticular wholesalers (2 main we buy from) i have never seen ich or velvet. Reason: They run a very pure and tight system. Ozone, copper and all sorts of otther measures for them not to have an outbreak. Thus when we buy from them they are clean. They still need prazi and metro etc to cure them of flukes and internal parasites and while we are at it thats why we confident in just doing 14 days in copper and not 21-30 days.
breakdown starts to happen after the wholesalers and into ther retailers systems.

Conditioned fish are sold cheaper and with no guarantee vs the qted fish. These fish are for people that want cheaper fish to do their own qt or some dont do qt at all thus we have those people covered as well.

 

[Dr. Reef]

Sorry - another question - Why do some fish (conditioned) - from a science perspective not need a quarantine protocol in your opinion?

They do and we never recommend that on our site either. we tell clients these are conditioned fish with a little head start towards qtying but you must finish your own protocol or if you are part of the group that doesnt qt at all then you take full responsibility and dont hold us accountable.

 

[Dr. Reef]

Reading this thread makes me INSANELY HAPPY to have a pre-qt fish supplier locally to me (TSM AQUATICS).
Regardless if a fish has gone through qt or not, I want to see the fish eat in person before I buy it. And to then have to re-stress the fish out through shipping (giving it more chances to get sick/die) after spending all that time getting them to destress and eat just doesn’t make sense to me.
If I had to deal with the horror stories I see and read like these I legit don’t think I’d keep fish, only corals.

Thats exactly the point.
We are not shipping dead fish to customers. As a business it doesnt make any sense because we guarantee live arrival and stay alive for 3-7 days on most species. So we will have to either ship again or refund or credit in all cases lose more money. SO where does the doa happen, In shipping.
Shipping is very rough on fish. Carriers are not easy with them either, weather is not favorable many months of the year. I can show you videos and pics of boxes that reach in bad shape like they were tossed arround.
Then comes delays by carrier, plane is down weather was bad mechanical failures etc.
Heat packs fail. we buy heatpacks directly from uniheat and they have good till 2026 dates on them currently,
Some are duds, how would you know if they are going to fail in shipping.
We do open them few hours ahead and let them warm up before placing them in the box to be sure they are working. If carrier flips the box upside down and crushes the heat pack they stop working.
Now the fish and transport water. CO2 builds up causing the bag water to be acidic. pH drops to about 7.0-7.4 range. Is not the salinity that kills the fish, its the sudden change in pH that matters more.
Most people when they recieve fish they cut open the bag and dump them in a bucket with air stone in it.
Guess what: as soon as you open the bag CO2 escapes and O2 interacts and having air stone doesnt help any. becaus eit starts to raise O2 and pH level really really fast, which fish cant handle. They loop loopy and drunk and when realease to the tank they normally will die after 24-48 hrs.
Then there are different acclimation practises by different people. I can tell you a few people that had dead fish and we started to question their procedure and found out they were mixing saltmix powder directly into the bucket with live fish to raise salinity. Thats a big no no.
Salt should never be mixed directly into a bucket with live fish being acclimated.
So there are so many variable when it comes to shipping that are just against the shipper.

 

[Dr. Reef]

Another thing what most hobbyist dont account for is pH, Not salinity.
Lower salinity to higher or vice versa is not that big of a deal like most hobbyist think. yes it has its issues but not as bad as pH.
People go from 1.025 to 0 when they do freshwater bath for 3-5 min. Then back to 1.025 with no ramp up or ramp down time. if salinity was such a big deal why dont those fish just die right away or few hours or day later.
1st rule of freshwater dip is make to make sure temp and pH is same as your tank.
Because salinity is not as harsh vs sudden changes in pH.
When we recieve our fish from overseas, they have been travelling for a while. normally their pH has dropped below 7 (avg 6.6-6.8) and salinity is 1.013-15 range.
We bring them up to pH 7.0 with 1.017 sg water and when pH is 7.0 then we acclimate them from sg 1.017 pH7.0 to 1.023 pH 8.0
This is same method most ALL wholesalers use and we do it too. Again influence is on pH not Sg.

 

[RWhitt907]

For those that have been following through this thread. He followed through on his word of supplying me with the Midas Blenny and Royal Gramma. I don't think the customer service could be any better than that.

 

[Ado]

For those that have been following through this thread. He followed through on his word of supplying me with the Midas Blenny and Royal Gramma. I don't think the customer service could be any better than that.

Things like this make me want to make my purchases with these people. Daniel from Reefi has similar, near immediate responsive custom service

 

[RWhitt907]

Things like this make me want to make my purchases with these people. Daniel from Reefi has similar, near immediate responsive custom service

He's pretty much responded instantly on all of my questions. When I added things to the order he still didn't make me pay for shipping. If you're that confident in your work, I'll buy from you.

 

[maxberter]

Chromis used to have internal uronema and we went to Kenya and import them from Africa and we have not seen 1 case of uronema anymore.

I have received 2 orders from Dr. Reef and a 3rd order is in QT. His level of service is honestly unbelievable, even more so having read this thread and understanding the scale of his operation. I have had one goby that died the first night in my tank and he worked with me to replace it with another quickly, including allowing me to switch to a different goby species and only paying the price difference. Unbelievably responsive and I highly recommend his services. I plan to continue to use him for all of my fish orders, except some invert orders will still go to reefcleaners (another vendor that is top notch in my experience).

I do have one comment regarding the Chromis and uronema. I ordered a Blue/Green Chromis that I received in December of last year and put it directly into a sterile QT tank for observation. It developed signs of uronema and died 6 days after I got it. I understood the risk with uronema and this species and it was inexpensive, so I wasn't upset or anything. But, per my experience, I don't believe the above statement about the new source being uronema-fee is correct (unless the change was within the last 4 months -- then please do correct me, and I might order one!). Pics attached were taken 1-2 days before the fish died.

PS thanks for unlocking the text/images on the website! that also frustrated me!

 

[RWhitt907]

I have received 2 orders from Dr. Reef and a 3rd order is in QT. His level of service is honestly unbelievable, even more so having read this thread and understanding the scale of his operation. I have had one goby that died the first night in my tank and he worked with me to replace it with another quickly, including allowing me to switch to a different goby species and only paying the price difference. Unbelievably responsive and I highly recommend his services. I plan to continue to use him for all of my fish orders, except some invert orders will still go to reefcleaners (another vendor that is top notch in my experience).

I do have one comment regarding the Chromis and uronema. I ordered a Blue/Green Chromis that I received in December of last year and put it directly into a sterile QT tank for observation. It developed signs of uronema and died 6 days after I got it. I understood the risk with uronema and this species and it was inexpensive, so I wasn't upset or anything. But, per my experience, I don't believe the above statement about the new source being uronema-fee is correct (unless the change was within the last 4 months -- then please do correct me, and I might order one!). Pics attached were taken 1-2 days before the fish died.

PS thanks for unlocking the text/images on the website! that also frustrated me!

Uronema is pretty much in every tank and a fallow period won't kill it off unfortunately. But it's very rare it transmits so it's likely the chromis had it upon arrival at his shop.

 

[linzlou4]

I'm currently going through a wrong fish mix up with them unfortunately. Was sent a different angel and they're saying I was sent a blue face angel. As its one of my top three fish, I know what it looks like

Ordered https://drreefsquarantinedfish.com/product/blueface-angelfish-adult/
Received https://drreefsquarantinedfish.com/product/queen-angelfish-adult/ But I actually think it's a Blue not a queen because the coloring on the tail is different.

 

[MnFish1]

I'm currently going through a wrong fish mix up with them unfortunately. Was sent a different angel and they're saying I was sent a blue face angel. As its one of my top three fish, I know what it looks like

Ordered https://drreefsquarantinedfish.com/product/blueface-angelfish-adult/
Received https://drreefsquarantinedfish.com/product/queen-angelfish-adult/ But I actually think it's a Blue not a queen because the coloring on the tail is different.

Agree - did you show what you received? I mean one is a queen angel - the other a blue-face - but how about a picture of what you received in your tank - In fact this should be in the vendor forum perhaps?

 

[MnFish1]

Uronema is pretty much in every tank and a fallow period won't kill it off unfortunately. But it's very rare it transmits so it's likely the chromis had it upon arrival at his shop.

Just going to say 'disagree' - edit - 1. uronema is not in every tank. 2, it would be unlikely to be transmitted as described here

 

[michealprater]

One shipping tip is to poke a small pencil sized hole in the styrofoam cooler. This may sound crazy, but you cover the hole inside with a heat pack. Heat packs require constant oxygen to stay warm, this is impossible in a sealed cooler. Many coral vendors are having great luck using the hole method.

 

[RWhitt907]

Just going to say 'disagree'

I mean I'll hear you out, I've only been I'm this hobby a little over a year so there's plenty to learn