Time to end Copper....Now what?

[germs101]

This is only my second time using copper in qt and the first time I have any fish left after 30 days . I know I still need to observe them for a bit more. Do I do a large water change and put in a filter cartridge with activated carbon, or do I need to disinfect the tank and equipment then continue to observe them?

Also, how long do I need to observe them? Originally I had preformed TTM, observed them for two weeks, and two days before they were to go into the DT I saw flashing from on of the fish. They had also been at the LFS under qt for two weeks prior. So, that's 6 weeks before any symptoms presented! I've had them for two months, but I really hope I don't need to wait 6 weeks to see if symptoms come back! I dosed Prazipro last week because I saw twitching from one of the fish and also gave it a FW dip. After the dip the twitching stopped.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Did any flukes come off during the fw dip? You should be able to see them...

I'd be hesitant to release them if they were still symptomatic last week. Also, they would need a second dose of prazi in 5-7 days from the first... I would make sure the copper is gone first. Big water change and carbon, then test to make sure it's gone and add the second dose (if it's been 5-7 days)

 

[germs101]

Did any flukes come off during the fw dip? You should be able to see them...

I'd be hesitant to release them if they were still symptomatic last week. Also, they would need a second dose of prazi in 5-7 days from the first... I would make sure the copper is gone first. Big water change and carbon, then test to make sure it's gone and add the second dose (if it's been 5-7 days)

I did the second dose of Prazipro this week. The airstone I used to oxygenate the water for the FW dip was from the qt tank, so it gave off algae making the water dirty . I didn't see any flukes, but who knows. The tang that was in the FW dip seemed to have something whitish coming off right after, but it could have been mucus. Unfortunately the pictures I tried to take weren't clear.

I wasn't going to put them in the display tank yet, but I'm not sure how long is necessary to observe them once the copper is out.

 

[ngoodermuth]

I think the general recommendation is 2 weeks

 

[Humblefish]

I think the general recommendation is 2 weeks

+1 And during these two weeks you must watch the fish very closely for these key behavioral symptoms of disease:

• Reduced or complete loss of appetite.
• Lethargy
• Yawning (unique to gill flukes)
• Heavy breathing, rubbing, flashing, head twitching, erratic swimming behavior (unfortunately velvet shares all these same symptoms with ich & gill flukes.)
• Swimming into the flow of a powerhead (unique to velvet).
• Acting reclusive (velvet causes fish to be sensitive to light).

 

[germs101]

Any idea why the symptoms I observed took so long to show up, and wouldn't it be possible for that to happen again?

 

[Humblefish]

Any idea why the symptoms I observed took so long to show up, and wouldn't it be possible for that to happen again?

Time spent at the LFS doesn't count (in my book) towards passive observation, as oftentimes the fish are kept in subtherapeutic copper which is designed to suppress symptoms of parasites. The advantage of subtherapeutic copper is you are able to keep parasites at bay (but not 100% eliminated) without the harshness of full blown copper. If this happens, it can take a full month in clean, unmedicated water before symptoms resurface.

TTM takes almost two weeks to perform and addresses ich (but not velvet); so that is why I recommend observing for two weeks post TTM to watch for velvet.

Copper or CP, if done correctly at therapeutic levels, will eliminate all strains of velvet and most strains of ich in 4 weeks. Symptoms were not suppressed because therapeutic strength copper or CP prevents a fish from being reinfected during the 30 day treatment period. The fish itself should not have any contact with parasites (after they drop off) once copper hits therapeutic. However, there is a small chance unhatched tomonts are still in the QT if a rare strain of ich has been encountered. So, the point of the two week observation period in this case is to observe for any behavioral symptoms of ich.

 

[germs101]

Well, I guess the plus is there really shouldn't be any possibility of ich because of the TTM I did, and you say that ALL strains of velvet are killed during 30 days of copper. So, most likely the twitching was from flukes which I personally only treated for the first time last week.

Thank you SO much for taking the time clarify all of this.

 

[germs101]

It would appear that the Hippo is twitching her head. I was suspicious 2 days ago, but I think it's safe to call it for what it is. They were treated twice with Prazipro 6 days apart towards the end if their 30 days in copper that was removed 3.5 days ago. The Mimic tang appears normal for now. I see nothing visible on the body. I know is isn't ich because prior to the copper they went though TTM.

What do I do? Obviously something is bothering her, but after all of these treatments I can't see what! Ugh!

 

[ngoodermuth]

Prazi-resistant flukes? I'm sorry, that's so frustrating.

 

[germs101]

Prazi-resistant flukes? I'm sorry, that's so frustrating.

Is there such a thing? I can't win [emoji23]

 

[Humblefish]

Is there such a thing? I can't win [emoji23]

There is - hypo or formalin is the backup plan when prazi fails.

However, I would first perform a FW dip to confirm flukes are indeed present: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/video-how-to-do-a-freshwater-dip.214/

 

[germs101]

There is - hypo or formalin is the backup plan when prazi fails.

However, I would first perform a FW dip to confirm flukes are indeed present: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/video-how-to-do-a-freshwater-dip.214/

Odd question, but is it ok to get air into the water with just the air pump and tube? I'm out of airstones right now.

 

[Humblefish]

Odd question, but is it ok to get air into the water with just the air pump and tube? I'm out of airstones right now.

Yes. So long as the surface of the water is being disturbed you will get gas exchange.

 

[germs101]

Is this a fluke?

 

[Humblefish]

Hard to say for sure, but I sorta doubt it. When a fish has flukes, there should be at least several white dots.

 

[germs101]

That's almost disappointing because at least I'd know what is the problem. It's hard to make a treatment plan when you don't know what you're supposed to be treating. These fish have gone through TTM, Coppersafe, fresh water dips, 10 days of Furan2 and Kanaplex, and two rounds of Prazipro. Any ideas of what to try next?
I should probably also add that since the FW dip the Hippo seems much more comfortable, so something is up [emoji4]

 

[4FordFamily]

I've seen tangs twitch and behave as if they had ich for up to two months after treatment on occasion. I've hypothesized that the insertion points are healing which is itchy. Typically for at least a few weeks after I wouldn't be too concerned if you didn't find flukes on a freshwater dip.

 

[germs101]

I've seen tangs twitch and behave as if they had ich for up to two months after treatment on occasion. I've hypothesized that the insertion points are healing which is itchy. Typically for at least a few weeks after I wouldn't be too concerned if you didn't find flukes on a freshwater dip.

That's interesting. I never would have thought of that, but it makes total sense. People have that problem with scabs and scars.
I guess as long as the other tang remains symptom free it will be an indication that whatever is bothering the Hippo may no longer be contagious.

 

[Humblefish]

These fish have gone through TTM, Coppersafe, fresh water dips, 10 days of Furan2 and Kanaplex, and two rounds of Prazipro. Any ideas of what to try next?
I should probably also add that since the FW dip the Hippo seems much more comfortable, so something is up [emoji4]

How long did YOU treat using Coppersafe? And how often did you test your Cu level?