Toadstool discolored foot. What’s wrong with it?

[ESamson]

Any advise from people more experienced? Thanks in advance!! So I’ve had this guy for like a month now and it’s been looking sad and droopy all the time. A couple of weeks ago the base of the foot started discoloring to white. It was faded into the purple but now it’s got a brown ring separating the white from the purple. Other issues with it is it’s never fully opened polyps. Max is what you see. It’s droopy all the time. And the stem skin looks wrinkled a lot of the times. It had what looked like aiptaisia on the base. I used aiptaisia x to try to get rid of it. Wondering if that burned the coral. At this point I’m inclined to frag to save the healthiest looking part. It’s in a medium/high flow area with medium low light.

RS LED90 light at 30% blue spectrum (it’s 500 PAR at 100%)

1.025, 78.8°F, Nitrates 6.5, Phos 0.18, Ca2 480, dKh 9, tank is 5mo)

(This is one of my first “test” corals I got with a Duncan and a Favita, which are both doing just fine unlike this guy)

 

[Glenner’sreef]

So your RedSea is reaching 500 par? A leather like this one should be fine with half that much.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Is this leather coral attached to a rock? Or is the dark base old tissue?

 

[ESamson]

So your RedSea is reaching 500 par? A leather like this one should be fine with half that much.

That's what I thought. I haven't measured but that's the spec by the manufacturer's chart. So I just keep it running at 30% after reading all those horror stories of people frying corals using them full blast. Though to be precise, if you look at the RedSea tank chart (attached), he's really in the 180-ish PAR area, which would make it maybe 60PAR running the light at 30% I suppose? Do you think that's why it's never opened the polyps since I got it? I wonder if I should increase and to what estimated PAR level. The other two corals seem really happy in the same conditions.

 

[ESamson]

Is this leather coral attached to a rock? Or is the dark base old tissue?

It's attached to a rock with coralline algae on it.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

It's attached to a rock with coralline algae on it.

So reading back over your original post, I see that it’s only a month old (from somewhere). It has not opened in your tank since you introduced it to your tank. And it had at least one Aptasia at its base that you killed with Aptasia X.
First the Aptasia X should not harm it at all. It weakens quickly as it mixes with your tank water.
Where did you purchase/obtain your leather?
When you first saw it were it’s polyps extended and did it look healthy? Clarifying this last one might then point us to your water quality.

 

[MaxTremors]

That's what I thought. I haven't measured but that's the spec by the manufacturer's chart. So I just keep it running at 30% after reading all those horror stories of people frying corals using them full blast. Though to be precise, if you look at the RedSea tank chart (attached), he's really in the 180-ish PAR area, which would make it maybe 60PAR running the light at 30% I suppose? Do you think that's why it's never opened the polyps since I got it? I wonder if I should increase and to what estimated PAR level. The other two corals seem really happy in the same conditions.

Leathers, and toadstools specifically, like quite a bit of light, like in the 150-250PAR range (and even higher). They also like quite a bit of flow. I would turn the lights up to 50%. Duncans and Favites (guessing that’s what you mean, there is no such thing as a ‘Favita’ and there are no Favias in the hobby) both need more than 60 PAR, they should both be should be in 100-150 range. That said, leathers can be pouty and can take as long as a month or two to really settle in (and some will settle in in a day), so long as it’s not disintegrating, it’s still alive, just give it some time (and more light and flow).

 

[ESamson]

Any advise from people more experienced? Thanks in advance!! So I’ve had this guy for like a month now and it’s been looking sad and droopy all the time. A couple of weeks ago the base of the foot started discoloring to white. It was faded into the purple but now it’s got a brown ring separating the white from the purple. Other issues with it is it’s never fully opened polyps. Max is what you see. It’s droopy all the time. And the stem skin looks wrinkled a lot of the times. It had what looked like aiptaisia on the base. I used aiptaisia x to try to get rid of it. Wondering if that burned the coral. At this point I’m inclined to frag to save the healthiest looking part. It’s in a medium/high flow area with medium low light.

RS LED90 light at 30% blue spectrum (it’s 500 PAR at 100%)

1.025, 78.8°F, Nitrates 6.5, Phos 0.18, Ca2 480, dKh 9, tank is 5mo)

(This is one of my first “test” corals I got with a Duncan and a Favita, which are both doing just fine unlike this guy)

So reading back over your original post, I see that it’s only a month old (from somewhere). It has not opened in your tank since you introduced it to your tank. And it had at least one Aptasia at its base that you killed with Aptasia X.
First the Aptasia X should not harm it at all. It weakens quickly as it mixes with your tank water.
Where did you purchase/obtain your leather?
When you first saw it were it’s polyps extended and did it look healthy? Clarifying this last one might then point us to your water quality.

Those are follow up questions. Thanks for asking.

I got it from my LFS. It looked beautiful in the store! The guy fragged it for me while I was there from a 3 "trunk" colony, if that makes sense. I was just there a couple of weeks ago and their mother colony still looks beautiful and with all the polyps much longer than this.

Not sure if I treated it right from the start for a freshly cut coral. I just dipped, dip acclimated and put in the tank. I'm not saying I'm not open to learn what could be wrong with my water, but what do you think could be wrong with the water? 1.025, 78.8°F, Nitrates 6.5, Phos 0.18, Ca2 480, dKh 9, pH 8.1. I mix my own water with my own RODI and Reef Crystals. Meter always reads 0000ppm before mixing. I treat all the water with Dr Tim's First Defense.

I'm new to keeping a reef tank, so I've been having oscillating nitrates and phosphates while I learn to keep them more stable (over the past month nitrates have oscillated between 0 and 35, more recently within 0 and 10, and phosphates between 0.12 and 0.30, more recently more stable around 0.18 to 0.20).

I don't mean to digress to discuss light, but do you think that's an issue as well? I've noticed that my Duncan opens up in the light and closes up in the dark and this toadstool kind of wants to do the same, but very weakly. I keep light at that low a level because my LFS guy said theirs was 80 PAR in the tank we took this one from. And I was introducing my first three test corals, so I figured I'd start there with the light.

Thanks again.

 

[ESamson]

Those are follow up questions. Thanks for asking.

I got it from my LFS. It looked beautiful in the store! The guy fragged it for me while I was there from a 3 "trunk" colony, if that makes sense. I was just there a couple of weeks ago and their mother colony still looks beautiful and with all the polyps much longer than this.

Not sure if I treated it right from the start for a freshly cut coral. I just dipped, dip acclimated and put in the tank. I'm not saying I'm not open to learn what could be wrong with my water, but what do you think could be wrong with the water? 1.025, 78.8°F, Nitrates 6.5, Phos 0.18, Ca2 480, dKh 9, pH 8.1. I mix my own water with my own RODI and Reef Crystals. Meter always reads 0000ppm before mixing. I treat all the water with Dr Tim's First Defense.

I'm new to keeping a reef tank, so I've been having oscillating nitrates and phosphates while I learn to keep them more stable (over the past month nitrates have oscillated between 0 and 35, more recently within 0 and 10, and phosphates between 0.12 and 0.30, more recently more stable around 0.18 to 0.20).

I don't mean to digress to discuss light, but do you think that's an issue as well? I've noticed that my Duncan opens up in the light and closes up in the dark and this toadstool kind of wants to do the same, but very weakly. I keep light at that low a level because my LFS guy said theirs was 80 PAR in the tank we took this one from. And I was introducing my first three test corals, so I figured I'd start there with the light.

Thanks again.

Meant to say those are *great follow up questions. Sorry.

 

[ESamson]

Leathers, and toadstools specifically, like quite a bit of light, like in the 150-250PAR range (and even higher). They also like quite a bit of flow. I would turn the lights up to 50%. Duncans and Favites (guessing that’s what you mean, there is no such thing as a ‘Favita’ and there are no Favias in the hobby) both need more than 60 PAR, they should both be should be in 100-150 range. That said, leathers can be pouty and can take as long as a month or two to really settle in (and some will settle in in a day), so long as it’s not disintegrating, it’s still alive, just give it some time (and more light and flow).

Thanks. That makes sense. Do you think it's a good idea to run the 50% increase with an acclimation schedule so it's gradual? Or would you just do it at once? Do you think that white ring on the base can wait or will ever recover? I wonder if it's some sort of necrotic tissue. I guess since it's not expanding any further and it's now limited by that brown ring, I can watch it for a little longer instead of fragging that off.

 

[ESamson]

Leathers, and toadstools specifically, like quite a bit of light, like in the 150-250PAR range (and even higher). They also like quite a bit of flow. I would turn the lights up to 50%. Duncans and Favites (guessing that’s what you mean, there is no such thing as a ‘Favita’ and there are no Favias in the hobby) both need more than 60 PAR, they should both be should be in 100-150 range. That said, leathers can be pouty and can take as long as a month or two to really settle in (and some will settle in in a day), so long as it’s not disintegrating, it’s still alive, just give it some time (and more light and flow).

Favite, yes. That's what I meant. I thought both Favias and Favites were available in the hobby and I was having trouble ID-ing it. But if Favias not available, then it should be a Favite. Also, I thought it was doing ok, but I just found this today: Is that three dead spots in the center? And the mouths have been gaping quite a bit for the past couple of days. I'll open a Favite post, but if anything useful comes to mind to you, thanks in advance!

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Those are follow up questions. Thanks for asking.

I got it from my LFS. It looked beautiful in the store! The guy fragged it for me while I was there from a 3 "trunk" colony, if that makes sense. I was just there a couple of weeks ago and their mother colony still looks beautiful and with all the polyps much longer than this.

Not sure if I treated it right from the start for a freshly cut coral. I just dipped, dip acclimated and put in the tank. I'm not saying I'm not open to learn what could be wrong with my water, but what do you think could be wrong with the water? 1.025, 78.8°F, Nitrates 6.5, Phos 0.18, Ca2 480, dKh 9, pH 8.1. I mix my own water with my own RODI and Reef Crystals. Meter always reads 0000ppm before mixing. I treat all the water with Dr Tim's First Defense.

I'm new to keeping a reef tank, so I've been having oscillating nitrates and phosphates while I learn to keep them more stable (over the past month nitrates have oscillated between 0 and 35, more recently within 0 and 10, and phosphates between 0.12 and 0.30, more recently more stable around 0.18 to 0.20).

I don't mean to digress to discuss light, but do you think that's an issue as well? I've noticed that my Duncan opens up in the light and closes up in the dark and this toadstool kind of wants to do the same, but very weakly. I keep light at that low a level because my LFS guy said theirs was 80 PAR in the tank we took this one from. And I was introducing my first three test corals, so I figured I'd start there with the light.

Thanks again.

Good to hear he cut it fresh from a larger colony. So your lighting vs his lighting at least initially has a red flag. Your par 500 vs his par 80. So I’d either put him in a shadier area of the tank, side or corner etc or tone down that particular light. I have a dozen or so neon green toadstool leathers that I fragged from my mother colony back around the first of the year. The youngins are all at the bottom of my display tank. They do great there. But mama is up near the top of the tank. Initial acclimation is important but ultimately these corals do well everywhere.

 

[ESamson]

Good to hear he cut it fresh from a larger colony. So your lighting vs his lighting at least initially has a red flag. Your par 500 vs his par 80. So I’d either put him in a shadier area of the tank, side or corner etc or tone down that particular light. I have a dozen or so neon green toadstool leathers that I fragged from my mother colony back around the first of the year. The youngins are all at the bottom of my display tank. They do great there. But mama is up near the top of the tank. Initial acclimation is important but ultimately these corals do well everywhere.

Thanks. Those look beautiful!

That makes sense. It's not under 500 PAR, though, it was more like 60PAR. Sorry if my writing was confusing.* So it's definitely not under too much light, it wold seem. Right? Or if you can think of something else, let me know.

Thanks for sharing a photo of those amazing leathers. That kind of looks like the polyps of the mother colony at the LFS.

----
*The RS LED90 is designed to give 500 PAR at 100% at the top center of the tank, but 180 PAR at the bottom near where I have this guy. And I was running it at 30% power, so I estimate it should be under 60PAR. I just followed another member's advise to raise the par and switched the LED90 to 50% in acclimation mode starting 85% for the next seven days. Does that make sense?

 

[ESamson]

Favite, yes. That's what I meant. I thought both Favias and Favites were available in the hobby and I was having trouble ID-ing it. But if Favias not available, then it should be a Favite. Also, I thought it was doing ok, but I just found this today: Is that three dead spots in the center? And the mouths have been gaping quite a bit for the past couple of days. I'll open a Favite post, but if anything useful comes to mind to you, thanks in advance!

Here's a photo of my happy Duncan after a couple of weeks in the tank. It came with two polyps but it's got now 5 more, three medium ones and two mini/tiny ones. It's crazy! My other LFS store advised me to feed him the pellets I feed my shrimp and snails, and it loved them and started growing since I started feeding it. This is what leads me to believe that light and water shouldn't be so bad, but maybe they are for the leather?

 

[ESamson]

Here's a photo of my happy Duncan after a couple of weeks in the tank. It came with two polyps but it's got now 5 more, three medium ones and two mini/tiny ones. It's crazy! My other LFS store advised me to feed him the pellets I feed my shrimp and snails, and it loved them and started growing since I started feeding it. This is what leads me to believe that light and water shouldn't be so bad, but maybe they are for the leather?

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Thanks. Those look beautiful!

That makes sense. It's not under 500 PAR, though, it was more like 60PAR. Sorry if my writing was confusing.* So it's definitely not under too much light, it wold seem. Right? Or if you can think of something else, let me know.

Thanks for sharing a photo of those amazing leathers. That kind of looks like the polyps of the mother colony at the LFS.

----
*The RS LED90 is designed to give 500 PAR at 100% at the top center of the tank, but 180 PAR at the bottom near where I have this guy. And I was running it at 30% power, so I estimate it should be under 60PAR. I just followed another member's advise to raise the par and switched the LED90 to 50% in acclimation mode starting 85% for the next seven days. Does that make sense?

Very cool. Also leathers shut down periodically to shed algae buildup. A month seems a bit long? Also your coral dip: is there an expiration date on it. Maybe something to look at. Once ran into someone who dosed “Algae Fix” killed all the fish. We looked at the expiration date. Over 2 years. We couldn’t be sure but that was my conclusion.

 

[MaxTremors]

Favite, yes. That's what I meant. I thought both Favias and Favites were available in the hobby and I was having trouble ID-ing it. But if Favias not available, then it should be a Favite. Also, I thought it was doing ok, but I just found this today: Is that three dead spots in the center? And the mouths have been gaping quite a bit for the past couple of days. I'll open a Favite post, but if anything useful comes to mind to you, thanks in advance!

It looks like it’s got some dead spots/tissue recession in the middle. Also it might be a Platygyra. When I said there are no Favias in the hobby, what I meant is that there have been a lot of reclassifications, there are now only two species in the Favia genus, and they are both Caribbean species, there is no stony coral collection in the Caribbean. All of the corals commonly sold as ‘Favias’ are generally either Goniastrea, Dipsastrea, Coelastrea, Favites, or Platygyra (there are s few other genera, but those are the most common).

 

[ESamson]

So it seems the best was a foot amputation for the sarcophyton as the white kept creeping upwards towards the capitulum. The patient seems to be doing well and recovering. Here he is in his hospital bed. If you want to send flowers, he's in the Main Display Tank ICU, rubble pyrex #1. I'm planning to see it either attach his stump to one of the rocks, or form a scar that I can glue down to a rock later on (let me know if that's a bad plan; I'm a total neophyte). Any pro tips always welcome. I'm actually kind of glad I'm getting rid of that rock. That little aiptaisia-looking stinker kept popping up in different places and laughing at me and hiding again.

 

[ESamson]

Very cool. Also leathers shut down periodically to shed algae buildup. A month seems a bit long? Also your coral dip: is there an expiration date on it. Maybe something to look at. Once ran into someone who dosed “Algae Fix” killed all the fish. We looked at the expiration date. Over 2 years. We couldn’t be sure but that was my conclusion.

It's not like it's 100% shut down, but those polyps look like baby polyps in comparison to the long ones he was displaying and swaying at the store. It was even hosting clowns. It was offered to me because I was asking for alternatives to anemones to try and hopefully host my pair of clownfish (currently hosted by my powerhead). This mother colony was hosting clownfish at the store. So they offered to cut one of the branches for me. *

That's a good point and something to keep an eye on. I certainly will, the expiration dates. The dip I'd used when introducing it was one of those single dose sachets from the LFS (photo attached). Doesn't have an expiration date, I just assume it was fresh. The guys there offered it to me when I asked them about dipping. I wasn't able to find an ingredient list anywhere either; I don't like using products that don't list their ingredients and it kind of smells like terpentine anyway, so I feel much better with the iodine dip. I now have some Seachem Reef Dip and Reef Iodide for the surgery I just did on it.

--- Disclaimer: I promise I'm not in the Walt Disney clownfish hype. LOL. I've been into clownfish and anemones since I learned about them in high school biology in the late 80s and my first saltwater animals were an anemone and a seahorse in the 1990s before I took a break from the hobby for almost 30 years. Yes, I had no clue what I was doing back then. They lasted me quite a bit, surprisingly, though. But I digress...

 

[Glenner’sreef]

So relieved for patient’s results and the surgeon’s steady hand!!! So getting into the very tiny almost invisible mind of your sarco, I’m guessing “attaching” the newly cut flesh to a piece of rock would give this stressed animal a sense of home and stability. Once it firmly attaches (a few days-a week) it may just come completely out of its reefunk and bring you the joy that you paid for $$$$$!