Treating Velvet in Display?
- Thread starter dopey
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Joined
- May 7, 2018
- Messages
- 348
- Reaction score
- 928
Even a big plastic tub is better than treating in your system. I understand that you can absorb the copper (though this also gives me pause), but the contamination risk for moving the velvet back and forth is super high.
Remember you’ll need a 6 week fallow period for any wet stuff (rock/coral, etc) that you want to continue to utilize.
Your plan to start right away in the bucket is better than the sump. What about a brute can until you can get a QT?
Remember you’ll need a 6 week fallow period for any wet stuff (rock/coral, etc) that you want to continue to utilize.
Your plan to start right away in the bucket is better than the sump. What about a brute can until you can get a QT?
OP
OP
The QT has begun. Have had some losses, but the remaining ones all are all acting completely 'normal'.
Two spotted surgeon fish
1 Clown
a pair of cardinals
The best meds I could find was a german brand called munster for dealing with velvette. I've followed the dosing instructions, and per the ingredients it does include copper.
I appreciate everyone's comments and feedback. It is really difficult figuring out the best path forward.
You can find a very long thread here about folks having success not only treating their DT but even leaving good amount of rock (without corals/inverts) during this, and subsequently absorbing the copper with filters and having a successful reef -- with pictures to proof it.
You can also find threads of folks claiming even the silicone in a tank can absorb copper, and thus a tank which was ever in the same room as a bottle of copper can never be used as a reef.
You also find folks talking of old days of adding copper direct in DT with inverts and such.
I imagine all would agree the most optimal solution is a dedicated QT with proper equipment, tools, and experience doing it etc.. But for many that option just isn't feasible, nor do I have the experience. In my case, we live in an apartment. Trying to find a place for another adequate size tank just doesn't work unfortunately. Using buckets gave me anxiety from monitoring, noticing a degradation in health, to will the cat get curious. Using the display keeps it visible, and more likely to spot an issue and be able to correct it. Keeping some of the rock keeps the bio filter going. Not moving them minimized stress which I believe is a major factor to a healthy immune system. Maybe it was the wrong choice, but that was my thought process :-/
I am quite nervous about using my DT as QT but all other ideas gave me more anxiety than using my DT. I have also kept some of the rock in the DT, and will dispose of it after. I understand it can be absorbed, but i'm also worried about ammonia spikes by setting up a completely sterile QT. As well, the added stress of the fish changing environment into new water, etc, if that could actually cause harm/impact to their immune system thus allowing velvet to take them out. Since they are all acting healthy now -- tho I can see 'dust' on them, felt minimal stress to conduct treatment the better.
As of now the corals+inverts are all in a second, much smaller, tank. I will do minimal maintenance on that tank and not use the same tools. Any tool which enters the copper tank will be disposed of after the 6 weeks.
The fish only tank is roughly 100L and been dosed per instructions. My local LFS hopefully will have a copper test in by tomorrow for me(Got lucky they were ordering kits today). It'll be salifert, I will probably order a hannah online anyway, but having a kit by the weekend is prio.
the current plan:
Continue dosing per instructions and begin testing copper.
Observe and cross my fingers.
During 6 weeks begin curing replacement dry rock
At the end of 6 weeks:
Make a *ton* of water.
Remove fish to temporary buckets and completely drain the display tank.
Clean/wipe entire tank and refill 100% NSW
Introduce fish back to tank
Begin testing copper. Once 0 for 3+ days can begin reintroducing inverts/corals.
I'm not trying to go against good advice here, just trying to point out the challenge with internet. You get *allot* of advice and can go down a rabbit thread on ever nugget of advice. It is difficult to understand which advice come from personal experience, and which advice is someone repeating information they formerly read trying to be helpful. I found reassurance in reading stories of others who provided pictures and proof before, during, after the process.
Thanks again for all the advice. I'll do an update as this progresses and hopefully I haven't made the worst decision possible. Fingers crossed the remainers survive -- The two spotted surgeon fish is my absolute favorite in the tank.
Two spotted surgeon fish
1 Clown
a pair of cardinals
The best meds I could find was a german brand called munster for dealing with velvette. I've followed the dosing instructions, and per the ingredients it does include copper.
I appreciate everyone's comments and feedback. It is really difficult figuring out the best path forward.
You can find a very long thread here about folks having success not only treating their DT but even leaving good amount of rock (without corals/inverts) during this, and subsequently absorbing the copper with filters and having a successful reef -- with pictures to proof it.
You can also find threads of folks claiming even the silicone in a tank can absorb copper, and thus a tank which was ever in the same room as a bottle of copper can never be used as a reef.
You also find folks talking of old days of adding copper direct in DT with inverts and such.
I imagine all would agree the most optimal solution is a dedicated QT with proper equipment, tools, and experience doing it etc.. But for many that option just isn't feasible, nor do I have the experience. In my case, we live in an apartment. Trying to find a place for another adequate size tank just doesn't work unfortunately. Using buckets gave me anxiety from monitoring, noticing a degradation in health, to will the cat get curious. Using the display keeps it visible, and more likely to spot an issue and be able to correct it. Keeping some of the rock keeps the bio filter going. Not moving them minimized stress which I believe is a major factor to a healthy immune system. Maybe it was the wrong choice, but that was my thought process :-/
I am quite nervous about using my DT as QT but all other ideas gave me more anxiety than using my DT. I have also kept some of the rock in the DT, and will dispose of it after. I understand it can be absorbed, but i'm also worried about ammonia spikes by setting up a completely sterile QT. As well, the added stress of the fish changing environment into new water, etc, if that could actually cause harm/impact to their immune system thus allowing velvet to take them out. Since they are all acting healthy now -- tho I can see 'dust' on them, felt minimal stress to conduct treatment the better.
As of now the corals+inverts are all in a second, much smaller, tank. I will do minimal maintenance on that tank and not use the same tools. Any tool which enters the copper tank will be disposed of after the 6 weeks.
The fish only tank is roughly 100L and been dosed per instructions. My local LFS hopefully will have a copper test in by tomorrow for me(Got lucky they were ordering kits today). It'll be salifert, I will probably order a hannah online anyway, but having a kit by the weekend is prio.
the current plan:
Continue dosing per instructions and begin testing copper.
Observe and cross my fingers.
During 6 weeks begin curing replacement dry rock
At the end of 6 weeks:
Make a *ton* of water.
Remove fish to temporary buckets and completely drain the display tank.
Clean/wipe entire tank and refill 100% NSW
Introduce fish back to tank
Begin testing copper. Once 0 for 3+ days can begin reintroducing inverts/corals.
I'm not trying to go against good advice here, just trying to point out the challenge with internet. You get *allot* of advice and can go down a rabbit thread on ever nugget of advice. It is difficult to understand which advice come from personal experience, and which advice is someone repeating information they formerly read trying to be helpful. I found reassurance in reading stories of others who provided pictures and proof before, during, after the process.
Thanks again for all the advice. I'll do an update as this progresses and hopefully I haven't made the worst decision possible. Fingers crossed the remainers survive -- The two spotted surgeon fish is my absolute favorite in the tank.
Malifry97
Valuable Member
One point. You don’t have to worry about silicone wuth the copper. It won’t absorb it. Just drains the tank when doing and wipe everything thoroughly with vinegar.
Halal Hotdog
Valuable Member
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2017
- Messages
- 1,493
- Reaction score
- 1,881
Yes copper does kill inverts and corals, that's why those could be moved to a holding tank while you treat. They can also be moved to a friends QT tank for holding. If leaning property the coral and inverts do not have to harbor any parasites. The issue OP has is only having buckets for fish treatment, which is a very difficult way to treat fish and requires testing multiple buckets for therapeutic levels of copper.
Malifry97
Valuable Member
live rock will also absorb copper and throw readings off. Im not here to argue. but you simply will ruin live rock and have a hard time dosing copper if you leave the rock in.
Marc88
Active Member
How has the process been? I've run unto a similar situation with Ich and am weighing out options. Fortunately for me it's not velvet so I have more time to come up with a solution.
OP
OP
I put the tanks back together a couple weeks ago.
The 4 fish which were alive when I started the QT survived the entire time. They all actually looked quite healthy at the start of QT -- Quite odd how other fish died so fast but some seemed relatively unaffected.
I couldn't get pure copper to dose to the recommended level. I only could find a medicine which contained copper (Some german brand). I wasn't comfortable overdosing it to reach R2R recommended levels, so I simply followed the dosing instructions of the medicine.
I also dos'd bacteria in a bottle throughout, as a safeguard. Never noticed ammonia and fish all behaved fine.
At the end of the 6 weeks I completely drained the DT and refilled it with 100% new water. I also threw away the larger rock and rubble that was in the DT during the time. I had a new piece of LR curing during the 6 weeks in a bucket. Since this upgrade was recently done still had a box of leftover rock to make a new scape from
Full disclaimer; I didn't do really any maintenance during the 6 weeks. I didn't want to risk x-contamination. Didn't do any water changes on the coral tank for example.
All corals have been opening up and seem to be responding positively since the tanks were reconnected. Inverts are also still alive.
Only negative is the medicine stained the silicone blue! There is a distinct light blue color on the silicone on the display tank now. This is a peninsula style tank so I had clear silicone to make it look as open/transparent as possible. It now has a blue glow to it with lights :X
For now i'd say it was completely successful. There is some photos in my build thread as I put things back together if you're curious!
The 4 fish which were alive when I started the QT survived the entire time. They all actually looked quite healthy at the start of QT -- Quite odd how other fish died so fast but some seemed relatively unaffected.
I couldn't get pure copper to dose to the recommended level. I only could find a medicine which contained copper (Some german brand). I wasn't comfortable overdosing it to reach R2R recommended levels, so I simply followed the dosing instructions of the medicine.
I also dos'd bacteria in a bottle throughout, as a safeguard. Never noticed ammonia and fish all behaved fine.
At the end of the 6 weeks I completely drained the DT and refilled it with 100% new water. I also threw away the larger rock and rubble that was in the DT during the time. I had a new piece of LR curing during the 6 weeks in a bucket. Since this upgrade was recently done still had a box of leftover rock to make a new scape from
Full disclaimer; I didn't do really any maintenance during the 6 weeks. I didn't want to risk x-contamination. Didn't do any water changes on the coral tank for example.
All corals have been opening up and seem to be responding positively since the tanks were reconnected. Inverts are also still alive.
Only negative is the medicine stained the silicone blue! There is a distinct light blue color on the silicone on the display tank now. This is a peninsula style tank so I had clear silicone to make it look as open/transparent as possible. It now has a blue glow to it with lights :X
For now i'd say it was completely successful. There is some photos in my build thread as I put things back together if you're curious!
Marc88
Active Member
I took a read. Very nice work! I like to see your personal success it getting your tank back together.
I'm tossing up the idea of just dosing copper in the DT with the rock. If I'm not able to remove the copper without leaching, then I'll just replace the rock. Or replace the rock anyway and still dose cooper in the DT. I have far too many fish to put them all in QT. I'll post a thread asking for advise later.
I'm tossing up the idea of just dosing copper in the DT with the rock. If I'm not able to remove the copper without leaching, then I'll just replace the rock. Or replace the rock anyway and still dose cooper in the DT. I have far too many fish to put them all in QT. I'll post a thread asking for advise later.
OP
OP
When I went down this rabbit hole it was filled with opinions ranging from: "A tank that's ever had a drop of copper in it can never be used as a reef ever again" to.. "Back in my day we dosed copper straight into the tank with inverts/corals". Very few of these statements were linked to any build thread or experience thread highlighting either the success or utter failure...... Which I think is a challenge here of people with good intentions offering advice that they merely read elsewhere and are repeating, which ultimately becomes 'truth'. Not from personal experience, and rarely with accompanied information/proof of said experience. (no offense to anyone )
I ultimately found a thread of someone who had done dosed coper in his DT (After removing inverts/corals) and successfully reconnected it. He had sand and rock and used types of media to ensure he got rid of any leaching.
Given my tank was barebottom, and replacing rock was not a problem for me.. I just for the life of me could not imagine how glass/silicone could absorb then leach copper and went with it.
The only issue I had, which I didn't find anyone warning about, was the staining of the silicone. I can't say whether I like it or dislike how it looks now, but it is noticeable. It's a bit like a white tshirt with a blacklight.. The dying of the silicone when the lights on is very noticeable. I can't decide if it's a nice 'accent' to the tank, or an eyesore.
If I had to do it over again, the staining of the silicone be my main concern. When I put the tanks back together all corals were unhappy (due to me not doing maintenance and caulerpa going insane), and since reconnecting all corals have improved every day.
If I had to do it again, I'd either use my DT as I did.. or try to secure a temporary glass tank and bribe my partner to let me set it up temporarily somewhere in the apartment... but that be to avoid the staining, not due to any health issues of the fish/corals/inverts.
Only regret I have from the entire experience was not moving faster. I was quite nervous every step of the way which delayed the setup of the DT. Had I done these actions the first evening, i'd of had less deaths.
I'm not an expert, just a dude with a reef, trying to piece together information from this forum/experiences to navigate this hobby Ultimately I had found someone who took a similar path as me and succeeded and chose to follow that path, instead of people declaring statements but not either saying 'this happened to me', or better yet 'here is a thread detailing my experience'.
Good luck!
)I ultimately found a thread of someone who had done dosed coper in his DT (After removing inverts/corals) and successfully reconnected it. He had sand and rock and used types of media to ensure he got rid of any leaching.
Given my tank was barebottom, and replacing rock was not a problem for me.. I just for the life of me could not imagine how glass/silicone could absorb then leach copper and went with it.
The only issue I had, which I didn't find anyone warning about, was the staining of the silicone. I can't say whether I like it or dislike how it looks now, but it is noticeable. It's a bit like a white tshirt with a blacklight.. The dying of the silicone when the lights on is very noticeable. I can't decide if it's a nice 'accent' to the tank, or an eyesore.
If I had to do it over again, the staining of the silicone be my main concern. When I put the tanks back together all corals were unhappy (due to me not doing maintenance and caulerpa going insane), and since reconnecting all corals have improved every day.
If I had to do it again, I'd either use my DT as I did.. or try to secure a temporary glass tank and bribe my partner to let me set it up temporarily somewhere in the apartment... but that be to avoid the staining, not due to any health issues of the fish/corals/inverts.
Only regret I have from the entire experience was not moving faster. I was quite nervous every step of the way which delayed the setup of the DT. Had I done these actions the first evening, i'd of had less deaths.
I'm not an expert, just a dude with a reef, trying to piece together information from this forum/experiences to navigate this hobby
Ultimately I had found someone who took a similar path as me and succeeded and chose to follow that path, instead of people declaring statements but not either saying 'this happened to me', or better yet 'here is a thread detailing my experience'.Good luck!
Similar threads
