UPC/Backup batteries

[Goodair]

Has anyone tried the:
"AmazonBasics Standby UPS 800VA 450W" as a emergency backup. 6 backup outlets and 6 regular so it covers most equiptment I'd use.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B073Q3BSPG/ref=ox_sc_act_image_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

regular:
1.Heater
2.backup heater
3. uv sterilizer
4. return pump
5.ato
6. leds

backup:
1.wavemakers (will give some hours on this @5w per wavemaker)
2-6.empty

If anyone uses another UPC, which one and how has it been?

 

[SomethingfishyPKNY]

Has anyone tried the:
"AmazonBasics Standby UPS 800VA 450W" as a emergency backup. 6 backup outlets and 6 regular so it covers most equiptment I'd use.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B073Q3BSPG/ref=ox_sc_act_image_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

regular:
1.Heater
2.backup heater
3. uv sterilizer
4. return pump
5.ato
6. leds

backup:
1.wavemakers (will give some hours on this @5w per wavemaker)
2-6.empty

If anyone uses another UPC, which one and how has it been?

I've never used any backup other than a generator so I'm going to follow this because I'd live to know more about it. Thanks for the question

 

[Goodair]

The biggest question really is how it does in a humid area (sump cabinet). There are ones that can run a return pump for a bit but are very costly. This seems great as a surge protector and to keep the water oxinated if im asleep or stuck in work. The only major complaint i see is you need to reset it after a power outage which shouldn't even be something to complain about.
Really for 50 bucks its worth experimenting as a surge protector with a lil juice backup!

Edit: skimmer would be connected instead of lights, they would have a seperate outlet.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Here is a problem with all Battery backups - They are designed for certain power load and they can deliver that power for relatively short period of time. At very low loads (like the 5W mentioned for the wavemaker) they will not run a very long time.

In other words if the load was 500W and the unit was designed to run for 10 minutes (generally speaking enough time for shut tings down properly) at 5W it's NOT going to run for 1000 minutes.

Conversion from battery voltage, usually 12-48V depending on the unit, up to 120V is very inefficient. At low loads the unit doesn't "sip" from batteries.

Then there is a problem with pure sinewave on the output side; most low end units don't supply that - this problem is less severe with DC pumps but can destroy sensitive electronics like controllers etc. This BTW applies to both Battery backup units and generators.

That said, I have a pair of very good APC units (expensive but can be found on ebay for relatively cheap) which give me about 3-6 hours of run time of return pump and all powerheads. I hope someone can connect the generator while these are getting drained. I also get remove notifications when power is lost and updates on battery status remotely.

To answer Goodair: they don't handle salty humid air well at all and I've had one go up in smoke with small drip of S/W, they are best installed remotely.

 

[Goodair]

Thankyou for the information!
What units are you using and would mounting it on the outside of the cabinet be sufficient?

 

[Goodair]

Here is a problem with all Battery backups - They are designed for certain power load and they can deliver that power for relatively short period of time. At very low loads (like the 5W mentioned for the wavemaker) they will not run a very long time.

In other words if the load was 500W and the unit was designed to run for 10 minutes (generally speaking enough time for shut tings down properly) at 5W it's NOT going to run for 1000 minutes.

Then there is a problem with pure sinewave on the output side; most low end units don't supply that - this problem is less severe with DC pumps but can destroy sensitive electronics like controllers etc. This BTW applies to both Battery backup units and generators.

What kind of specs are required for running just wavemakers for a few hours. We get power outages from time to time during heavy storms so they dont have to last all that long. If it's bad, I got a generator I use for the house sump and some other essentials.
Also is there some kind of converter to attach to the generator to not ruin some of the equiptment?

 

[rkpetersen]

That will definitely help, especially at that price you could get a couple of them and still spend less than on an APC or CyberPower UPS. (I used APC for my computers for years, but more recently everything is on CyberPower.)

It's very hard to say how much time you'll get off any particular device and any particular setup. It might be less than 30 minutes or a few hours. Also as pointed out above, there's no inverse law for wattage used versus runtime. Best way is to set it up and then test it. Most devices have some way to give you a remaining runtime estimate once they're actually supplying power. Or you can just wait until the die, while keeping track of the time.

As far as clean power, the quality and cost of the UPS or generator will often determine how close to sinewave AC they're able to generate. For example, standard gasoline powered generators may not provide the cleanest power. We used one for years during power outages at our house, and some devices didn't like it much, particularly when fed through a UPS which would get outraged at the dirty power being fed to it. But with a whole home standby generator, which is a much more capable device all together, during a power outage everything responds as if it's still normal line power coming through.

 

[Goodair]

It's very hard to say how much time you'll get off any particular device and any particular setup. It might be less than 30 minutes or a few hours. Also as pointed out above, there's no inverse law for wattage used versus runtime. Best way is to set it up and then test it. Most devices have some way to give you a remaining runtime estimate once they're actually supplying power. Or you can just wait until the die, while keeping track of the time.

I was looking at a chart from some UPS few days ago, the runtime exponentially decays with smaller demands. Its really no way close to linear and Im assuming all ups are the same.
I might gamble with this or one from APC and give it a test run to see how it does.
I'd rather fry a wave maker, not using high end ones, than have my stocking die or get really stressed out.

I will keep everyone posted on the test run.

 

[laverda]

If you keep your eyes open you can find much bigger UPSs for less. I actually bought a new 1500AH one for less.
One way to make any UPS last longer is to bypass the inverter to run things like 12 or 24 volt pumps. The reason this helps a lot is there is a lot of waste converting 12 or 24 volts DC to 120 volts AC and then back to 12 or 24 volts DC again. You just need a relay and the appropriate connector for your pump. Tunze sells the safety connector (relay) which make it very easy to set up this way. Just hook up the correct size male plug to the battery of the UPS and plug it in to the emergancy relay and plug the relay into the Tunze pump. The safety connector should be easy to adopt for other pumps, but it is just a relay in a box with connector cables.
You can also replace the battery with a larger one to run your pump longer.

 

[Goodair]

If you keep your eyes open you can find much bigger UPSs for less. I actually bought a new 1500AH one for less.
One way to make any UPS last longer is to bypass the inverter to run things like 12 or 24 volt pumps. The reason this helps a lot is there is a lot of waste converting 12 or 24 volts DC to 120 volts AC and then back to 12 or 24 volts DC again. You just need a relay and the appropriate connector for your pump. Tunze sells the safety connector (relay) which make it very easy to set up this way. Just hook up the correct size male plug to the battery of the UPS and plug it in to the emergancy relay and plug the relay into the Tunze pump. The safety connector should be easy to adopt for other pumps, but it is just a relay in a box with connector cables.
You can also replace the battery with a larger one to run your pump longer.

Pump I run in my 90g is a mag12 (ac), so its not as efficient and will drain relatively quick compared to only wavemakers. I've read good things about dc pumps and will go with em once I upgrade to a bigger tank in future!
I'm just trying to minimize as much failure at a reasonable cost. I'm new to this hobby so the fish im getting will be more forgiving along with soft corals.

 

[laverda]

One DC flow pump near the surface will run for a fairly long time set up this way. I can easily get a couple days out of mine. Your mag drive may not even run on a cheep UPS like that. If it does it will run hot and drain the battery very rapidly. Most AC pumps require a full sine wave inverter to run without heating issues. Generally full sine wave UPS only come in 1500 amp hour or larger UPSs.
Why such a big pump on a 90 gallon. That is a lot of electricity to run for a tank that size.

 

[Goodair]

One DC flow pump near the surface will run for a fairly long time set up this way. I can easily get a couple days out of mine. Your mag drive may not even run on a cheep UPS like that. If it does it will run hot and drain the battery very rapidly. Most AC pumps require a full sine wave inverter to run without heating issues. Generally full sine wave UPS only come in 1500 amp hour or larger UPSs.
Why such a big pump on a 90 gallon. That is a lot of electricity to run for a tank that size.

Thats why im only connecting the wave makers 5W dc. It is more than suffucient to keep the tank alive as long as it the ambient temperature isnt dropping quickly.

 

[Goodair]

mag 12 is giving 840ish gph, I've been told to size your pump 8-10x your tank size.

 

[Goodair]

With the information everyone has mentioned, I did a lil more digging and found this two different ones for ~$100 MSRP:
CyberSurge ST900U

APC BE650G1:

 

[Tastee]

mag 12 is giving 840ish gph, I've been told to size your pump 8-10x your tank size.

BRS have a good video on this topic. 8-10x target is total water turnover, not just return. If you are running wavemakers or other circulators (e.g. MP10s or MP40s) then that is part of your turnover. The BRS guys tests seem to indicate that too high a return flow is not that good as it reduces the contact time for bacteria etc.

I get about 40% of my turnover from my return and the rest from my Gyre wavemaker.

 

[Goodair]

Think I found the video your talking about:

Seems the 8-10 is outdated and 3-5 for sump flow is the recommended number. Wish I saw this vid beforehand but it is what it is, most of the bacteria will be on the liverock and sand in the display tank so hopefully doesn't hurt. This was a good thing to pick up, although this is off-topic from this post.

I will order the CyberSurge ST900U for $70 and follow up after giving it a test run.

Thank you all for the good info and hopefully people with the same question can pick up some answers from this post!

 

[BZOFIQ]

I will order the CyberSurge ST900U for $70 and follow up after giving it a test run.

!

I am very eager to see the real life results of your tests vs. estimates/graphs provided.

 

[BZOFIQ]

What units are you using and would mounting it on the outside of the cabinet be sufficient?

I use 2 x APC SMT-1500 mounted remotely.

Yes, outside the cabinet is sufficient, just not directly next to it so you dont have splashing water dripping on the unit as you take your hands out of your tank.

 

[Goodair]

Cybersurge ST900U UPS finally came in yesterday and charged overnight!

Disconnected today and plugged in my 5W wavemaker. It gave me roughly 390 minutes (6h30m) of runtime compared to thier 469 minutes. About a hour off but still a good chunk of time. I had nothing plugged into the non backup outlets and am unsure if that will drop the runetime even more.

It has a periodical alarm and then starts to beep at a high interval after the battery was halfway out. You can turn off the alarm by holding the start button.

Hope this is info is useful for anyone looking into this option.

 

[BZOFIQ]

UPS finally came in yesterday and charged overnight!

Disconnected today and plugged in my 5W wavemaker. It gave me roughly 6h 30m of runtime compared to thier 469min.

That was expected.